This is a thread for checking up on pages for works that have not been released yet, to make sure that they are not straying into rampant speculation or posting crazy behind the scenes spoilers. You can bring both individual examples or entire pages to attention here.
In extreme cases, any page can be locked, but hopefully that won't be necessary.
(As these pages often are hit with zero-context examples and shoehorning as well, all four - speculation, spoilers, ZCEs, and shoehorning may get addressed simultaneously.)
The policy governing this effort is Creating A Work Page For An Unreleased Work. Cleanup is being tracked using the Unreleased Works sandbox.
All pages for unreleased works should include a %% comment at the top of the page, confirming the policy and linking to this thread and the Administrivia page. It doesn't have to be exactly the same as the example provided here, but this provides a template to work with.
%% Speculative troping is not allowed on TV Tropes.
%%
%% We trope what DOES happen in works, not what MIGHT happen or is LIKELY to happen.
%%
%% For unreleased works where all we have to go on is advertising and other supplemental materials, we have some detailed guidelines, which can be found at Administrivia/CreatingAWorkPageForAnUnreleasedWork.
%%
%% NOTE - these rules also mean that unreleased works should only have one page image, and that image should NOT be changed again until the work is released.
%%
%% If you have questions, please consult the Unreleased Work Speculation Cleanup thread at https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=15514631230A64268600
%%
%% Thank you.
%%
Edited by Mrph1 on Feb 10th 2024 at 8:16:52 PM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Aladdin seems to pass the 3 tropes minimum readily, so keep.
- Adaptational Attractiveness: Marwan Kenzari's Jafar is younger and far more attractive than his Obviously Evil animated counterpart. Speculation
- Adaptational Badass: Iago, of all characters, gets this. While it seems like he’ll just be a regular parrot for most of the movie, the most recent trailer shows that he’ll at one point be transformed into a giant monstrous bird that chases after Aladdin through Agrabah. Speculation.
- Adaptation Expansion:
- While trying to recreate the original story, the film will also focus on different elements that were only glanced at in the first film, like expanding Jasmine's role or giving a backstory to Jafar. Speculation
- Genie actually explains why Exact Words are so important when making a wish, in contrast to the original, whose explanation of wishes was basically what he could not do. Speculation
- Adaptational Modesty:
- Jasmine in the original animated version is famous for wearing an outfit that exposes her midriff. This version wears dresses that cover her midriff up, for conservative and practical reasons; although her main costume is still blue around the chest and beige around the waist to resonate with her original look. Speculation
- The animated Aladdin was bare-chested, only wearing an open vest. This one wears a shirt under his vest. Speculation
- Adaptation Name Change: Prince Achmed of no specified place is renamed Prince Anders of Skanland. Speculation
- Adaptation Species Change: In the original film, the entrance to the Cave of Wonders was the head of a tiger. Here, it seems to be changed to the head of a lion as shown in the teaser trailer. Speculation
- Age Lift: Downplayed. Jafar, who in the original animated feature was theoretically 47 (based on the fact that he was physically based on Conrad Veidt who played a similarly named character at that age), is now being played by Marwan Kenzari, who will be thirty-six by the time the film is released. Speculation, shoehorning
- Aluminum Christmas Trees: The portrayal of the Sultanate of Agrabah as a melting pot of culture is not unlikely, as Egypt, which itself has been a sultanate, has been a melting pot since the days of the pharaohs, with people of every hair and skin color forming the populace. The Indian peacock theme for Jasmine certainly fits in more with Jasmine keeping that in mind. Speculation, ZCE
- Animal Motifs:
- Princess Jasmine's primary outfit has a noticeable peacock theme. Which really lends into her actress' ethnicity as peacocks, elephants and tigers are not indigenous to the Middle East, but rather to India with its tropical climates and jungles. However, if Agrabah is being portrayed as a melting pot it gives a clue of what descent the current royal family might be. Speculation
- More obviously, Jafar has a cobra theme. Speculation
- "Arabian Nights" Days: The film will still be set in the fictional kingdom of Agrabah, inspired by various Middle Eastern kingdoms. The difference between this Agrabah and the old one is the film will try to instill more correct history and culture onto the kingdom to make it more authentic. Speculation
- Bedlah Babe: In addition to her updated wardrobe, Jasmine does also wear her famous red outfit from the animated film.
In this case it makes a greater impact as a demeaning contrast to her more conservative clothes — as opposed to a red version of something she's been wearing throughout the film anyway. Speculation
- Benevolent Genie: Genie takes the time to explain to Aladdin how his wishes could be misinterpreted, and how Exact Words are vital. Speculation
- Canon Foreigner: One of the new characters is a literal foreigner - Prince Anders of Skanland, who seeks Jasmine's hand in marriage. Given the looks of the actor who plays him, Billy Magnussen, and his Scandinavian-sounding name, it seems he's from a fictional Northern European kingdom.note Speculation
- There is also Dalia who is Jasmine's handmaiden and closest best friend. Speculation
- Expy: Anders of Skanland seem to be just a Scandinavian version of the Arabic Achmed of no specified place, being a prince of another kingdom who is seeking Jasmine's hand in marriage. Speculation
- Costume Porn: The outfits look lavish and extravagant, as befits an Arabian fantasy. Speculation
- Exact Words: Aladdin asks Genie to make him a prince, and Genie demonstrates how this request can be twisted by making a prince for Aladdin out of thin air. Speculation
- Giant Flyer: A giant version of Iago can be seen chasing Aladdin and Abu through the marketplace in the official trailer. ZCE - does it fly?
- Le Parkour: Aladdin is a master of the craft. He's able to leap across the rooftops of Agrabah with very little effort, and leaves the pursuing guards in the dust while he's doing it. Speculation
- Large Ham: Genie when he first meets Aladdin. Speculation, ZCE
- Loophole Abuse: Discussed Trope. The Genie points out that "there is a lot of gray area" within a wish. He shows that by summoning an actual prince before them when Aladdin asks if he could "make [him] a prince" Speculation
- MacGuffin: The lamp, obviously. Speculation and ZCE, obviously
- Ms. Fanservice: Once again Jasmine will wear her scarlet slave suit while Jafar’s prisoner, but her dress has more attention to detail such as golden jewellery. Speculation
- Mythology Gag:
- The teaser shows that entrance to the Cave of Wonders is carved into a mountainside, not unlike the cavern from which Aladdin took the lamp in the original story. It's also a reference to the lyric in one of the cut reprises of Arabian Nights, in which the Peddler described their "journey insane through forbidden terrain to a desolate mountain pass." Shoehorning
- The Genie's human disguise is visually inspired by his costume in the Broadway musical, while his general look pays homage to The Thief of Bagdad (1940). Speculation, shoehorning
- During "Friend Like Me" Carpet dances the exact same way in both films." Speculation, shoehorning
- Race Lift: Anders is just a Scandinavian version of Achmed, being a prince seeking Jasmine's hand in marriage. Speculation
- Rebellious Princess: Jasmine, like in the original. She'll even get a whole song to herself talking about how she's limited by her position in society. Speculation
- Role Reprisal: Frank Welker returns as the voice of Abu and the entrance to the Cave of Wonders. Speculation
- Shout-Out:
- At one point Jafar dresses entirely in bright red, the colour he became when he turned into a genie in the original film. Speculation, shoehorning
- Soft-Spoken Sadist: Marwan Kenzari gives the Evil Chancellor Jafar a soft, high-pitched voice, compared to Jonathan Freeman's much deeper voice for Jafar in the original movie. Speculation
- You Have GOT to Be Kidding Me!: Aladdin tries to play by his own rules when, as Prince Ali, he and the Genie spot Jasmine. Genie just uses his magic to "blow" him over to her, prompting a "Really?" from Al. Speculation
It doesn't necessarily need a page cut— it could be kept as an example-less page until release— but all of these examples need either deleting or some serious work.
@gjjones - I think we should re-create Star Wars IX when we have a final title and there are at least three good, valid, non-speculative trope examples to be put on the page. The release date seems like a time when that would be possible. If you want to re-create it earlier than that, then I would strongly suggest bringing your 3+ prospective example writeups here for discussion first.
Edited by HighCrate on Mar 22nd 2019 at 5:12:43 AM
Re: Aladdin
Exact Words should be changed to Ambiguous Syntax, the latter of which is rather explicitly shown in the trailer, during the scene where Aladdin asks to "Make me a prince" and the Genie summons a different prince instead of transforming Aladdin into royalty.
Canon Foreigner still counts, as Anders and Dalia didn't appear in the original film.
Le Parkour is explicitly depicted in the trailer (when Aladdin traverses a bunch of rungs).
The Loophole Abuse example is not speculative, as once again, the Genie summons a separate prince instead of turning Aladdin into one in the trailer.
"Arabian Nights" Days can stay, as we can see the setting in the trailer, but the example itself should be rewritten to not use the future tense, and the last sentence of the example (regarding accuracy) should be excised anyway.
Edited by Albert3105 on Mar 22nd 2019 at 6:26:41 AM
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
@High Crate: Stripping the entire page without even waiting for other opinions is a bit bold, no?
Anyway, along with everything Albert said, the second Adaptation Expansion example, both Adaptational Modesty examples, and the Benevolent Genie example can also stay, they just need to specify that they're shown through the trailer and promotional material.
Jawbreakers on sale for 99¢
Not as bold as cutlisting it, which would be justified considering that it has fewer than three valid entries. I elected not to do that in case anyone wanted to try to rehabilitate three or more entries. I also elected to comment out the invalid entries that are invalid for reasons of Speculative Troping (as opposed to the obvious shoehorning, which I deleted) so that they're more easily retrievable for anyone who wants to do so.
A trailer is not an adaptation, it's a trailer. Adaptation Expansion and Adaptational Modesty do not apply. You're speculating about the nature of the final work.
If the Benevolent Genie trope is present in the trailer, then that entry could be made valid. I'd suggest posting a writeup here and seeing how it looks.
Edit: I see that Albert went ahead and restored it on the live page, adding context to make clear that the trope is present in the trailer. Fine.
However, he also restored Ambiguous Syntax and Loophole Abuse without adding this context. Motion to re-comment out those entries until/unless someone cares to add the proper context.
Edited by HighCrate on Mar 22nd 2019 at 10:33:28 AM
That was Albert, not me.
Jawbreakers on sale for 99¢
Apologies. I noticed that and edited my post.
This is an approved cleanup thread. If you don't want to discuss constructively, then don't post.
On a different topic, after I completed cleanup of the main Toy Story 4 page three days ago, I put it on my follow list to see what would happen. At least once a day since then, someone has added at least one invalid entry. Usually for reasons of Speculative Troping, but also Zero Context Examples and one example that appears to be shoehorning (it argues with itself).
It's never been the same troper twice— nobody's edit-warring to keep the entries on the page— but it supports my argument that at least some of these pre-release pages are going to be more trouble keeping clean than they are worth.
In light of this, I move that WesternAnimation.Toy Story 4 and all subpages (with the possible exception of WMG) be locked until the film's release.
Edited by HighCrate on Mar 22nd 2019 at 12:21:44 PM
I'd argue in favor of keeping Role Reprisal. Frank Welker is confirmed to return as Abu and the Cave of Wonders.
Confirmed how?
Musician/Composer
Here is the link confirming his involvement: https://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/films/1030426/Aladdin-trailer-Disney-Will-Smith-Genie-Guy-Richie-Cave-of-Wonders
Uh... I was saying that wikipedia listed him but it looks like its sources are dubious...
On YMMV.Avengers Endgame, the page is locked but some of the examples seem speculative.
Weblinks Are Not Examples. Can I assume that the article linked cites Word of God in some way, shape, or form?
I'd suggest making a list of the entries that you feel are speculative so that we can bring them to the locked pages thread for deletion.
Edited by HighCrate on Mar 22nd 2019 at 2:56:55 AM
Musician/Composer
Think so. Disney confirmed it themselves.
Okay. That makes it an example of Word of God then. Does Welker appear in the trailer(s)?
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
Voice Actor, so... no.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
I meant does his voice appear in the trailers, silly. (-:
Anyway, since the 2019 version of Aladdin is coming out in a few months, is it necessary to cut Film.Aladdin 2019 or just keep it?
Also, do you think we should recreate Star Wars Episode IX when it gets closer to its December release (i.e. July or August)?
Edited by gjjones on Mar 21st 2019 at 2:36:31 PM
He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.