Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
Not the Eye
....Phenomenal
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
for Craftsman.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
for Pete.
Writeup for Simon Chord:
- Open Windows: Simon Chord is a psychopathic cyberterrorist who uses his abilities to trick Nick Chambers into working with him to spy on Jill Goddard, as well as electrocuting and tying up her agent, Tony. When Nick starts questioning him, Chord threatens Nick by showing video footage of Nick's crimes, saying he could easily show this to the police if Nick tries to pull the plug. Chord then directs Nick to near Jill's house, and has Nick send a hack that will allow him to communicate with Jill through her laptop. From there, Chord has the unconscious Tony as a hostage, and zaps him with increasing electric shocks to force Jill to strip, using Nick to relay his commands. Chord then storms in and kidnaps her. Chord then orchestrates the death of several SWAT teams by luring them to Jill's house and then blowing it up with a bomb he planted in Jill's bedroom. He then leads a car chase that endangers mutiple civilians and cops. It is then revealed that despite others thinking Chord was a notorious master hacker named Nevada, Chord actually tricked and killed Nevada to get his servers. Chord then kills Nick, and uses Jill's stripping webcam to trick millions of people into watching a livestream of her death.
Caesar
- Inheritance: "Morgan Warner" presents himself as a sympathetic victim, but he is revealed to be a "pure evil" monster named Carson. A former business associate of Archer Monroe, Carson was a Serial Rapist who considered drugging women into the bedroom to be his "ace in the hole". When he raped Archer's wife Catherine, Carson was attacked by Archer with intent to kill him; Carson took advantage of their conflict wounding a young man in a vehicular accident by killing the man so he could blackmail Archer with the death. Though locked in a bunker for 30 years by Archer as punishment for his crimes, Carson manages to poison Archer and manipulate his daughter Lauren into sympathizing with and releasing him. Carson promptly murders several innocent people, forces Catherine to recount her rape to Lauren, and reveals his plan to leave Lauren and Catherine to slowly die in the bunker while he ruins the lives of the rest of their family. Carson then uses his last words to spitefully hurt Lauren by claiming she is his daughter from his rape of Catherine.
- Black And Blue: Terry Malone and his subordinate Smitty are a pair of corrupt narcotics officers who secretly run a city-wide outfit of abusive law enforcement agents. Through their network, they head up countless extortions and fabrications of evidence, as well as cover up police brutality. When their corruption is close to being exposed, Malone and Smitty begin tying up loose ends, killing a group of young unarmed drug dealers so as to frame a rival gang for the slaying and initiate a street war that will wipe out connections to them. When rookie officer West accidentally catches the triple execution on film, Malone frames her as the murderer and sics cops and gangsters on her to kill her. Malone leads a police squad to ambush and kill Darius's entire gang when Darius learns the truth of the murders, while Smitty kills one of their allies out of petty spite. Smitty then guns another innocent cop down just for standing in his way.
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Craftsman
Arthur
I'm likely gonna be away for some days. My grandpa died today and I'm helping my family to deal with the aftermath. Good luck guys!
Watch me destroying my country
Unofficial co-Wiki Curator for Magnificent Bastard
Craftsman
Sorry to hear about that Kazuya! Hope things turn out for the better.
MB Pending | MB Drafts | MB Dates
Parallel writeup
Little Red Memories: The Parallel is a cruel living dimension that drags those at the worst point in their lives into themselves to feed on them and their despair while putting them through deadly games to humor themselves. Trapping Bonnie after she remembers her grandmother, they put her through a series of deadly where in one of them she is force to win a quiz which blames her for all the sorrow in her family.
Only letting her and Hunter go when they no longer provide the taste of despair they consume, it shows that itself as a begin that will toy with people as their food for their own entertainment.
"The Juice is Loose."
Yes to Cratsman but no to Pete.
My condolences Kazuya.
Edited by Bullman on Sep 19th 2023 at 8:38:06 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
A Girl, Just One of Many Kinds
Alrighty try this on for size. Pretty short one.
This from CG5’s song based on the found footage game Amanda the Adventurer, called “You’re the Answer”.
Who Are They? What Do They Do?
The Demon, Paimon (referred to The Pie Man by Amanda; shown to be the butcher himself) is effectively the singer of the song, taking control of Amanda pretty quickly into the song and starting to get violent, as Wooly attempts to sway control. It’s shown, like in the fashion of the game, Paimon is keeping both the child Amanda and Wooly (who he claims that he wasn’t a sheep before) into a nightmarish hell of psychological and presumably physical torture (with a line by the actual Amanda describing being in her hell), and is responsible for mass kidnapping children through the TV (as the music video shows four children disappearing). Wooly attempts to warn the player of what’s happening, but The Demon immediately and by the end of the song, Paimon takes full control of Amanda, wasting no time murdering Wooly in cold blood before coming out of the game to eat the viewer, presumably Riley.
Mitigating Factors?
Get a clear enough story from the song considering it’s a full animated music video with a plot coherent enough to count, although short lol. Paimon himself is shown to have a full personality of being a violent and sadistic, with it being fully they are the one singing by the end of the song as they murder Wooly and then eat the viewer.
Heinous Standard?
Like the game, is responsible for the mass kidnapping of children (heavily likely to be stuck on the meathooks behind the butcher), are responsible for the tormented hell like nightmare Amanda and Wooly (who is apparently was a human himself also trapped in the show) are in, and in the end takes full control of Amanda and murders both Wooly and The Viewer.
Verdict?
Leave it up to you.
Keep Fighting. Keep Loving.
Lizzid people!
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
That's actually from JT Music not CG5. Leaning towards a yes for Paimon.
Calling discussion for Exorcist: Believer.
Edited by AustinDR on Sep 19th 2023 at 7:25:16 AM
HAIL PAIMON!
Deepest condolences, Kazuya.
Man in the Yellow Hat
to Paimon.
May your grandfather Rest in Peace, Kazuya.
He/Him
Rejected UAC Marine
to Paimon.
to the Smaug quote, but I have a question; was Smaug himself approved earlier? Can't seem to find his EP Never mind I found it. My bad ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
May your grandpa rest easy Kazuya. Take your time man, we'll be wishing the best for you
Edited by ImSpidey2 on Sep 19th 2023 at 11:50:14 AM
That being said, I have no source.
May your grandfather rest in peace Kazuya
I’m plotting my schemes wherever I go! They’re perfect in every way…
to Paimon
My deepest condolences Kazuya
Together, we are one.
Not the Eye
to Paimon
My deep condolences Kazuya.
Condolences, Kazuya. TT_TT
Paimon, and I would like to announce my intent to reserve Marvel's Spider-Man 2 for discussion.
Edited by Arawn999 on Sep 20th 2023 at 12:02:10 PM
Unofficial co-Wiki Curator for Magnificent Bastard
Paimon, our emergency food.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
@Arawn 999 Do you mind if we collab on that one. I've been looking forward to that game for a long time.
Edited by Michealthehero21 on Sep 20th 2023 at 4:05:00 AM
No EP, just asking why a few characters aren't already on the CM list.
- Thanos: How many redeeming qualities does he have to disqualify him? He supposedly loves Gamora that he grieves for her death, but if it didn't stop him sacrificing her in the first place for his ambitions, then it shouldn't disqualify him from being a CM. It would make him the same as Ego. Speaking of "ego", Thanos is clearly a Not-So-Well-Intentioned Extremist rather than a genuine Well-Intentioned Extremist, since wiping out half the universe is clearly about proving his own ideas right (about how to solve overpopulation, if he DIDN'T have the luxury to make reality whatever he wanted) and thinking that the remaining half would be grateful to him.
- Senator Armstrong: Same as Thanos, he's more of a Not-So-Well-Intentioned Extremist rather than a Well-Intentioned Extremist. For all his talk of making a new America free of corruption, he's a blatant Social Darwinist (who doesn't even deny it) whose concern about the well-being of anyone other than himself is heavily questionable. In all likelihood, he's just yet another person who thinks he has an innate right to dominate and lord over everyone else because he has more power. Maybe he isn't as overtly sadistic as someone like Sundowner, but that's not a redeeming quality on its own.
- RWBY: Two of them: Salem and Tyrian. Salem may have been capable of loving someone else once, but clearly threw all that away when she turned against and killed Ozma because he didn't agree with her plans for dominating humanity. She was infused with Grimm essence when she dove into the Pools of Annihilation, but she wasn't born as being Made of Evil, so is that enough to say she has no moral agency? Is being cursed with immortality and being a Death Seeker enough of a Freudian Excuse? If anything, her inability to break the curse by actually understanding the importance of life and death just shows how genuinely evil she is, as she'd sooner kill everyone else before seeing any fault in herself. Tyrian, meanwhile, is Salem's most overtly violent minion, and is the only one who knows her true goal of destroying Remnant. Maybe it seems that his devotion to Salem could count as caring about someone else and disqualify him that way, but him calling Salem "destruction incarnate" suggests that he follows her precisely because of her goal of world destruction, seeing her as an extension of his own bloodthirst, creating a similar situation as Bellatrix and Voldemort, so it's not genuine, unconditional love of another person.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Can't comment on the others, but Thanos is visibly crying about having to kill Gamora.
Ego treated putting a cancerous tumour in Meredith's head as a casual matter-of-fact situation since it would hinder him from becoming the universe.
Edited by WetFlannels on Sep 20th 2023 at 2:00:05 PM
Yes, yes, old boy, we'd like nothing more than to stay and be a part of your primitive, barbaric society, but duty calls, duty calls...
Lies and Violence!
Yeah, Thanos' situation is treated with more nuance than Ego. It's less that he's rejecting his love for Gamora, more so that he loves his mission more than he loves her—but he still genuinely loves her, otherwise the sacrifice wouldn't work. Red Skull, who is a CM, has nothing that he genuinely loves to sacrifice.
Haven't played Metal Gear, so can't comment on Armstrong.
With Salem, I believe it's indicted she still loves her children despite causing their deaths. Tyrian has been discussed a lot before, but we've ultimately agree that he just hasn't done enough to stand out compared to Cinder, Watts, etc.
Yes to Paimon.
EDIT: Here it is:
Edited by Siegfried1337 on Sep 19th 2023 at 4:11:08 AM
MB Pending | MB Drafts | MB Dates