Do you have trouble remembering the difference between Deathbringer the Adorable and Fluffy the Terrible?
Do you have trouble recognizing when you've written a Zero-Context Example?
Not sure if you really have a Badass Bookworm or just a guy who likes to read?
Well, this is the thread for you. We're here to help you will all the finer points of example writing. If you have any questions, we can answer them. Don't be afraid. We don't bite. We all just want to make the wiki a better place for everyone.
Useful Tips:
- Make sure that the example makes sense to both people who don't know the work AND don't know the trope.
- Wrong: The Mentor: Kevin is this to Bob in the first episode.
- Right: The Mentor: Kevin takes Bob under his wing in the first episode and teaches him the ropes of being a were-chinchilla.
- Never just put the trope title and leave it at that.
- Wrong: Badass Adorable
- Right: Badass Adorable: Xavier, the group's cute little mascot, defeats three raging elephants with both hands tied behind his back using only an uncooked spaghetti noodle.
- When is normally far less important than How.
- A character name is not an explanation.
- Wrong: Full Moon Silhouette: Diana
- Right: Full Moon Silhouette: At the end of her transformation sequence into Moon Princess Misty, Diana is shown flying across the full moon riding a rutabaga.
Other Resources:
For best results, please include why you think an example is iffy in your first post.
Also, many oft-misused tropes/topics have their own threads, such as Surprisingly Realistic Outcome (here
) and Fan-Preferred Couple (here). Tropers are better able to give feedback on examples you bring up to specific threads.
For cleaning up examples of Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard, you must use their dedicated threads: Complete Monster Cleanup, Magnificent Bastard Cleanup.
Edited by Synchronicity on Sep 18th 2023 at 11:42:55 AM
"Thought this ancient piece of art is a shitpost" is not Mandela Effect, no.
Musician/Composer
Reposting from the previous page.
From Irene Belserion's section in Characters.Fairy Tail Alvarez Empire:
- Evil Cannot Comprehend Good: She clearly believed that King Toma would reject his daughter Hisui after she's turned into a mouse, much like how her husband turned on her once she started transforming into a dragon. Toma refusing to do this and tearfully proclaiming he still loves his daughter, leaves her dumbfounded and enraged.
- Kick the Dog: Best evidenced when she turns Princess Hisui into a mouse and proceeds to cruelly mock King Thoma, questioning if he can love a "disgusting rodent", even after he offered up his life for his daughter's safety. Irene does this for no good reason other than petty cruelty, since it gains her nothing.
I previously removed those examples from the page, but were re-added again (history is here). Are these valid examples or should they be removed?
the Retromancer
Sound valid to me at least
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Evil Cannot Comprehend Good is a partial-context example; it does not tell me she is evil (and not just kind of mean).
Does this fit Camp Wackyname, which I added to the page just now:
- Scooby-Doo and Scrappy-Doo, in its Three Shorts season of 1980-1983, had the episode "Tenderbigfoot", a Cryptid Episode, which aired on 31 October 1981. It was set in Camp Kickapoo, which sounds like a joke name or (as some of the British audience saw it and not getting the reference) a reference to kicking fecal matter, but is named for a Native American tribe. In a case of Aluminium Christmas Trees, there is a real Camp Kickapoo, but it's a private residential girls camp in Kerrville, Kerr County, Texas.
I would say it is an example, though the part about a real camp is some natter that I wouldn't include.
Also not sure about this trend of adding examples then seeing if they're okay to add.
I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
I also don't think you need all that extra information about when it aired and the like? It all obscures the actual trope.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Yes, I have noticed this as well. ~Merseyuser 1, please be wary of unnecessary information (we really don't need the years/networks/etc). In addition you should be sure an example fits before adding it, rather than leave something someone else might need to clean up in the future.
Edited by Synchronicity on Mar 24th 2022 at 5:17:27 AM
Also reposting from the previous page.:
Is this an appropriate use? Wrote this for YMMV.Lonelygirl15:
- They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot: The Grand Finale. It had great build-up: A Total Eclipse Of The Plot, a mysterious prophecy, the prospect of an encounter with Lord Carruthers, somebody doing something called "The Ascension". Then, during the finale, Sarah calls Jonas "the one" and that the Order needs him to fulfill the prophecy somehow, and... absolutely none of this is paid off. The eclipse, the prophecy, and the Ascension are all barely mentioned, much less explained, Sarah never elaborates on Jonas' significance to any of it, Lord Carruthers remains The Unfought, the climactic action sequence takes about three seconds and has the weak payoff of Sarah and her dad yelling at each other a couple times, and then it all ends with everybody just going home. Many fans feel this completely wasted the great setup the episode had.
Seems okay, but put the words "The Grand Finale" outside the spoiler tags. Then people reading the page know it's specifically a spoiler for the finale and can decide whether they want to look or not.
Goku Black
Does The Witcher actually count as a Low Fantasy work.
I found this rather long entry their
- The Witcher stories fit very much. There are non-human races like elves, dwarves, halflings, trolls, dopplers, and succubi, but they act more or less human, their fantastical attributes follow consistent and easily identifiable rules, and most of them are dominated by the humans (who are not above the occasional pogrom or two). Magic exists, but it's functional instead of fireworks wizard or king's healing power, and its users seem to spend most of their time plotting, Eminence Grise-ing, or basking in vanity. Said magic is known only by a handful of people and fairly modest in what it can do, meaning any given village, town, or battlefield will look nearly identical to its equivalent in real-world 14th century Europe (in fact in the game-only sequels, one of the greatest conquerors of the era is a man who entirely disregards all magic, including in war). Minor magic is contained in some potions and slightly enchanted objects (like swords) which are more common (more so among the nonhumans), but also even less impactful (in many cases basically just being a fantastical shortcut to a real-world object, e.g. a magic potion that mimics penicillin, another magic potion that's basically just an adrenaline shot, or a one-handed sword that due to its enchantment hits harder than normal but still not as hard as a regular two-handed axe). Most of the fantastical creatures hunted by the protagonists are treated like regular megafauna that just happen to have weird attributes to them (in Wild Hunt, for instance, it's explicitly stated in the Bestiary that a mere brown bear is as dangerous as most monsters). Those creatures that are genuinely magical fit the usual trend of being so in a modest and self-consistent way. There is no central Evil Overlord or Horde, most conflicts encountered by the heroes are with wild animals or small-time criminals, and the larger conflict comes from politicking between more or less realistic power-hungry nobles. The "good" category is inhabited by protagonists and their friends, and almost no one else (and the protagonists themselves have some Kick the Dog moments in their biographies). Also, fairy tale elements often show up in more-or-less their original forms only to be subjected to Dark Parody.
This is a work with dozens of magical creatures, plenty of magical practitioners, the main plot literally involves stopping the ice age and the ultimate bad guys are multiversal coconquerig elves.
All of this clashes with what the description says where it says the magical elements are supposed to be rare.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
♀ | Small ripples lead to big waves
So I'm considering adding an Animorphs example to Alternate Character Interpretation:
- Rhetorical questions are discouraged. How could I rephrase this?
- Does Alternate Character Interpretation have to be about a character as a whole, or can it be about specific actions they take as well?
Edited by NitroIndigo on Mar 25th 2022 at 10:33:58 AM
I'm helping!
Just to confirm we've got this right, The Bad Guy Wins is in fact intended to be exclusive to winning the whole war, not just individual battles, right?
No real way to explain details without spoiling at least a little bit but
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Maybe it could count since it is the final of a season.
the Retromancer
It's an Ending Trope that is "may fit for episodes' ending as well", which is something I'm also interested about. Also, I don't know about the war, but I've considered the trope as "villain is successful with their Evil Plan despite the interference", I don't know what the villain's plan was, but having superheroes on the loose doesn't sound like a win to me yet.
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Re: Low Fantasy
I only watch the show, but I think that world is a High Fantasy one (just one that focuses on gritty personal struggles rather than the Balance Between Good and Evil). Unlike something like A Song of Ice and Fire where magic is confined to pockets and everyone freaks out at the prospect of dragons, in The Witcher mages are a normal part of life, inter-fantasy-race politics matter a lot, and while no one knows much about magical creatures, they know they can ask a witcher to handle them.
(We aren't removing that image just for that though
)
Re:Alternative Character Interpretation
"There are several interpretations of [action]. One is that [option 1], meaning [how this affects their characterization]. Another is that [option 2], meaning [how this affects their characterization]."
Re:The Bad Guy Wins I don't think superheroes running around disqualify The Bad Guy Wins (As Long as There Is One Man, Hope Springs Eternal can happen just as well in a shitty situation), but what matters is how decisive. Did he basically achieve his Evil Plan except for a couple of missing pieces? Or did he just give the heroes a beating but they live to fight another day?
Edited by Synchronicity on Mar 25th 2022 at 11:05:56 AM
Angry babby
I've seen The Bad Guy Wins used for individual episodes and such before. No idea if that's correct.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
It's hard to give a general answer for whether or not that's correct. Does each episode have the same villain? Do they complete their evil plan in the middle of the season? etc
x8 Re: Low Fantasy - You are correct, that long, rambling example aside, The Witcher is absolutely not Low Fantasy. Cut that Wall of Text example.
—-
x7 Re: Alternate Character Interpretation - I will just quote from the first line of the trope description:
It is entirely about interpreting the character.
—-
x6 Re: The Bad Guy Wins - From my reading of the trope description, it could very apply to a story arc or set up a Sequel Hook. However, are we using "won a decisive victory" in its actual sense, i.e. a victory that actually "decides" the conflict?
Found this on Twilight Sparkle's character page while attempting to clean it up, ignoring the fact that this is not a character trope, are any of these even examples of Mythology Gag?
- Mythology Gag:
- Twilight's Twinkling Balloon is actually a shout out to the balloon in the "G3" toy line.
- Twilight Sparkle is a fairly direct cross of Powder, Twilight Twinkle and Twilight.
- Her mother Twilight Velvet, seen in "The Cutie Mark Chronicles" and "A Canterlot Wedding - Part 2" as well as in the Wave 4 Blind Bags, is very clearly based on the original Twilight, who was intended to be the original main character of Friendship is Magic
- However, T.V.'s Special Edition Blind Bag figure has a color scheme and cutie mark more similar to "G1" Glory than the original Twilight.
- Her father resembles Nachtlicht, a German-only Pony from "G1", a bit too much for comfort. It could be a genderswap Mythology Gag, similar to how Big Mac resembles "G3" Applejack. Or just the fact that the name and color scheme fit well into the family theme. The Gameloft game confirms this as Twilight's parents live in "Nightlight Boookbinding"
- In the first episode Twilight Sparkle gets invited to Moondancer's get-together. This is both a nod to the "G1" pony Moondancer and a Development Gag on the fact that Twilight was going to have a variation of Moondancer's cutie mark. It could also be a reference to the "G3" Moondancer but considering they're in Canterlot, which is mainly inhabited by Unicorns, it's probably the original Moondancer. On top of that, the pony saying this looks a lot like "G1" Moondancer herself. (Or rather, Baby Moondancer. But that's who most people think of when they think of Moondancer, because the adult version was a blink-and-miss background pony. Recently, the comics introduced a Moondancer who looks just like that one. Presumably, this is who the other Moondancer lookalike, now known as Twinkleshine, was referring to. They share a scene in the comic, which is Hilarious in Hindsight: the "G1" Moondancers, despite supposedly being mother and daughter, never appear together.)
- Twilight Sparkle can teleport. In My Little Pony 'N Friends, Unicorns can teleport (they call it "winking in" and "winking out"). The first Unicorn seen to teleport is "G1" Twilight, in the opening theme of "Rescue from Midnight Castle".
- Twilight herself mirrors Majesty in the British comics. Other unicorns could only really do one type of magic, like Fizzy being good at blowing bubbles out her horn, but Majesty had no such restrictions.
- It's easiest to see Twilight Sparkle's origin in the UK comic's Twilight, not the cartoon version: Comic Twilight is very reclusive, only seen at night and hiding in a magical mist when she must travel by day. And she, too, had an incredible range of spells unrestricted by the one-per-special-talent rule or the usual level of power seen with other unicorns. She was highly trusted by Majesty (and good luck finding the mysterious mare in the magical mist you're anyone else!) and was sometimes the only one who could handle something that would be a threat to anyone (or everyone!) else. Can you think of a Twilight who highly trusted by the godlike leader, has magic far above and beyond what other unicorns have, and (until recently, in terms of her life) doesn't socialize?
- There's also the other Twilight in "G1", a pegasus from "Flight to Cloud Castle." She is purple like Twilight Sparkle, and her cutie mark is a candle; an identical one is found on Twilight Sparkle's door! Especially now that she's an alicorn, she seems a fusion of the three Twilights: the magic and relationship with the ruler of comic Unicorn Twilight, the body color and wings of Pegasus Twilight, and a cutie mark and hair colors based on the G3 Earth Pony Twilight Twinkle. The three Twilights of the three races, all in one!
Im reminded of Empire Strikes Back and wonder if The Bad Guy Wins. It has Hans being carbonized and sent to Jabba while Luke loses his hand and battle with Vader. And the heroes are worst off then they started.
the Retromancer
It sounds like Darkest Hour more. Jabba may have won, but Vader haven't killed Luke, didn't think he's dead, and even (according to the forum, I don't remember it) taunts him telepathically for another round.
Edited by Amonimus on Mar 25th 2022 at 9:16:05 PM
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Lost in Space
Yeah, the bad guy hasn't won since his primary objective failed and his prisoners have all escaped. Han was not his primary target, and Boba Fett walked away with that "victory" anyway.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
No longer active.
(Was pointed here after making an ATT thread on the matter.)
I noticed that this point got removed from YMMV.Super Mario Odyssey by The Living Drawing:
- Sacred Cow: Super Mario Odyssey quickly reached this status much like its sister game The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild. The Mario franchise in general is a very strong Sacred Cow for Nintendo, and with Odyssey bringing the series back to artistic greatness and having few to no argued flaws, a vast majority of the Mario and Nintendo fandom holds the game in very high regard.
I didn't have a problem with the point's removal itself, given that it has indeed seen its share of criticism and debate regarding its quantity of content, but the edit summary was what stuck out to me: "Game is very frequently bashed and seems to be seen as one of the weakest 3D Mario games nowadays."
When I asked about it on ATT, given that the game still seemed pretty well-regarded from my observations, I was pointed to an earlier query
by TheLivingDrawing where everyone else was in agreement that the game is indeed still highly thought of and that the majority of its criticism came from a Vocal Minority, with the vast majority of folks in that thread opposing the point's removal. Should the point be reinstated, given that, or is the existing critique enough to keep it off (in which case its axing would be simply Right for the Wrong Reasons)?
Edited by bowserbros on Mar 25th 2022 at 6:34:04 AM
Be kind.
This was recently added to Mandela Effect.
This sounds less like a false memory and more like people just couldn't tell he was a god.