During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
- Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.
- What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
- Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
- Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
- Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
- Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
- Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.
- What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.
- Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.
- What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
- Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
- Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
- List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
- The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.
- How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.
- What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.
- What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.
- What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.
- Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.
- What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.
- Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.
- What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.
- Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.
- My example/edit has been approved, but the example subpage is locked! How do I get it added?: The moderators do not add examples to locked example subpages in the MagnificentBastard/ namespace directly. Rather, you need to do the edit to a sandbox page that follows the format Sandbox.MagnificentBastard<Name of the example subpage> (e.g for MagnificentBastard.Fullmetal Alchemist it's Sandbox.Magnificent Bastard Fullmetal Alchemist) and on a Friday, ask in the locked pages edit requests thread for the content to be swapped in.
Thread rules
When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.
Resolved items
In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.
However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.
This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.
Definitely an MB
- Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers: Any sadism Darkrai displays is limited in effect thanks to the game's nature and any cowardice which can be inferred about him is Alternative Character Interpretation about his tactical retreats.
- Avatar: The Last Airbender: Azula's Villainous Breakdown is undone in the sequel comic Smoke & Shadow where she regains her composure and ends up stable and in control enough to count.
Definitely not an MB
- South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM
Well, it HAS been an while, but here we go!
Kamen Rider Kabuto: God Speed Love is the 2006 Summer movie entry in the Kamen Rider franchise, which takes place in an Alternate Continuity of the Kamen Rider Kabuto tv show.
In this world, a meteorite impacted Earth seven years go, causing the whole planet's water supply to become depleted. From Bad to Worse, this meteor held extraterrestrial creatures known as the Worms, who proceeded to kill humans and assume their identities. In order to counter this new threat, ZECT was formed, who in turn created the Masked Rider System to combat the Worms. The battles lasts over seven years, further reducing Earth's resources and turning it into a barren wasteland. At the present time, power struggles in ZECT have caused a man known as Hidenori Oda/Kamen Rider Hercus to establish a splinter group called Neo-ZECT with Daisuke Kazama/Kamen Rider Drake and Shura Hokuto to fight against ZECT's authority.
During one of their various battles, a mysterious man in white arrives and decides to sell his power to either Neo-ZECT or ZECT for his own personal agenda...
Who is Souji Tendou? What makes him a candidate?
The man who walks the path of Heaven, and will rule over all, Souji Tendou/Kamen Rider Kabuto is looking for ZECT's secret golden rider and to claim the power that Kamen Rider has for himself.
First arriving in the middle of battle between the ZECT and Neo-ZECT Riders, Souji quickly establishes his power to all by delivering a Curb-Stomp Battle to everyone there before suddenly stopping and declaring his strength for sale.
Easily intergrading himself with both sides of this civil war despite everyone being suspicious of him, Tendou is able to discover the Zect plan known as Jacob's Ladder: a plan to capture a meteor made of ice and spread its water throughout Earth, replenishing the Earth’s oceans, with Tendou going in with Neo-ZECT to disrupt it.
Despite the big Spanner in the Works caused by a traitor in the group and losing Kamen Rider Drake, Tendou is still able to get up to Jacob's Ladder and duel Tetsuki Yamato/Kamen Rider Ketaros in space itself...only to witness the meteor of ice being destroyed by an even BIGGER meteor full of Worms, heading towards Earth.
After causing Kamen Rider Ketaros to fall to his death from orbit, Tendou witnesses his ally, Kamen Rider Hercus, being killed in battle by the golden rider he was looking for: Issei Kurosaki/Kamen Rider Caucasus.
After the death of his sister and learning of Zect's true plans of using missiles to wake up the Worms in the missiles before they land on Earth, then having the Worms kill all of humanity and take over the Earth, Tendou, along with Arata Kagami/Kamen Rider Gatack, goes up to space once more and fight Caucasus for one last battle...and promptly get they butts handed on a silver platter thanks to the Hyper Zecter on him. However, with a quick opening provided by Gatack, Kabuto is able to steal the Zector for himself before punting Caucasus into space.
After putting an injured Kagami in a space pod back to Earth, Kabuto uses the Hyper Zector to transform into Kamen Rider Kabuto Hyper Kabuto, going back in time to first save Kagami from Caucasus, finishing the latter off once and for all, before taking the second meteor full of Worms, going back in time with it seven years in the past, before crashing it into the first meteor, preventing the original events of the next seven years from ever occurring in the first place.
The last time we see this version of Tendou is him giving his Rider belt to his younger self, getting him to promise to protect his little sister before disappearing.
Is Tendou magnificent?
Yes. He. IS.
With style and swagger unmatched by anyone in the film, Tendou is able to stay one step ahead of everyone in the film, purposefully stirring up fights between the ZECT and Neo-ZECT Riders in order to lure out the Kamen Rider Caucasus.
At one point of the film, when one of the Neo-Zect leaders catches him scheming with Kagami, a ZECT-loyalist, he willingly lets himself be tortured by her without giving a hint of his true goals for even a second, having the balls to even say, while chained up and hanging in the air over a pit mind you, "I dozed off a bit. Put more vigor into it."
Despite being more than once caught off guard by the plans and actions of others, Tendou proves himself to be a master player of Xanatos Speed Chess and maneuver around these unexpected obstacles, allowing him to achieve the adjective he set out to get from the start: successfully taking a hold of the Hyper Zecter by the end before using it to undo the post-apocalypse timeline.
He also gets quite the Adaptational Nice Guy treatment with his interactions with others: he's openly caring towards his little sister, resident Ill G Irl Hiyori, being quite devastated when he sickness kills her, he's shown to be a lot less dismissive and more supportive of Kagami in this timeline, even being the one to ordain his marriage to Hiyori, and quickly establishes a tight bond with Oda, to the point that the latter trusts him to take care of things at the time of his death.
Is he a bastard?
Adaptational Nice Guy or not, Tendo still shows his ego and arrogance to all those within his radar, being completely honest and shameless about his Manipulative Bastard actions, to the point that Nice Guy Kagami gives him a deserving decking to the face after the crap he pulled with Jacob's Ladder.
It should be also mentioned that Tendou had no idea about the Worm plan until the third act despite knowing Zect had an underlying motive, meaning he was FULLY willing to screw up a plan that would have returned water to Earth if it meant that he could get what he wants when all was said and done.
However, not once does Tendo ever allow his pride and ego to get in the way of succeeding his any of his goals, still coming across as much more likable, charming, and downright human compared to his tv counterpart.
Final Verdict?
I'd give him an "Yes" from the other side of things.
Edited by TrueChaos on Aug 26th 2021 at 12:50:44 PM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Tendou.
The Moron
And screw it, another one that might be worth a shot or might not. We move forward to "Disharmony".
Who is Doug Sanders? What does he do?
Doug Sanders, in life, was a con man and self proclaimed "life coach" who ran a pyramid scheme that eventually caught the attention of the FBI. Although they tried to find him, he eventually disappeared - in truth, he was sired into a vampire. Continuing to use his speaking talents, Doug founded a group called "Selective Slaughter", a vampire cult that operates on one rule - every member must sire two humans and capture another, both increasing their numbers exponentially and adding every human to their collective blood bank. By the time the episode begins, he's been operating for months, since the fact that he's primarily siring people means that they aren't disappearing and the police don't know he exists.
Doug is introduced explaining his organization to a new group of vampires, persuading them to his cause through promises of helping them reach their full potential and become the greatest vampires ever, even holding a ceremony to promote a vampire to a new jacket color to emphasize the fact that he rewards those who do well. The Fang Gang sends in Harmony to attempt to spy on them, gathering numbers and stuff like that, but Doug persuades Harmony to his side in a single speech, convincing her to betray the Gang and lead them into a trap.
With Angel, Cordelia, Wesley, and Gunn inside, Doug congratulates Harmony for her efforts, having gotten the two humans to sire, the one to keep, and the extra bonus of the vampire with a soul. Though he tries to tell the Gang to surrender peacefully, Wesley (leader at the time) tells the Gang to kill them all, so the Gang opens fire and a fight breaks out. Doug's army goes after them, but a majority of them retreat from the fight when the Gang puts up a fight. Doug, on the other hand, grabs an ax and confronts Angel himself, continuing his rhetoric of reaching the vampire's full potential and not being restricted by his human side. Naturally, though Doug puts up a decent fight, Angel is a naturally better fighter and, unswayed by his words like Harmony does, decapitates him with his ax.
Is he Magnificent?
As a one-shot vamp, Doug has a very unique niche as a cult leader who encourages other vampires to reach their full potential. With his guidance, the vamps have essentially formed their own community that only continues to grow with each new vamp, growing exponentially alongside emphasizing community through their "food bank" of people. He's quite charismatic as well - besides the vamps we see he's recruited over time, he flips Harmony over in less than 20 In-Universe minutes, managing to also set a trap for the Fang Gang in that time that could've worked if his vastly numerically superior gang hadn't turned tail and fled on him. Even then, he shows no fear himself, going straight after Angel with an ax and continuing to tell him he should be reaching his vampire potential instead of being held back by his human side, continuing his rhetoric up until he's literally decapitated. Plus, because his people were siring humans instead of killing them, it means that the disappearances aren't being noticed, so he's been able to operate unaccosted for months with his strategy - and just to top it off, he rewards his people when they do well, promoting one of the vampires to "yellow jacket" and inaugurating Harmony on the spot after she lures the Gang in. For a cult leader with an army behind him, he's got a niche and doesn't back down when confronted, getting down and dirty right with his gang and persuading vamps to his cause within minutes.
Is he a Bastard?
He encourages his vampires to sire other vampires and has a group of humans in a cage to serve as a food bank - otherwise known as the plan the Alternate Master had on a planet-wide scale. Yep here.
Final verdict?
I guess? Nothing about him particularly jumped out at me, but he's got a unique niche and there's nothing outright disqualifying him, so I figure he's worth a shot - what about you?
Lies and Violence!
Doug.
- Harley Quinn (2019): Mister Freeze sought to cure his darling wife Nora from her terminal illness, seeking funding through organized crime. Joining the Injustice League, Freeze managed to save Harley's life by convincing the other members to allow him to simply freeze her in a block of ice rather than kill her. When Harley and her crew come after him in revenge Freeze easily incapacitates all of them, planning to use Harley in the first of his human trials, before agreeing to allow Ivy try and find a cure first before preparing his prisoners a delicious meal. When Ivy finds a cure that requires a fatal blood transfusion Freeze quickly steps forward, stating that he's only continued living in his "godforsaken" condition in the hope of saving his beloved, dying with one final goodbye to Nora.
Doug.
Goku Black
Doug and Tendou
Edited by miraculous on Aug 25th 2021 at 5:27:58 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Gotta love Jaws!
Unofficial co-Wiki Curator for Magnificent Bastard
Grandma would proud of Tendou.
Tendou & Doug
Yes to Sanders, Tendou, Freeze, and a happy one to Mirage!
Edited by Klavice on Aug 25th 2021 at 6:13:47 AM
Tendou and Doug
Yes to Tendou and Doug.
Also... guys... 25 24 (missed Emerald's writeup) things pending: let's get to work before we keep doing an onslaught of EPs.
Edited by 43110 on Aug 25th 2021 at 9:50:01 AM
Morgan's still up on Camelot, in spite of being cut from MagnificentBastard.Live Action TV. I'm free to cut it, yes?
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
Please do, must have missed her.
Yup. Done.
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
The Moron
Here, I can give you two - I wanna knock out all of the Angels at once when I'm done with the season, but I can at least give you the two Westeros ones
- Westeros: An American Musical:
- Olenna Tyrell remains as delightfully cunning as ever. Pretending to be a senile old woman to hide her devious intelligence, Olenna very quickly views Joffrey Baratheon's sadism and decides that he must die for the sake of her children. After pretending to give Sansa a comforting ear, Olenna gives her a hairnet containing the poison that will kill him, choosing such a method to ensure she's nowhere near the groom when it happens. As a result, Tyrion is framed for the crime she committed while she votes him guilty, taking great pleasure in revealing her crime to the audience and leaving the musical having gotten everything she wanted.
- Shae proves herself to be the only rational person in Tyrion's employ throughout her brief stint in the show. After realizing how desperate Tyrion is for her affections when he defies Tywin's orders, Shae takes advantage of this by conning him out of a house among other things, then points out the flaws in Tyrion's various plans as time goes on. When he puts her in more danger, she gets her revenge by helping Olenna frame him for Joffrey's murder, lying that he schemed the assassination with his wife Sansa. When he confronts her that night, Shae finally calls him out for his selfish attitude, never losing her fearless edge even when Tyrion grabs a crossbow and kills her.
Time for my next Runescape effort post. Today will be the second of 3 gods I'll be doing post on, and a character who is the utter antithesis of my previous candidate Zaros.
Who is Seren?
Seren is the divine aspect of light in contrast to her brother Zaros, the divine aspect of darkness. Both were born in the beginning of the current cycle by the dreams of the stillborn Elder God Mah, but Seren in Zaros's opposite in every way. Whereas he is cold and ruthless, she is empathetic and compassionate. While he works to distance himself from others, she always forms deep attachments to those she loves. While Zaros had grand ambitions of becoming an Elder God, Seren simply sought to have a family. All this given, Seren did not approve of Zaros's decision to flee Freneskae and believed they owed it to Mah to stay at her side to care for her as she was their creator. When Zaros left, Mah grew to have terrible nightmares which manifested as living creatures, despite Seren's attempts to keep her calm and happy.
These creatures became known as the Dreams of Mah, of which the Mahjarrat tribe is the most impactful to the story. To keep Mah calm and alive, Seren sought to restore the energy Mah used to create the Dreams my impersonating her and manipulating the Mahjarrat and other tribes to ritual sacrifice one of their own to rejuvenate Mah. This act of deception led to the diminishment and eventual extinction of all but the Mahjarrat and the latter's rise to becoming a brutal and warlike people. Mah's nightmares eventually grew worse and began to coalesce as monstrous creatures that frightened worshippers away from Mah's resting place. At this point, Seren realized that there was truly nothing more she could do for Mah and made the difficult decision to abandon her mother much like Zaros had. Knowing her departure would cause Mah to get even worse, Seren disguised herself as Mah and taught the surviving tribes of Freneskae a ritual of energy transferal that would draw in excess energy from Mah and allow them to breed, in turn allowing them to continue their cycle of sacrifice to keep Mah alive.
Seren then left Freneskae and began wondering the universe like Zaros had in hopes of finding new life she could make into her new family. Eventually, she came upon the world of Tarddiad, home of the elves and a world alight with crystals. She grew quickly grew infatuated with the elves' ability to perfectly coexist with their world and studied them for a while before making contact. Taking a crystalline form to better connect with the elves, they quickly grew to love her and made Seren their patron goddess. She would take pieces from herself and teach the elves to sing them into many different shapes as both tools and weapons, yet grew sorrowful that the elves had short lifespans and would eventually die. In an effort to help her people, Seren performed perhaps the greatest regret in her life and tied the elven lifespan to her very being. While this greatly expanded elven lifespans, it made them grow sick and weak in her absence to the point they would waste away without her. Seren began looking for a solution to this problem when one fateful day Guthix, god of balance, came upon Tarddiad after his own ascension to godhood and escaping her dying home world.
Guthix invited her and the elves to the perfect world of Gielinor during the 1st Age, where Seren shaped a piece of her into elven form, named Haluned, and sent her to scout and discover the other Elder Gods rested there. Believing Elder energy and artifacts could help her break her influence over the elves, Seren tried to bring them to Gielinor, but found them reluctant to abandon their home. In an action she later came to regret, Seren abandoned her people for a short time to manipulate them into following her to a new world through the World Gate Guthix had created. Yet many elves simply chose not to follow Seren, so she left them behind on Tarddiad to eventually devolve into insanity in order to protect the majority of the elven race that did go with her. Regardless, Seren gave a piece of herself to the remaining eight clans, created the Tower of Voices to always be in touch with them, and founded Gielinor's first city called Prifddinas. Over the following centuries, Seren fell deeply in love with Guthix and the pair worked to better the lives of any race that came to Gielinor. Guthix eventually left the world content and fell into a deep slumber while Seren stayed to keep watch over the elves.
Beginning the 2nd Age, more gods began to arrive and Seren began trying to ween the elves off of her power by exposing volunteers from Clan Iorwerth to dark energy to counteract her light energy. The Iorwerth began growing enamored of this dark aspect of Seren so she detached it and cast it down into a temple deep beneath the nearby mountain range. As Zaros's empire spread in east, Seren created a pact of isolation that kept the elves in their forests in the far west and soon became forgotten my most of the other races. Much later came the fall of Zaros and the start of the 3rd Age and the God Wars. Seren had made a promise to Guthix to stay out of the Wars and the elves only defended their lands from invaders, but the Wars ended with the destruction of most of the continent and Guthix awoke very pissed off. Guthix created the Edicts that cast the gods out of Gielinor and Seren, despite not fighting, was not exempt. Despite deeply caring for Seren, Guthix's convictions were stronger and he asked she leave as well. Seren knew leaving would kill the elves, so she chose to essentially commit suicide by shattering herself into countless crystal shards that littered the elven forests. In this way, she could help keep the elves satiated while also slowly weening them off her energy and satisfy Guthix's demands to leave, with her death breaking his heart in the process.
Now in the 4th Age, the elves aren't sure what to do without Seren's guidance, so the Iorwerth clan fully abandon Seren's worship and begin serving the Dark Lord, the dark aspect of Seren she cast out long ago. This results in an extended civil war where Lord Iorwerth seals away Prifddinas into a crystal seed and begins hunting and exterminating the other clans. In the 5th age and the game proper, a bunch of stuff happens in the elf quest series (which I'll cover in more detail in another effort post down the line) that sees the Iorwerth clan defeated, the Dark Lord subdued, and Prifddinas restored. After that, Guthix is murdered and the gods can return in new 6th Age, so the eight clans begin working together to gather all of Seren's shards and restore her. The player helps to gather the shards but they don't prove enough to fully restore Seren as she still lacks her divine soul. The player takes her body to Freneskae where Zaros helps to restore her soul and bring her fully back to life, to which Seren tells the player to not trust Zaros regardless of his actions. The player has to make one final decision on whether or not to restore the Dark Lord aspect to Seren, but doing so is pretty much the absolute right decision as not doing so leaves her greatly weakened in the future. Now restored, Seren returns to the Elves but humbly states that she will no longer be their goddess, but their servant and voice of reason and advice.
Later on, Zaros makes his plot of draining Mah for the Mahjarrat and Seren arrives as she heard her mother's cries of pain. After saving the player from falling into lava, she sends them into Mah's nightmares to prevent her power from destroying Freneskae. Zaros's ritual eventually leaves Mah in a near death state and irrecoverable coma, so an utterly sorrowful Seren sends a wave of energy through her mother and gives her a merciful gift of death. Enraged, she confronts Zaros and states she will now forever after be his enemy and work to undo his ambitions. During Sliske's game for the Stone of Jas, Seren works to unmake all her brother's schemes to get the Stone. In the Zaros effort post, I talked about how he manipulates the other younger gods to turn over the Stone, yet a fully restored Seren can break all his contracts. She will undo his demonic pact with Zamorak, promise Armadyl's people a home and refuge on Tarddiad, and reveal to Saradomin she had her agents rescue his kidnapped daughter from Zaros's servants. After the Stone is destroyed by Kerapac, she aids the player in battle against Sliske and is there to see the meeting with Jas and promises to aid the player in satisfying the Elder Gods' judgement of mortal life.
Afterwards, Seren is shown to be a surprisingly skilled diplomat by gathering all the various leaders and powers of the world to a meeting to discuss how to appease the Elder Gods. Seren sought to create a garden to symbolize mortal unity, but Kerapac comes in with a plan to put them to sleep forever. However, his plans turn out to drain Gielinor of anima and kill the Elder Gods and the rest of the world in the process. She would later help to track down Kerapac and arrange a meeting between the player and Jas, who gave the player means to make Kerapac vulnerable and defeat him. In the meantime, the Elder God eggs begin to awaken and Zaros makes his grand plan to ascend Elder godhood, so Seren rallies an alliance of gods to stop him from tearing open a portal to the Shadow Realm. When his forces are defeated, Zaros arrives himself and confronts Seren. Despite coming to hate him, Seren still cannot bring herself to actually harm her family and doesn't stop Zaros from endangering the world by opening the rift. Which is where we meet the current extent of the story with Seren and Zaros, with her ready to undo his future plans at every step even if she seems unwilling to kill her brother.
Is she magnificent?
Seren is a wise, compassionate, motherly goddess that is every bit as charming as you would expect a Light Is Good deity to be, and she more than shows she is able to keep up with Zaros in the manipulation game by beating him a few times. She is also has a streak of more immoral manipulation when she truly has a belief it's the best thing for everyone. So she's plenty smart and charismatic.
Is she a bitch?
This is the tougher bit, as Seren is mostly depicted as one of the more unambiguously good gods in the setting. Nonetheless, she has her moments of extreme immorality when it comes to protecting those she immediately cares about. Between tricking the Mahjarrat into a cycle of birth and sacrifice to keep her barely sentient mother alive and forcing the elves into following her to Gielinor by leveraging their dependence on her, she certainly can't be called wholly good. Admittedly, all the horrible things she did are things she is shown to deeply regret and would take back if she could, yet letting her brother get away with his scheme at the end because she still couldn't bring herself to hurt him still shows she's not completely over it.
Any mitigating factors?
Seren certainly made great mistakes throughout her life and can be brought to strong emotion, yet she always seeks to move forward and correct her failings. While seemingly still too good for this trope, I still believe she's done enough immoral deeds to qualify and is shown to have not completely moved past them.
Final Verdict?
When I went in thinking about who might qualify, I didn't first consider Seren. Yet reading up and reviewing everything she's done made me confident enough to effort post her and give her a .
Edited by LoreDeluxe on Aug 25th 2021 at 8:08:39 AM
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Seren.
Seren
here's my writeup
- Arrow: "Home Invasion": "Mr. Blank" is an assassin hired by a Corrupt Corporate Executive to kill a family he scammed to prevent them from suing him. While Blank manages to kill the parents, however their son, Taylor, escapes. As Taylor has seen Blank's face, he cannot allow the boy to live. After Laurel takes Taylor into protective custody, he uses a stolen police badge to try and access Laurel's apartment. After his former boss is arrested, Blank enters the precinct posing as his lawyer and kills him via a Pressure Point. After Taylor is moved to Queen Mansion, Blank uses a pizza delivery boy to make the guards open the door, then shoots through him to kill the guards. Blank also cuts the power so he can move stealthily in the dark, managing to sneak up on Oliver Queen. Never dropping his polite facade or showing any sadism, Blank carries out his kills with strict professionalism.
Unofficial co-Wiki Curator for Magnificent Bastard
To Seren. BTW, when do we begin posing our MB entries to the YMMV page (assuming enough approval was gained)?
Once the curator moves it to a sandbox after being satisfied with what was written.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]")
Mirage
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."