Honestly, with a name like this, it's a miracle anyone's managed to keep the "hot" part. This may be a preexisting term (although not one I've ever heard), but it's horribly vague.
Tropes Are Flexible. It's about a specific form of Fanservice involving well-endowed women in tight sweaters. Unless you can show misuse, I don't think we need to make any changes.
Really from Jupiter, but not an alien....how is this even a trope?
It's an old form of fanservice and one of Attraction Tropes.
edited 5th Oct '13 4:29:07 PM by XFllo
If we're going to use it as "This girl is wearing a sweater! Isn't that sexy?", then I'd argue it's not at all necessary. Seems way too pervy. Hell, just look at the image caption:
This seems like a pretty clear trope to me. Apart from a vague name I'm not seeing a problem here.
Well, if nothing else, removing pervy comments like the image caption is definitely in order.
Insert witty 'n clever quip here.I really doubt Girl Wearing A Sweater counts as a trope.
I thought Attraction Tropes dealt tropes about In-universe attractiveness. I don't think this is one of them.
Mm-hmm. It's creepy gushing.
Trust me, it's a legitimately "credited" form of fan-service, especially in Manga and Anime.
Does look it could just use a quick misuse clean-up though.
And how is the caption pervy(unless it's been changed already)
edited 5th Oct '13 6:39:15 PM by shoboni
Look, all I'm saying is that we don't need creepy fan gushy stuff on here. There's a reason we purged the Fetish Fuel pages from the site long ago and there's a reason we don't allow examples on pages to gush about how much the writer wants to gush on someone. Is there any way we can make this a legitimate in-universe trope and can limit it accordingly so that we can avoid creepiness?
And it's been changed, thank God. The original caption was quoted in my first post above. *shudder*
edited 5th Oct '13 6:45:12 PM by Odd1
Insert witty 'n clever quip here.Not seeing how the fanservice part isn't already covered by Form-Fitting Wardrobe.
I just read through several sections of the examples. Each and every example I saw was literally pretty much just "This character/person wears [a] sweater[s] [in This Work].
This is pretty much just People Sit On Chairs here.
EDIT: Here's all the examples from the bottow few sections of the page. Nothing here of value, maybe literally one or two that actually are relevant to the preexisting term:
- Judith Mossman in Half-Life 2. Concerned pointed this out a couple times.
- Arcuied Brunestud, showing that vampires don't have to wear leather to be sexy.
- In the pseudo-sequel Kagetsu Tohya, Hisui and Arcueid switch clothes at one point. Hisui fits the part quite well.
- Rider from Fate/stay night in her 'civilian' guise. Combined with Mega Nekko for that extra little fetish twist, and the end result is just... wow.
- Angela Victoire Bledin from Princess Waltz wears this as part of her civilian attire.
- Naomi Hunter in the original Metal Gear Solid even had a fanservice photoshoot mode of her turtleneck, although ever since the fourth game, people associate her with Absolute Cleavage.
- Zola from Girl Genius.
- Ax Crazy pirate queen Dupree also favors this.
- Galatea's Parisian striped sweater in The Inexplicable Adventures of Bob!.
- Mora from Las Lindas pulls this off occasionally.
- Velma Dinkley in Scooby-Doo, at least after her subtle redesign in What's New, Scooby-Doo? and the more recent animated features. This to the point she wears one over her dress to the prom in Scooby-Doo! Mystery Incorporated.
- Mabel in Gravity Falls has an unlimited amount of sweaters, bonus points for being custom made.
- Mina in Grojband is always seen wearing her sweater.
- Annette Funicello promised Walt Disney not to wear a bikini (so she really didn't in all her beach movies), but had no problems wearing tight sweaters once in a while.
- There is a famous quote attributed to Marilyn Monroe (on a USO-type visit). She was asked, "What do you think of sweater girls?" Her reply: "Not much, I mean take away their sweaters and what have they got?" The troops went so wild she couldn't get off the stage (this was likely just to excite the guys, as she also was a sweater girl early in her career).
- Lana Turner wore tight sweaters in her films and some publicity shots.
- Jane Russell also wore sweaters in films and publicity.
- Sonja Henie was one of the earliest.
- Yoko Ono liked to wear sweaters, especially combined with big sunglasses.
- Barbara Windsor reportedly used to be one long before she got into acting. In interviews she has described breaking up couples as a shoe shop assistant while reaching for high shelves and wearing a tight sweater.
- After Prince William and Kate Middleton finished their wedding, they went to a private party, and Kate changed out of her Fairytale Wedding Dress to another white dress with a white angora cardigan.
- Victoria Beckham is apparently portrayed as one in her Twitter icon◊.
- Knitters know this trope well. Note some of the many knitting pattern sites on the web. Sweater guys look pretty good, too. http://elitistview.blogspot.ca/2011/01/mens-fashion-knitted-scarves-with-torn.html
- Reese Witherspoon: http://www.marieclaire.com/celebrity-lifestyle/celebrities/reese-witherspoon-cover#slide-10
edited 5th Oct '13 6:49:30 PM by Odd1
Insert witty 'n clever quip here.Oh, and I just realized, this is supposed to be a fanservice trope? Then why do we have a prepubescent girl in the examples?
- Mabel in Gravity Falls has an unlimited amount of sweaters, bonus points for being custom made.
The examples were what I looked at and it seemed to be the case.
Okay, putting down my torch and pitchfork for a second, is there any way at all anyone can think we can salvage this page? Or should we just torch 'n trash here?
Insert witty 'n clever quip here.Well, to be fair even under its current definition a trope like this shouldn't have had a real life section in the first place.
edited 5th Oct '13 6:55:55 PM by captainpat
Even discounting the real life section, practically none of the examples are anything beyond "This character in this work wears sweaters." Or "Work: [[imagelink Character]]."
EDIT: Here's more. Again, maybe two examples here that fit the bill? And even the ones that do seem to fit somewhat...they don't explain much, and there doesn't seem to even be a point in them being here.
- The girls of Archie Comics are prone to wearing the occasional tight sweater, especially Veronica.
- At the end of TRON, Lora wore a white angora sweater, seen in the picture above.
- In Lord Love a Duck, Barbara Ann (Tuesday Weld) wants sweaters so that she'll fit in with the 'in' crowd, and goes shopping for them with her father. The scene with her trying on the sweaters in front of him is rather disturbing.
- Kristen Bell's character in Fanboys refers to her breasts as "Sweater yams".
- As Corey in Empire Records, Liv Tyler wears a tight blue cropped sweater, which is featured prominently◊ on the poster.
- Explicitly pointed out to Goldie Hawn in Housesitter.
- Lana Turner in a bunch of movies starting with They Won't Forget. She was even called the Sweater Girl, which makes her the Trope Namer.
- In Walk the Line, Johnny Cash is quickly seduced backstage by a Sweater Girl Groupie.
- Reese Witherspoon
- Jennifer of Pleasantville once she gets Trapped in TV Land as "Mary Sue". She even comments on the effect of one such sweater in one scene.
- Tracy Flick in Election.
- Ed Wood pulls off a Wholesome Crossdresser version in his film Glen or Glenda, which is cheerfully reprised by Johnny Depp in the Biopic Ed Wood.
- One of the first uses of the new powers gained in Zapped was to make a girl's pink sweater pop open to reveal her (also pink) bra underneath.
- Susan Abbott wears a purple fuzzy sweater in Anchors Aweigh.
edited 5th Oct '13 7:04:45 PM by Odd1
Insert witty 'n clever quip here.Does anyone know what a joke is around here?
FTR, sweaters as fanservice predate manga and anime by decades, as the Wikipedia article linked on the page notes. It seems there was even a movie called Sweater Girl released in 1942. And this was definitely a way of Getting Crap Past the Radar back in the day, a way of showing off a curvy actress when neither nudity nor scenes with women wearing bras/lingerie were allowed. Go watch that scene from They Won't Forget (mentioned on the page) that made Lana Turner famous. Or the scenes with Janet Leigh in The Manchurian Candidate or Kim Novak as Judy in Vertigo.
As to whether Sweater Girl is a trope or not... if it isn't, then there are a lot of costuming Fanservice tropes that aren't really tropes. In fact, we have an entire index, Fanservice Costumes, which is about this (and for some reason doesn't include Sweater Girl, no idea why). It seems like we have a lot of precedent for regarding specific uses of "sexy woman in sexy clothing/outfit" as tropes.
I never said Sweater Girl wasn't a trope. I just think it's more specific what we current have. Also, lets not get sidetracked with other tropes, those can be dealt with later.
There may be misuse on the page. Certainly, a prepubescent girl like the one mentioned won't fit. The point seems to be that it is in theory relatively modest and functional clothing that tends to be fairly formfitting, thus allowing the author to have a curvy figure showed off by a woman who is not actually showing anything. Further, she may be of the type of personality too modest for flashier types of fanservice. That last part isn't actually an inherent part of the trope, I suppose, so much as why a writer might choose to use this type of fanservice.
So I'm not really seeing a problem with the trope. A problem with the tropers, perhaps, but not the trope.
edited 5th Oct '13 7:24:32 PM by Arha
If that's the definition of this trope then it needs to be renamed because none of the examples are written like that and I'm pretty sure it's not almost never used like that on the wicks.
Crown Description:
I think this trope is a lot broader then it should be. Sweater girl is a pre-existing term about women in sweaters wearing bullet bras to show some form of boobs. It rarely gets used in modern works unless it's a Period Piece.
Here it's seems to be defined as a hot girl in a sweater. I propose change it so it's more inline with the pre-existing term.