During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
- Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.
- What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
- Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
- Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
- Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
- Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
- Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.
- What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.
- Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.
- What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
- Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
- Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
- List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
- The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.
- How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.
- What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.
- What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.
- What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.
- Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.
- What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.
- Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.
- What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.
- Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.
- My example/edit has been approved, but the example subpage is locked! How do I get it added?: The moderators do not add examples to locked example subpages in the MagnificentBastard/ namespace directly. Rather, you need to do the edit to a sandbox page that follows the format Sandbox.MagnificentBastard<Name of the example subpage> (e.g for MagnificentBastard.Fullmetal Alchemist it's Sandbox.Magnificent Bastard Fullmetal Alchemist) and on a Friday, ask in the locked pages edit requests thread for the content to be swapped in.
Thread rules
When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.
Resolved items
In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.
However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.
This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.
Definitely an MB
- Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers: Any sadism Darkrai displays is limited in effect thanks to the game's nature and any cowardice which can be inferred about him is Alternative Character Interpretation about his tactical retreats.
- Avatar: The Last Airbender: Azula's Villainous Breakdown is undone in the sequel comic Smoke & Shadow where she regains her composure and ends up stable and in control enough to count.
Definitely not an MB
- South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
jareth and late to all other Star Wars candidates (especially hk-47) except for boba fett ( I already voted on him)
Statement: I shall upvote Mandarin, Grace, Malgus, Sartoris, Azrael, the Butcher, Bari and Gustav and
Superlative: especially HK-47.
M E A T B A G
Herman and Sartoris.
A total has-been.
The Butcher, Bari and Gustav (Gustav in particular, he was great as the Stealth Mentor type partner), Azrael. Herman, and Sartoris (I want to read that book so badly now!)
Know what? I'm just gonna get Azrael out of the way now so weeks don't go by without a peep from me again.
Exmortis: Azrael is the last survivor of the Ancient Dominion War besides his brother, Vlaew. A brilliant leader and a master tactician, Azrael led his armies to topple Vlaew's bastions, sparing him to enlist him as his general to help defeat the threat Kfafta posed to the both of them. With Kfafta vanquished, Azrael assumed a totalitarian rule over the lesser entities and prepared to have Vlaew executed, only for his armies to turn against him and for Vlaew to banish him to a hellish dimension. Meeting with Mr. Hannay, Azrael offers to transfer the Ancient powers to him to finally defeat his brother and asking to be freed from his eons of suffering.
Suggestion: If I may say so, HK-47's writeup seems incomplete without using his trademark Verbal Tic.
Edited by Stellarvore on Feb 24th 2022 at 9:15:59 AM
Easy yes to Boba Fett, (not getting the argument that a character has to be BORN an MB, if that was the case Jafar would be cut among other things. Boba being a Naïve Newcomer in Clone Wars is hardly his fault when he built up so much. It's like saying Ol' Sheev didn't murder Ewoks as a kid, guess he's gotta go for CM) And Fennec and Krrsantan (love these relatively new characters in addition to 47 year old Boba), Mandarin, Malgus, HK, Raven, the Zatch Bell candidates. Will read the others later.
Edited by Klavice on Feb 24th 2022 at 7:32:49 AM
Northcutt's write-up. As "Ferry Tale" is the 7th episode of Season 5, his entry goes between Ewan and Valeria.
- Psych
- "Ferry Tale": Dane Northcutt is the leader of a group of convicts planning a prison escape. Taking advantage of being on work detail, he and his teammates overpower their guard and almost succeed in making a clean getaway till Shawn intervenes and sabotages their escape. In response, they hold the ferry passengers hostage and use them as a human shield so that the SBPD snipers can't shoot them. Northcutt and his partner later escape from the ferry by pretending to be wounded hostages and hijacking the medic raft that picks them up.
Is this good? I've also adjusted the header for Magnificent Bastard Psych
Edited by magnumtropus on Feb 24th 2022 at 3:43:38 PM
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Vincent Bari and Gustav, Azrael, Honest Herman, Jareth Sartoris
While I take my time deciding whether Lara is worth proposing and having a look at two Skyrim characters why not have a proposal from a little indie gem?
What is the work?
Pumpkin Jack is an indie platformer game made by one guy. You follow the titular character in an adventure to help the devil overrun humanity and stop their champion,The Wizard. Despite Jack being the protagonist, he is not a good guy by any means and he's the character I want to propose.
Who is Jack?
A trickster and conman, Jack was notable for being able to deceive the devil 3 times, leaving his name in infamy and for him to be doomed to wander the earth as a wayward soul. Because of humanity choosing the Wizard as their champion to rid the monsters, The Devil chose Jack to be his champion to challenge the Wizard in return for him being pardoned for tricking him three times. To make sure Jack doesn't try any funny business, The Devil enlists an Owl to be his supervisor (he basically acts as the tutorial guide and checkpoint system.)
What does Jack do in the game?
Starting off in the first level, Jack gets used to his body and learns how to deal with the monsters plaguing the area in his way. (Monsters are Always Chaotic Evil and because Jack has a human soul, they deem him a threat.) While progressing through the level, Jack meets a crow who he allows to travel with him because he provides assistance. After escaping a giant burning barn, Jack then has a battle with a scarecrow that was terrorising the crows.
Jack then ventured up through an abandoned mountain mine to find an amulet which could help him become powerful and wipe out the wizard, taking out the guardian phantom lurking around the place. Unfortunately the Wizard had beaten him to the amulet and was intending on using it for his own purposes to wipe out all the monsters and Jack.
Jack ventures in a mysterious forest to track the wizard down, aiding a merchant who will take him to his wife, a witch, in case she has any useful information. Unfortunately it was a ploy by the Witch and her husband to take Jack's head to make magic vegetarian soup. Despite losing his head, Jack was able to allow the crow to control his body and fight the duo and reclaim his head. Jack then found a city under siege by the monsters in which the Wizard passed through and left his human soldiers to deal with Jack, casting a spell on some of them in which makes them immune to the crow's stun attack. Jack will then battle through both monster and human to reach the end of the city battling the king of the monsters, Dhor.
After that, Jack heads to a graveyard to find the Architect of Hell who can lead him to the Wizard's domain but first he has to release the seven sins onto the planet, fighting the sin of gluttony at the end. After that Jack ends up in the Wizard's lair up north. After a final onslaught of going through the Wizard's forces, Jack finally meets the Wizard. Because the amulet's power could only be unlocked by a pure soul, something that only Jack had since he's a free spirit, the Wizard engages a battle against him, with Jack victorious in the end. With the amulet's power unlocked, Jack uses it to become a god and rule the planet. Happy Ending...?
Is he magnificent?
Jack's a literal One-Man Army going up against hordes of monsters and human soldiers and is shown to be adaptable to his combat situations in bosses such as using the environments against some of them. Jack's no mere brute either as he's able to detach his head and use it to solve a variety of unique puzzles to help him progress through the levels. Jack is also shown to be able to utilise vehicles in the levels such as minecarts, wagons, gargoyles, magic horses. Him being tricked by the Witch and her husband? She used one of his own tricks which he acknowledged with begrudging respect.
Is he a bastard?
Jack murders both humans and monsters (albiet they both attack him) to further his goal of defeating the wizard and is generally a Jerkass to people he encounters but he has enough sense to be pragmatic about his actions such as doing the fetch quests for the merchant so he can speak to the Witch for information so he knows when to restrain himself. And of course there's the ending in which Jack unlocks the amulet's power and becomes a god and lets him rule the planet.
Final Verdict?
Eh first time doing a protagonist but I'm leaning , thoughts?
EDIT: I made a mistake when it comes to the end, Jack doesn't rule the planet, he's just content with roaming it albiet with the power of a God.
Edited by WetFlannels on Feb 24th 2022 at 4:33:58 PM
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
The page seems to paint him much worse but I’ll go in good faith it’s mostly just gameplay fighting mechanics and “becomes a god” is left open ended rather than him turning the world into a hell scape at Satan’s behest. Otherwise he seems to fit in fine. Sure to Jack for now and I’m fine for a Psych header but what I’d really like is a quote as I’ve asked many times.
Yes to Vincent Bari, Gustav, Azrael, Herman, and Jareth Sartoris and Jack (tentative).
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I was thinking of using Pierre Despereaux's speech to Shawn in the restaurant in "Extradition British Columbia". I think the first two sentences could be cut to make it shorter:
Edited by magnumtropus on Feb 24th 2022 at 4:52:22 PM
Here's my draft writeup for Escharum. Any thoughts before I send it drafts?
- Halo Infinite: Escharum is a war chief of the Banished who once served as mentor to their warmaster Atriox. Taking command after Atriox goes MIA, Escharum creates a Cult of Personality around Atriox's visage to maintain order in the diverse Banished and rallies them behind Atriox's plan to repair and fire the Zeta Halo in retribution for the destruction of Doisac. Viewing the UNSC Spartans views as Worthy Opponents and desiring a fight with Master Chief himself before his age catches up to him, Escharum creates a specialized team of Spartan Killers to combat them. Killed by Master Chief, Escharum dies happily at having had a glorious Final Battle, and is acknowledged by Master Chief as a soldier trying to do right by his people.
I noticed that Film J To Y lists the Red Death from The Masque of the Red Death, but he's not on the YMMV page
—signature not found—
Gotta love Jaws!
to the Mandarin, Grace, Malgus, HK-47, Raven, Butcher, Bari, Gustav, Azrael, Herman, Jareth and Jack.
Good Reddish and you can just add him Nightmares or I'll do it tomorrow.
Goku Black
Butcher Joyce, Vincent Bari and Gustav, Azrael, Honest Herman and Sartorius.
Yes to Herman, Sartorius, and Jack.
Cuphead: King Dice is the dapper right hand of the Devil and the manager of the casino that entraps Cuphead and Mugman. King Dice lures in the greedy by allowing them to win big before calling in his boss to cheat them out of their souls, doing the same to the brothers and forcing them to collect the soul contracts of previous victims. Watching them every step of their journey, he takes notice of their growing power and sets up a trap to steal the contracts and offer them to the Devil in their place. Making full use of his casino theme, King Dice first weakens the brothers with a series of boss battles before fighting them directly with his playing card powers. Ultimately defeated, King Dice maintains a wicked grin throughout in contrast to his cowardly and pathetic master.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Unofficial co-Wiki Curator for Magnificent Bastard
About MagnificentBastard.Dragalia Lost, the header looks a lot like a placeholder for something that was never delivered on. Here's my suggestion for a header:
- Among the many adventurers and dragons that wander around Alberia, these characters would prove themselves to be the most devious yet cunning of them all.
P.S. About Thorr, since she's also a crossover character from another game, should we add that entry to MagnificentBastard.Fire Emblem as well?
Edited by Siegfried1337 on Feb 24th 2022 at 10:19:40 AM
MB Pending | MB Drafts | MB Dates
The Unknown Unknown
Keeping the Zatch Bell train rolling while I'm at it.
Who is the candidate? The character’s actions?
An African man wearing a dear's head on his head and a purple panther, Garza and Baransha respectively are the main threat in Episode 39/Chapter 80. Forging an invitation to a resort vacation that brings Zatch, Kiyo, Suzy, and Kiyo's mother along, as well as faking a map to a secret springs, the two sprung a trap on Zatch and Kiyo and quickly overwhelm them with their guerilla tactics. Among their moves include shooting down the bridge so they couldn't escape, Garza using his dear head to fake out the heroes, and Baransha getting into favorable position using her invisibility. However, Kiyo—being The Strategist he is—uses stink flower buds Zatch mistakenly retrieved for food to allow Zatch to follow Baransha's scent even when invisible. Eventually, Baransha and Garza get cornered, but Kiyo musters the willpower to unleash Bao Zakeruga to send them running off.
The two are later dispatched by Mamodo from one thousand years ago.
Magnificent (Charming, Charismatic, Intelligent, Adaptable, etc.)? Why or why not?
Set up the entire trap that predicated the conflict of the episode and compounds their strategic ability with a great understanding of hunting and guerilla tactics. They also have a good deal of patience, willing to wait out until Kiyo runs out of "power from within" (or "heart energy") so he can't cast spells.
My one tiny hesitation is the two do a little One Piece-style overreaction to Bao Zakeruga, but it's not really a big deal if you ask me. They don't even get hit, they just run and live to fight another day. Garza even says as much since they have her book still intact.
Bastard? Not too much of one?
Villain of the Week looking to gain a leg up on the tournament whatever means. Introduces themselves attacking Kiyo. Strictly formula, nothing more and nothing less.
Competition?
They stand out using their hunting tactics among the numbers and their unique presence.
Conclusion?
Sure. If they do get up, here's a good quote:
- "Baransha, what's the absolutely toughest obstacle to always overcome in any one particular hunt? [...] That's right, the brain! It controls how they cleverly trick the hunter and try to run away from him. And, in the end, how they counterattack. Now let's see how smart they are, and we'll see where he's going to run, how he's going to hide, and how he's going to fight."—Garza
This quote is already on Magnificent Bastard Psych, But I'd like to wait for some votes to come in before I put on the draft page
Edited by magnumtropus on Feb 24th 2022 at 6:29:56 PM
I hate spoilers
for Garza. While he did take a humiliating L, more or less being Back for the Dead non-lethally, he was ganged up on and had no way of knowing when and why this would happen.
Edited by 227someguy on Feb 24th 2022 at 2:14:17 PM
Everyone look at my sandbox
Sure for Garza and now I wish to return to a favorite series of old: Redwall. A fantasy series for young adults with anthropomorphic animals. My proposal is from the novel Pearls of Lutra, when Redwall Abbey is embroiled on a conflict to find the legendary Pearls of Lutra, beautiful pink pearls that belonged to the Lutra otters...now slaughtered on the orders of the wicked Emperor Ublaz, a Pine Marten former corsair who reigns over the isle of Sampetra...
Now, let's talk our villain: Rasconza.
Who is Rasconza?
A charming, ambitious fox and the only one of his kind on Sampetra. Ublaz was a corsair once who happened upon the isle and used his powerful hypnotic gaze to dominate the native carnivorous monitor lizards...Ublaz is known as "Mad-Eyes," for his power, though never to his face...now, Ublaz desires the pearls to make a crow and Captain Conva, a stoat, disappoints him. Conva is locked up for it, which Ublaz knows will lead to trouble with Barranca, the daring and charismatic brother of Conva...Ublaz? Executes Conva cruelly, which leads to open war, Barranca swaying the other Captains to his side.
Rasconza, disliking the prospect of civil war for no real gain or purpose, sabotages his own captain Slashback and Barranca's cre, letting them be attacked by Ublaz's forces. At the right moment, Rasconza rallies his forces to 'rescue' Barranca, only to fatally stab him in the confusion and blame it on Ublaz's forces, setting himself up as savior and leader there.
Rasconza forces peace talks where he reveals to Ublaz he's masterminded all this and brings up the futility of war. Ublaz agrees to concessions and to elevate Rasconza to Captain-of-Captains...but then sabotages his ship on the maiden voyage. Rasconza survives with his helsmrat Guja, furious over the betrayal and reorganizes the crews into the Wave Brethren...proceeding to utterly dismantle Ublaz's power base with his cunning...even convincing Ublaz's henchrat, Sagitar Sawfang, to defect and lure Ublaz into a trap when Ublaz threatens her too many times...
Unfortunately, as victory is near, the heroes arrive and set fire to the Corsairs' ships...they immediately desert Rasconza despite his entreaties to finish Ublaz and rebuld the ships later...blaming Sagitar for not warning him of Ublaz's plot (not knowing anyone else is on the island)...Rasconza backs down from a fight, only to spin around and fling a dagger into her chest. Before dying however, Sagitar manages to impale him with her trident, killing Rasconza instantly.
Mitigating issues?
Foxes in Redwall are often sly and cunning, Rasconza no exception. He engineers the deaths of the captains to seize control of Sampetra's corsairs with utter perfection, nobody ever finds out he was responsible. Leading the rebellion against Ublaz, Rasconza basically wins it before the heroes even show up. Seriously by the time time they get to Sampetra, Rasconza has all but dealt with Ublaz himself. The only negative is Rasconza nearly dying aboard the blood Keel when Ublaz sabotages it, but he is legit shocked U Blaz would do the single stupidest thing and try to murder him for no gain whatsoever
Is Rasconza a bad guy? Yes. He betrays and sees the captains killed. They're not good people, but they're his allies and genuinely trust him. Rasconza has zero remorse over this, but he's shown to be quite enraged his crew is killed and he doesn't get up to any atrocities, even if he expresses a wish to go plundering with all the death that entails.
So, yes. Bad, but not too bad.
Conclusion?
Easy keeper.
Goku Black
Rasconza and Garza.
Malgus, HK, Raven, Butcher, Vicent, Gustav, Azrael, Herman, Sartoris, Jack, Garza, Baransha and Rasconza
