During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
- Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.
- What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
- Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
- Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
- Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
- Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
- Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.
- What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.
- Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.
- What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
- Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
- Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
- List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
- The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.
- How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.
- What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.
- What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.
- What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.
- Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.
- What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.
- Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.
- What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.
- Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.
- My example/edit has been approved, but the example subpage is locked! How do I get it added?: The moderators do not add examples to locked example subpages in the MagnificentBastard/ namespace directly. Rather, you need to do the edit to a sandbox page that follows the format Sandbox.MagnificentBastard<Name of the example subpage> (e.g for MagnificentBastard.Fullmetal Alchemist it's Sandbox.Magnificent Bastard Fullmetal Alchemist) and on a Friday, ask in the locked pages edit requests thread for the content to be swapped in.
Thread rules
When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.
Resolved items
In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.
However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.
This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.
Definitely an MB
- Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers: Any sadism Darkrai displays is limited in effect thanks to the game's nature and any cowardice which can be inferred about him is Alternative Character Interpretation about his tactical retreats.
- Avatar: The Last Airbender: Azula's Villainous Breakdown is undone in the sequel comic Smoke & Shadow where she regains her composure and ends up stable and in control enough to count.
Definitely not an MB
- South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM
Goku Black
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Nocturnal
Abstain on robot till it's trimmed.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Gotta love Jaws!
I'll abstain on Robot until I can read the entire EP.
Edited by Amanofmanyinterests on Feb 4th 2021 at 5:52:42 AM
"For a second there, I mistook ya for a threat... but you're just a dirty little man!"
That Blue Inkling
Well, since Zelus was approved as MB, I need to create edit: To The Other Media, under "Web Animation":
- Onyxking67's Mario Bloopers: Broken Computer Arc and Zelus Arc: Titular Zelus the Inkling was meant to be Onyxking67's Splatoon Original Character, but he abandoned her when SMG4 made same thing. Obsessed by revenge, she breaks SMG4's computer and force Waluigi to Frame-Up Onyxking67 in it, thereby force them fight with each other. When Ashley make them peace, Zelus waiting for Mario and comes in real world with him. Year later, she unites with EM64. Later, forcing Wario to sell Mario Bros. tickets in her mansion, where she disguised herself as "Scary" and promised to give them prize, only to reveal herself and kidnap Luigi. Later, she forcing Wario to kidnap many inklings, after whay she create their evil clones. Then, she come at party in castle, where she disguised herself as Anime-Waifu and turn most of people on party in trophies, take over Mushroom Kingdom and gave everything to EM64. When Memesistance and Peach's resistance defeat EM64, she teleport EM64 and revealed to them her plan: use bomb to kill they and herself. After being defeated, she show to whole Memesistance their worst nightmares, if not including Grasshopper, whose eyes and ears was protected by mask. When Zelus get it, she defeats her in fight and almost killed, but was stopped by "Jotaro Mario". Before she was killed by him, she tries to kill Onyxking67, but changing her mind. Charismatic and Determined, Zelus is probably the most dangerous enemy, with who Onyxking67's gang ever faced.
Edited by MikeySpletzer on Feb 4th 2021 at 4:42:50 PM
MeeM
That Blue Inkling
Fix it, if you found mistakes.
MeeM
Goku Black
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Please trim that and take it to the get help with English thread. It's a legit mess.
That Blue Inkling
Is that long enough?
MeeM
Gotta love Jaws!
@Mikey Usually they want it to be two hundred words or less. If you want, I can help you with grammar and trimming it down?
"For a second there, I mistook ya for a threat... but you're just a dirty little man!"
Evolution Requires Sacrifice.
That needs to be trimmed down. Take it to the Get Help With English Here thread
That Blue Inkling
Fine, I will try.
MeeM
to Jagar Tharn, Dreylan Scarab and Nocturnal.
Leaning to to Robot.
Here are my write ups for The Elder Scrolls. I'll put them on the sandbox page Scraggle created and we'll touch it up.
- The Elder Scrolls: Arena: Jagar Tharn was once the closest advisor to Emperor Uriel Septim yet secretly had his own grand designs for Tamriel. Becoming the Imperial Battlemage, Tharn fed into the Emperor's ambitions to cause aggressive expansion throughout the Empire and satisfied his ego by appearing as a weak councilor when Septim became suspicious. Stealing the powerful Staff of Chaos, Tharn trapped the Emperor in Oblivion and used illusions to take his place on the throne to intentionally weaken the Empire for Mehrunes Dagon. Tharn then drained the staff and broke it into pieces he hid throughout Tamriel to ensure it couldn't be used against him, yet the Eternal Champion escaped from Tharn's prison and did just that. Coming to see the Champion as a worthy foe, Tharn fought valiantly to the very end and managed to leave a legacy of distrust in the Septim Dynasty.
- The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind: Hlaalu Helseth is the cunning son of dark elf Queen Barenziah who always plotted to make a throne of his own. First using blackmail and subtle threats against his step sister Elysana in a failed bid for Wayrest, he and his mother returned to their homeland of Morrowind where Helseth poisoned his uncle and cousin to become king in Mournhold. A master manipulator, he used elaborate plots to rid his court of spies and assassins against key threats to solidify his position on the throne. Eventually sending the Dark Brotherhood against the Nerevarine, Helseth is confronted by them yet turns the hero to his side to root out plots against him in the Tribunal Temple and Dunmer nobility. Eventually growing suspicious of Almalexia herself, Helseth uses the Nerevarine to infiltrate her inner circle and eventually kill her to secure his imperial-backed throne would be the sole power in Morrowind.
Thanks Lore and I'll wait on trimming/cleaning for the Robot EP and Mikey's writeup before I vote/get ready to edit it and whatnot.
Bout to start work so I'll probably be scarce for a while!
For the record Scraggle, I slighty edited the first sentence of the Hermaeus Mora write up to make it more consistent with the rest of the entries.
Over the next few weeks, I'll be throwing out more Elder Scrolls candidates to see what sticks. I will avoid obvious non keepers but I'll give it a shot with those I think might actually work.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Going to trim and re-post the Robot EP since you guys have problems reading it due to it's length.
What is the Work?
Invincible is a superhero comic by Robert Kirkman of The Walking Dead fame, published by Image comics. It centers on Mark Grayson, the superhero known as Invincible, and the son of Nolan and Debbie Grayson, the former a mild mannered sci fi writer who...is secretly the world' greatest superhero Omni-Man and Mark finds out day his powers have manifested. Nolan is a member of the seemingly benevolent Viltrumite race, advanced superpowered humanoid aliens who spread peace and justice across the galaxy.
In reality, turns out the Viltrumites are a warmongering race that have destroyed entire worlds in the past, and one of their own members, horrified at their actions, created a virus that destroyed almost the entirety of their civilization. Nolan was sent to earth to infiltrate it and facilitate it's takeover. He makes his move early on and kills a good chunk Earth's top superheroes, wanting Mark to join him. Now Mark refuses to join him and Nolan beats him to a pulp, but can't bring himself to kill his son, leaving the Earth in shame.
Now, despite being set up as a potential Big Bad, Nolan actually redeems himself very early on and the comic series has a couple of key arc villains. Through it settles down to a few major recurring villains in the end, one of them being our candidate, who can be described as: What if Robot from Doom Patrol went Iron Man, and then went full Doctor Doom?
Who is he?
Rudolph Conners, known to the public as the Superhero Robot, is the leader of the Teen Team, a group of teenage superheroes.
What does he do?
While fighting the super-villains known as the Mauler Twins, Robot and the other members of the Teen Team run into Invincible. Initially he and the Teen Team are involved in some superhero stuff teaming up with Invincible.
Following Nolan's murder of the other heroes, Robot was appointed the head of a new Guardians of the G Lobe by Director of Global Defense Agency Cecil Stedman (through he eventually loses this position to a revived Immortal). Many issues later we learn that Robot is not actually a pure machine, but a deformed fetus that is unable to interact with the outside world due to a degenerative condition. He needs machines to interact with the world, and begins the process of rebuilding his body. To do so, he takes a DNA sample from hero Rex Splode to form the basis for his new body, presumably because his teammate Monster girl, who he is attracted to, finds that body attractive. He recruits the Mauler Twins to build his new body. After that was done Mauler Twins demand payment, but Robot reveals he had fooled the Maulers with promises of payment and subsequently uses a gigantic robotic drone to defeat the Maulers. When Rex dies during the Invincible War, Rudolph takes up his name in honor.
Many issues later, during a battle with extradimensional beings called Flaxans, Rudolph and Monster Girl chase the Flaxans to their home dimension where they seek to tear down the Flaxan Empire from within. Taking advantage of the fact that time passes slower for humans to the point a human can live for millennia there, Rudolph and Amanda(Monster Girl's real name) initiate a centuries long plot to bring the Flaxans to their knees. Following an earlier failed revolt initiated by Rudolph, Rudolph uses the rebuilding of an city he and Amanda were tasked with as a means to manipulate the Flaxans into sending more workers by spreading stories of their successes. He will then tell them stories of him and Monster Girl's initial failed revolt, which sways them to their side.
Eventually they succeed and Rudolph becomes the new Emperor of the Flaxans. He and Amanda decline to return to Earth, seeing that they're needed here. Rudolph tries his best to rule fairly bur his rule has a dark side. He punishes the Flaxan ruling class, represented by the Zaxal family, with work in the Slave mines. At the same time, he and Amanda's relationship starts to strain, with the latter discovering her bisexuality and having an affair with a Zaxal sympathizer. She helps the Zaxals attempt a coup on Rudolph, initially they succeed but the Zaxals attempt to return the Flaxans to their evil ways and she realizes that Rudolph was right about them. She breaks Rudolph out of jail and they remove the Zaxals from power. They then return to earth after 700 years in the Flaxan dimension, with one of Rudolph's last acts being to order the purge of the Zaxals and all their loyalists.
Upon returning to Earth, Rudolph becomes the coordinator of every superhero team on the planet, but his relationship with Amanda is very strained, especially in light of the affair she had with the Zaxal woman. Eventually, back in the Flaxan dimension, the Zaxals take over again and attack the Earth, Rudolph calls in every available superhero and superhero team on the planet, then suits up in one of his own construct armors and enters the battle against the Flaxans himself as Robot. Despite it being revealed that the leader of the Zaxals was Monster Girl’s son with the Zaxal woman, Rudolph discovers that he still loves Amanda, and they get back together at the end of the Flaxan invasion arc.
Rudolph would eventually, after Dinosaurs’ final plan to wipe out civilization, build two artificial moons to rotate around the Earth to restore the tide levels, which was really screwed over by Dinosaurs. Despite this however, Invincible gets all the credit for saving the world from Dinosaurus' attacks despite being willing to work with Dinosaurus in the past, while he gets no credit despite being the one who constructed the artificial moons that reverted the flood waters. This leads to Rudolph starting to resent Mark.
During a trip to an alternate reality to track down Angstrom Levy, one of Mark’s more personal enemies who was captured by one of the Mirrorverse!Invincibles, Robot became aware that in many, many dimensions in the multiverse, Mark turns evil. Knowing this causes Robot’s resentment and fear of Mark to boil over, activating a device to stun both versions of Invincible in inconceivable pain. Robot then kills the Mirrorverse!Invincible and Angstrom before escaping the mirror dimension.
Invincible manages to escape with the help of that Dimension’s Rudolph. During that time however, Rudolph has created a new army, and gained Cecil's permission to access the Global Defense Agency emergency protocols, wanting to analyze and prepare for them when he eventually makes his move. When Mark returns and warns Cecil, Cecil tries to revoke the protocol access for Rudolph, only for Rudolph to kill him by slicing his head off and stomping on it.
Robot then launches a purge, with his drones killing a large number of heroes. During this time, Monster Girl confronts Robot and the latter tells the former to join him. She refuses and Robot reluctantly shoots her out into space, but is very, very remorseful at doing so. Upon hearing that the Viltrumites have saved Monster Girl, Rudolph establishes links to Omni-Man, who has ascended to the throne of their empire following his ouster of Thragg. Despite Mark’s protests, Nolan establishes an alliance between the Viltrumites and Robot.
With the majority of Earth's superheroes either captured or dead, or even gone over to Robot’s side, and the Viltrumites now working with him, the world leaders gives Robot almost absolute control over Earth, essentially making Robot the Shadow Dictator of the planet. And...he isn’t that tyrannical of a ruler. He deals effectively with many villains and creates a utopia without war or poverty. The relative light-handedness of his rule makes it hard for any resistance to be sustained against him, with many of his former enemies simply giving up and willingly joining Rudolph when they find out what he's done. This chain of events causes Invincible to leave Earth with his family, seeing that he is no longer needed and that no one is willing to turn against Rudolph.
Five years later Invincible returns to Earth, which has just successfully withstood an extra-dimensional invasion thanks to Rudolph and Nolan’s efforts. Invincible tries to get Nolan to see his side of things, claiming that Rudolph may have staged a False Flag Attack with the invasion to manipulate people into “coming together” in subservience(the comic offers no evidence if Mark is telling the truth). Nolan disagrees, saying that Rudolph has made Earth very hospitable for the surviving Viltrumites. Rudolph tries to get Mark to see his point of view as well, which Mark rejects yet again.
Rudolph does not appear again until the final arc of the series, when Invincible lures Thragg to Earth to enlist the surviving Viltrumites’ help against Thragg. Rudolph participates in the battle against Thragg and sends a suit of armor for Mark when he is fighting Thragg. When Thragg’s empire is defeated, but at the cost of Nolan’s life, Robot turns against the Viltrumites, seeing that Mark would be a future threat. He reveals that he has the children of the Viltrumites held captive and uses them as a bargaining chip to convince the Viltrumites to stand down; there being also the implication he seeks to convert them into soldiers when they are much older. This however, convinces the Viltrumites that Robot needs to be stopped. Mark chases Robot to earth and rallies all the heroes and Viltrumites to his side. There, Robot is defeated after a clash between his Drones and the entire Superhero community. In his last moments, Rudolph claims that without him, the world will fall back to chaos once again. Mark kills him anyways, but understanding that Robot did genuinely create a better world, decided to keep Robot’s mind alive in a supercomputer deep in the Pentagon so he can continue to share his ideas to the world, only this time these ideas will be filtered through The Immortal so Robot can’t use this as an opportunity to exert control again.
In the epilogue, we see Amanda and the Immortal talking in the room Rudolph’s mind is in. Rudolph tries to talk to Amanda, only for her to reject him for good. Rudolph accepts his fate and perhaps recognizing that at the end, his desire for power and to “fix” the world had only driven away all those he cared about.
What makes the character a Magnificent Bastard?
Well Rudolph/Rex/Robot is, apart from being very smart, perfectly willing to use others to get what he wants, disposing them if need be. We see this even before he launches his coup on the Guardians when he tricks two supervillains into repairing his body. He also sucessfully destroys a Empire of extradimensional slavers from within by tricking said Empires to send more slaves to help him and inspiring slaves with his failed first revolt against the Emperor.
And as the Shadow Dictator of Earth? He actually provides a good quality of life for his subjects. The lack of genuine tyranny in his rule over Earth was the reason why a good chunk of heroes simply decided to throw in the towel, and why Marc, who was already angsting over his trust of Dinosaurs and the damage he caused with superpowers, decided to leave Earth with his family. This was also probably why his mind was preserved after Mark killed his body.
Too much of a bastard?
Ok so regarding his more bastardly acts he enslaves the entire ruling class of the Flaxan Empire and purges them before returning to earth, including the woman Amanda was in an affair with. This was why the Zaxals sought vengeance on Earth: their leader was Amanda and the Zaxal woman’s son. He tried to trap Invincible in an Mirror Universe and launched a coup against the Global Defense Agency, killing many heroes. When Thragg is lured to Earth, he kidnaps the children of the Viltrumites with the goal of eventually turning them into an unstoppable army to fight against Thragg. His last act is to turn against Invincible and using the Viltrumite children as a bargaining chip to get them to stand down, this turns the Superhero community and the Viltrumites against him.
However, for me, most of these actions have a purpose to them. The Flaxans existed as a slave empire raiding from dimension to dimension to extract slaves and wealth. Rudolph wanted to turn them into a force for good, but when his actions started to stagnate the economy, he deployed the Zaxals as slaves to develop the economy because he wanted an alternative that would not cause the Flaxans to revert to their warlike ways. Purging the Zaxals before returning to Earth is bad, but we don’t really see the insight on why he does this, and given the fact that the first thing the Zaxals do upon launching their attempted second coup is attempt to revert the Flaxans to their expansionist ways, perhaps he could potentially see the Zaxals as an obstacle to peace in the dimension.
Now his attempt at seizing power was very brutal, but we never see his drones attack and target civilian targets, they generally tried to focus solely on targeting the heroes opposed to him. He does kill Cecil in a very gore-y and cut off one of Eve’s legs, but this is a series where Gorn and body parts exploding happens on an issue-y basis and the main character was horrifically mutilated and bloodied many times before. Even his abducting Viltrumite children has a purpose in itself, he sees Mark as an enemy and Mark has stated time and time again that he would never join him, he also knows the strong bonds Viltrumites have built with humans and perhaps mistakenly believes that abducting Viltrumite children could turn them into bargaining chips to get them to oppose Mark.
He also has some redeeming qualities to soften the bastardry. He genuinely sees himself as benefiting the rest of the world and seems to genuinely love Amanda, he expresses remorse at having to airlock Amanda and expresses relief when she is alive with it being clear that he wanted someone to save her; it is his reluctance to harm Amanda that does him in during the final battle. He also genuinely didn’t want to fight Mark. In the end of issue 114, there is a scene where he thinks back to the past adventures he’s had with the heroes he had to kill or alienate and he puts his face to his hands in shame at what he did, which indicates remorse.
Other Mitigating Factors?
Now at one point he was listed under The Scrappy on Invincible, which may be an issue. But after looking into the Reddit for Invincible as well as some Youtube comments, I can conclude that said entry was misplaced and that Robot does have enough of a fan following to avoid being labeled a scrappy. So I removed it.
Now there are allegations that his arc sounds very Villain Sue-y. However, while you can disagree, I don’t really see it. Part of the reason why he comes off as being extremely successful is that we never see what his rule is like apart from a few glimpses,with most of the post-coup chapters focusing on Mark and his family settling in Space. As for how he took power, I think there are a few panels that mention that Mark was trapped in the other Earth for Six months, and Cecil granted him access to the emergency protocols, and there was a panel where he mentions building a new type of Drone for launching a coup. So I think theres some enough of a time gap to make his takeover and preparations plausible, rather than him being handed wins inexplicably and for no reason.
Verdict?
You decide.
Edited by xie323 on Feb 4th 2021 at 10:54:09 AM
Goku Black
Better.
Robot
I'm good with Robot. any plans to try for Cecil?
Regarding Cecil
Not sure because I haven't read the rest of the Image Comics works set in the invincible universe.
In the Invincible Comics themselves, Cecil comes off as extremely overconfident, thinking he can work with forces beyond his control, as seen when he tries to hold a alien supervillain like Conquest in maximum security, only for him to escape, and trusting Rudolph/Rex until it was too late. Now he does turn on Robot in his last moments, but and it was implied he was naive about Robot until the very end.
He does do some shady stuff like using villains for the greater good as well, and Mark comes around to some of his ideas, and some of his plans like recruiting Sinclair did have good results, but I think he bites off a bit more than he can chew in the Invincible comics themselves
Now it could be a situation in the Witcher games where we had people that qualified as CM or MB when taking into account the universe itself, so it is possible that the Image Comics Universe, if we take in some other miniseries or series where he is featured in, he could qualify, but in Invincible he comes off as way too naive and overconfident.
If I ever get to reading the other Image Comics works where he appears in, I might reevaluate him
Edited by xie323 on Feb 4th 2021 at 9:16:36 AM
Yes to Robot! Thanks for obliging with the trim xie!
That Blue Inkling
Everyone (If not including Melinda) from GHWEH forum ran somewhere.
Edited by MikeySpletzer on Feb 4th 2021 at 8:16:47 PM
MeeM
Tharn, Nocturnal, Scarab. Will read Robot later.
The wifi here sucks
Woagh
to Robot. Could use a more creative name, though.
It could use a trim, but since I read the whole thing already,![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]")
Robot