The main concern of a Hate Sink is whether the narrative treats the character as someone intended to be despised.
The character in question must actually display detestable qualities, and be hated by other characters at least, or treated by the narrative like someone you are supposed to hate. The author's declared intent cements an example, but is not needed if the narrative itself treats the character as someone who is supposed to be hated.
A Hate Sink may have charismatic traits, a troubled past, or complexity, but in order for this trope to be in effect, such traits must be de-emphasized by the narrative in favour of their detestable traits.
Please note that we do not use Effort Posts.
Edited by gjjones on Dec 3rd 2020 at 7:43:25 AM
Since you're all focusing on Shou Tucker, I would like to know what you think about Kai Chisaki/Overhaul
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Edited by IukaSylvie on Jun 19th 2019 at 2:34:47 AM
Showtime!
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Tucker
The Draftsman of Doom
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
A Million times to Tucker.
.....
Well, I made a writeup for the Mana community over here. Is there something need fixing or this one's good to go? Feels like I could use some trimming, but I dunno which ones to trim.
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Eh sure to Chisaki I guess...
As far as Mana Users go... Hmmmm
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
And here's a re-evaluation effort post for the Gold-Toothed Doctor, my second candidate from Fullmetal Alchemist.
What is the work?
From the summary of the manga:
The government tightly controls knowledge about the Philosopher's Stone, however, so Edward takes — and passes — the State Alchemist Examination to become "a dog of the military" and gain access to the State's information. The brothers also do the government's work by traveling around the country and solving problems, though trouble often finds them first. As the Elrics dig deeper into the mystery of the Philosopher's Stone and search for a way to create one, they stumble onto truths about their family and friends, the military, the Stone, and even the very nature of alchemy itself — and they also discover a vast conspiracy led by dark forces who wish to use their search for their own reasons.
Who is he?
From his Complete Monster entry on Monster.Fullmetal Alchemist:
What makes him personally despicable?
From his Hate Sink entry on HateSink.Anime And Manga:
Mitigating factors?
Nothing. He's just a Mad Scientist, selfish and sociopathic.
Conclusion?
Another easy .
Edited by IukaSylvie on Jun 20th 2019 at 8:44:42 PM
I don't want to be a killjoy but just quoting other pages isn't good form at all and it's just lazy. Many on the Complete Monster cleanup thread had been scolded for doing it.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I see. I will do my best to write my own words as much as I can.
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
I think maybe using his Monster write up on the "what does he do" section is okay. But the other stuff should be more original
Things are really about to get Fun around here
Thank you. I get it.
Edited by IukaSylvie on Jun 19th 2019 at 6:21:47 PM
To be a Master
Alright! I'm back from China and have my laptop back into my hands for better editing process. I do hope this thread didn't grow rapidly while I was away because I need to figure out who needs future write ups.
Hmmm, I see we are talking about Shou Tucker and the Gold-Tooth Doctor. Not sure why we need to do that since manga Shou Tucker was shown being sentenced to Hell by the author, an iron-clad proof of an intended Hate Sink.
In any case, if possible, emphasize on what the author says or does to ensure that these characters are meant to be hated (and not in The Scrappy kind of way).
Edited by Shadao on Jun 19th 2019 at 3:37:15 AM
My new candidate is already on his character page, but since he's not properly discussed here, I write an effort post for him without relying on references too much.
What is the work?
Super Paper Mario tells the story of Mario and his companions trying to stop the mysterious Count Bleck from destroying all worlds.
Who is he?
The nameless father of Blumiere is a flashback-only character, so I'm going to discuss him in the past tense. He was a member of the Tribe of Darkness, a reclusive group that diverged from the Tribe of Ancients after stealing the Dark Prognosticus, the forbidden book of prophecies about The End of the World as We Know It, in order to prevent its abuse. At some point, he caught his son sneaking out of the castle, delaying the latter's tryst with a human girl named Timpani, whom the young man first met when she nursed him back to health. Blumiere's mention of the incident confirms the rumors told by Carson that the Tribe of Darkness lived in a secret castle deep in a forest.
Sometime after, Blumiere found Timpani injured (crying in the North American translation). When he demanded to know what happened, wondering if his father was behind it, she replied: "I'm... I'm just an ordinary girl. No matter how much I love you, we must part. This is good-bye, Blumiere. There's no other choice. This is our fate..." Despite this, their Interspecies Romance went fine for a while, with him promising her that they would find a place where their love could survive. Why would they have to leave, do you ask? Because, as noted by Carson, the Tribe of Darkness avoided mixing with other people out of pride, going as far as to forbid intermarriage so they wouldn't lose their magic (which was said to be stronger within their parent tribe).
Before they could elope as planned, Blumiere's father cursed her to wander between all dimensions forever, implicitly confirming his son's earlier suspicion. She suffered such a Fate Worse than Death that, by the time Merlon found her in the interdimensional town Flipside, he had to turn her into a Pixl, now known as Tippi, in order to save her life. Meanwhile, when Blumiere demanded to know what happened:
"Still your tongue, Blumiere... Can't you see you've been duped by a dirty human? You have brought shame to my name...and to the entire Tribe of Darkness!"
"And so what if I did? That doesn't matter to me! She's my entire world!"
"Well, then it will interest you to know...that she no longer resides in this world."
"What... What do you mean by that?!"
"This is the price those who resist their own fate must pay, my son."
"She... No... It can't be so!"
"Someday you will see, Son. Our kind and humans must never mix."
After Blumiere desperately searched her in vain, the young man returned home becoming a Straw Nihilist over her apparent death. He took the Dark Prognosticus in an attempt to avenge her, ignoring his father's warning against opening the book ("Blumiere, my son, don't! Even your ancestors could not handle that dark book... If you open it...there's no telling what might happen!"), but it's implied that the book twisted his mind. Renaming himself Count Bleck, he began his quest for destruction by destroying his own homeland.
What makes him personally despicable?
He's a prejudiced traditionalist who (unwittingly) started the entire plot simply because he had no qualms about trying to kill a kind-hearted human whose only "crime" was being in love with his son against the law of his tribe.
Mitigating factors?
Even though he's not an Omnicidal Maniac, his traditionalism doesn't mitigate how extreme his crimes are. There's nothing remotely cool or complex about him.
Conclusion?
I lean towards .
Edited by IukaSylvie on Jun 27th 2019 at 7:17:34 PM
Lizzid people!
Since it's Thursday somewhere, decided to do this early as I think this one is an easy keeper, and because I'm planning on seeing Child's Play 2019 soon.
What is the work?
Supermarioglitchy4s Super Mario 64 Bloopers is a Widget Series by Supermarioglitchy 4. It stars Mario and his misadventures. It has Loads And Loads Of Characters such as his brother Luigi; his boss/roommate SMG4; the Inkling Meggy Spletzer; gamer cyborg Tari; and more.
The series is also known for its arcs which often delve into massive gravitas with the Anime Arc not being any different.
Who is he? What has he done?
Francis is a chameleon and the crime lord of the Anime Cartel. After anime is banned in the Mushroom Kingdom, Francis finds himself getting lopped into working with Mario after he accidentally destroyed their illegal goods and threatening to break his bones lest he make up for the blunder. When SMG4, Saiko, Fishy Boopkins and Bob go to Japan, they meet with the esteemed manga artist Axol who is able to bring his creations to life through a device he dubbed Inkweaver. After convincing Peach to lift the ban, Meggy and dozens of Inklings are mass kidnapped. While the team is split on whether it meant Axol was the culprit, it is clarified later that Francis was the true mastermind. Becoming disillusioned with his former idol, Francis concludes that he could use Inkweaver to its highest potential.
His plan you ask? He wanted to use Inkweaver to create a harem of waifus, of course! He forces Meggy's compliance by ordering a Mewtwo copy to choke Axol with its psychic powers and sends his creations to kill the others.
When the gang arrives to Anime Island to rescue Meggy, they beat down a replica of the One Winged Angel Sephiroth and there was much rejoicing. But then, Desti, Meggy's Octoling arch-rival is suddenly stabbed by another copy of Sephiroth. Francis laughs psychotically proudly declaring that the others would suffer the same fate if they crossed him.
He then creates Super Saiyan God Goku the process of which uses up all the ink in Inkweaver. And the clone royally wipes the floor with them. Fortunately, Axol retrieves Inkweaver and uses the last of Meggy's ink to recharge Inkweaver to 100%, bringing Ultra Instinct Shaggy to life. With the table turned, Francis tries to weasel his way out by noting he only killed one Octoling.
Saiko grabs him, informing him she'd make him regret being born. Upon realizing that he was going to be placed into one of the zuccer machines, Francis begs for mercy but Saiko had none of it. She then drops him in and activates the machine which sucks Francis from the inside out. But if that didn't kill him, Goku self-destructing and leveling Anime Island sure did.
What makes him personally despicable?
I don't know. Maybe it's the fact he's willing to commit genocide all for his selfish, hedonistic desires? Perhaps its the fact he's such an Ungrateful Bastard despite the lifting of the anime ban being Axol's doing? Oh, or when he killed Desti and mocked the others for mourning her? You decide.
Mitigating factors? Evil Is Cool? Complexity?
No. He seemed to be a Benevolent Boss at first, but is later made clear he saw them as nothing more than pawns. Nay on EIC. He is a sleazy bastard only motivated to satiating his desires without an iota of consideration for others.
Verdict
A big and scaly yes for Francis. Thoughts?
Edited by AustinDR on Jun 19th 2019 at 11:21:12 AM
Francis.
The Draftsman of Doom
Francis, gold toothed doctor, and the father.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Jun 20th 2019 at 7:14:14 AM
Rawr.
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
to Francis.
I'm contemplating writing an effort post for Endeavor from My Hero Academia, but I find it a difficult work because, while he was undeniably an abusive father and husband, several facts and revelations have cast previous assumptions based on Shoto's explanation into doubt, as noted by the following sentences on Characters.My Hero Academia Other Heroes:
- Child by Rape: When introduced, his words on how he groomed his youngest son, Shoto, to be his successor in hopes of surpassing All Might because of his Ice/Fire Quirk, alongside how he views his older children as failures and his horrible marriage, initially caused the audience to assume that he kept exercising his Marital Rape License against Rei until Shoto was born. However, these assumptions have been cast into heavy doubt due to several facts and revelations:
- Endeavor's daughter and second oldest child is 22 and turning 23... while he's only 45 turning 46. Given the age gaps between his children, Shoto 15 and Natsuo being 18-19, one can assume his oldest, Toya, is older than his sister by 3-4 years, making Endeavor potentially 19-21 when he became a parent. Since he'd just be starting his hero career around the same time, Shoto's explanation that he used his fame and wealth to make Rei's family allow their Quirk marriage becomes much more questionable regarding the circumstances, though Endeavor himself notes that he chose her because she could mitigate his Quirk's weaknesses.
- Furthermore, Toya was Endeavor's first choice as his successor, reinforced by his age making him a high school student and hero in training when Shoto was just getting his Quirk. Additionally, it's implied that Toya may have been crippled or killed when Endeavor attempted to teach a Dangerous Forbidden Technique. Even though Toya's fire Quirk was superior to his father's, he inherited his mother's weaker constitution, implying he could not handle his own fire and got ruined.
- Indirectly, the film reveals that All Might spent his early hero years in America. If he and Endeavor are the same age, it's likely that Endeavor was already a father when All Might returned to Japan and thus, the idea of having his children surpass All Might did not occur until this time if not sometime after.
- Darwinist Desire: Possibly subverted. Word choice gave the interpretation that he only married Rei to have a child with Combo Platter Powers who could be strong enough to surpass All Might as the greatest superhero. However, it's later revealed he chose her to have someone balance his Quirk's weaknesses. That, alongside the revelation that he originally chose Toya as his successor because Toya's Quirk gave him even hotter flames than his father's and the fact that he and she would've become parents at just out of adolescence and thus the start of his career, makes this much more questionable.
- Domestic Abuse: His marriage to Rei and their history remains unknown for the most part, though by the present day, it's in total shambles. While initially assumed he married her in the hopes of having a child with both their Quirks that could be strong enough to surpass All Might, this is dispelled when he notes that he married her to cover his weaknesses (alongside the revelations of their ages meaning they were quite young). [...]
Edited by IukaSylvie on Jun 22nd 2019 at 9:23:32 PM
Lizzid people!
- I Made A Comic About Internet Explorer: Google Chrome Chan and Opera are both internet browsers with aspirations of power. Google Chrome Chan tortured Bing for her RAM and ultimately left her a hollow husk. Opera pretends to team up with Internet Explorer but backstabs her solely so she could feed on Google Chrome Chan's Chromium OS.
- Ma: Ben and Mercedes bullied Sue Ann back in high school by making her perform a blowjob on a total stranger. Unrepentant even years later, Ben threatens Sue Ann and additionally reminds her that she was a loser. As such, both receive little sympathy when Sue Ann murders them.
- SMG4's Mario Bloopers: Francis, the boss of the Anime Cartel, goes the extra mile by kidnapping Inklings to harness them of their ink to create a harem of anime girls for his hedonistic pleasure. He later sent a Sephiroth replica to impale Desti, and laughs maniacally at the others mourning her.
To be a Master
Hmmm, looks like we have new, unconfirmed entry in the Animation Film subpage. It's about the Joker from the DCAU, specifically ROTJ Joker from Batman Beyond.
- Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker: The DCAU Joker was always a monster, but most of his appearances are counterbalanced by making him a Laughably Evil Large Ham. This film goes out of its way to make him as despicable as possible. To elaborate, he kidnapped then-Robin Tim Drake, tortured, mutilated and Mind Raped him for three weeks to re-create him as Joker Jr., and invited Batman over to see his work in detail. He also reveals that he's learned Batman's Secret Identity, mocks him for it, and knifes him before he tosses Joker Jr. a spear gun to finish him off. The Joker was so awful in this film that, despite having voiced him for nearly a decade, Mark Hamill actually felt uncomfortable doing the role this time.
Not sure if it should be removed or not, but it does offer us a chance to examine the trope for characters with multiple works and interpretations.
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
I think it could stay, the entry does a good job emphasizing how Joker didn't count until this film came around.
Things are really about to get Fun around here
I say it should stay. That particular Joker, despite his Evil Is Cool cred being in full swing, is such a cruel, evil bastard that I'd say he still counts. Villains can be cool and still be a Hate Sink.
Writeup for Ganishka:
- Emperor Ganishka is the sadistic leader of the Kushan Empire, who commits depraved acts on a regular basis. While his goal is to challenge the similarly villainous Godhand, Ganishka is destructive and idiotic about the matter, permitting mass rape to spawn his demonic soldiers, The Daka, and kidnapping the Princess Charlotte and attempting to rape her, and attempting unsuccessfully to kill everyone in Midland.
A 20th Century Boy
Quick question: if a character who initially seems to be a Hate Sink ends up subverting the trope, does the character still count as a hate sink? There’s one character that I have misgivings about and think might need re-evaluation.
The Draftsman of Doom
It depends on author intent. If a character is initially intentionally presented as despicable, and gains redeeming qualities, it should be noted in the entry.
Rawr.
Easy yes to Shou... Easily the most hated character in anime history along with Makoto Itou and Malty Melromarc.
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."