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rjd1922 Ultimate Adora-bot from Illinois Relationship Status: Love is for the living, Sal
Ultimate Adora-bot
May 9th 2019 at 2:19:07 PM

Selling the Show lists aversions; wouldn't they go under Creator Backlash or Old Shame? I suppose it could be a notable aversion if the creator bashed a work they were involved in while it was still in production and/or they got legal or other repercussions for it. I think this Doctor Who example would fit more under Creator Backlash, though:

  • There are numerous examples of actors, writers, directors, etc. acknowledging flaws in the stories, and saying other negative things about the process of making them on the documentaries and commentary tracks for the Classic series DVDs. Of course, it helps that the releases were all released anywhere from one to five decades after the story they're talking about was made. Their honesty, if anything, improves the quality of the DVDs.

Edited by rjd1922 on May 9th 2019 at 4:19:25 AM

Believe in Keebs.
Brainulator9 Regular garden-variety troper. from The country of What Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
Regular garden-variety troper.
May 9th 2019 at 5:44:47 PM

With respect to that, is the Fix Fic example on YMMV.The Lorax misuse or not? It says that the 2012 film could be seen as one to the book/1971 film.

Under the wise words of Fighteer, "Innuendo is not Radar."
May 9th 2019 at 5:54:01 PM

[up]It should be removed since its not ymmv.

Gacha Is A Lie.
May 9th 2019 at 6:30:35 PM

Audience-Alienating Premise, but doing well, so it doesn't count?

  • The Mexican animated film Un Gallo Con Muchos Huevos (A Rooster With Many Eggs) seems at first glance to be just an average film that'd be reasonably respectable in its home country. Its wide US release, however, is mind-boggling. Here we have a CGI film starring talking animals that resembles a kid pic but got a PG-13 rating for its US release, likely due to cultural differences in that Mexican humor is a bit more relaxed with standards than US humor. On top of that, the film is not being dubbed for its American release, it will be Spanish with English subtitles. How likely is it anyone will want to see a kiddie-looking PG-13 animated flick in Spanish? (and yet it cracked the weekend top 10, playing in less than 400 theaters...)

Help with possible disambig and redirect issues!
May 9th 2019 at 6:38:26 PM

[up] That just sounds like Sleeper Hit instead. I don't see it as an Audience-Alienating Premise for sure.

Edited by Darkaros on May 9th 2019 at 8:40:09 AM

razorrozar7 I'll be pretty one day. from Oregon Relationship Status: Hooked on a feeling
I'll be pretty one day.
May 9th 2019 at 6:39:15 PM

[up][up] ew. quite aside from whether it qualifies or not, it's crufty and nattery as all get out. in addition, the Audience-Alienating Premise page states that the premise has to turn enough people off so that the work fails, so you're right, it doesn't apply. axe with prejudice.

e: [nja]

Edited by razorrozar7 on May 9th 2019 at 6:41:34 AM

I'm Chloe. I fix things. Only you can prevent ZCEs.
May 9th 2019 at 7:05:45 PM

So, given the above, this wouldn't count since it doesn't say if the book failed or not. And it must fail, to count, too?

Tag as Zero-Context Example, or cut?

YMMV.Fourteen:

Edited by Malady on May 9th 2019 at 7:06:02 AM

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May 9th 2019 at 7:10:40 PM

[up]I say cut. It doesn't explain why it is that.

And since we are talking about Audience-Alienating Premise...

YMMV.WATATE Nan Angel Flew Downto Me, Audience-Alienating Premise is being misused as this premise is uncomfortable and not this premise did not garnered any audience. The example:

  • The main premise involves a college student having a crush on an elementary school-aged girl. Needless to say, this premise doesn't sit well with a lot of people. This is especially true in the U.S., where pedophilia is an extremely sensitive topic, leading the anime to become highly controversial almost instantaneously.

I deleted this twice from two different tropers, but i don't want to delete it a third time for fear of a edit war. So i wanted to make sure im ok in deleting it.

Gacha Is A Lie.
Crossover-Enthusiast Vibrating "Nyas" from somewhere doing something Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Vibrating "Nyas"
May 9th 2019 at 7:27:14 PM

[up] Well considering you've been ignored thus far in your attempts to get opinions on this example, I'd say just bring it to Ask The Tropers and let them chime in.

But yeah, I'd say it's using the wrong trope.

A short Pokébreak for some Peridot.
May 9th 2019 at 7:39:31 PM

[up]I did bring it in Ask the Troper first, but i wanted to make sure here.

Gacha Is A Lie.
rjd1922 Ultimate Adora-bot from Illinois Relationship Status: Love is for the living, Sal
Ultimate Adora-bot
May 9th 2019 at 11:21:32 PM

These examples on Bizarro Episode violate Examples Are Not General and sound rather complainy. I think the episode of Goku and Piccolo could be kept, though.

  • Dragon Ball Z:
    • Many filler episodes are radically different in tone from the rest of the series, with continuity errors that make you wonder if the writer had even seen the show before.
      • You could practically base a Drinking Game off of the filler episodes where one of the characters forgets that he can fly. There's also the episode of DBZ in which Goku and Piccolo learn how to drive, in particular.

Believe in Keebs.
razorrozar7 I'll be pretty one day. from Oregon Relationship Status: Hooked on a feeling
I'll be pretty one day.
May 9th 2019 at 11:30:46 PM

[up] agreed on complainy. if that example is to be kept, it needs to be cleaned; it's nattery as-is, and a ZCE to boot.

Edited by razorrozar7 on May 9th 2019 at 11:32:01 AM

I'm Chloe. I fix things. Only you can prevent ZCEs.
May 10th 2019 at 1:28:25 AM

Avengers: Endgame spoilers below

The film's trope page contains:

  • The '40s: The final shot of the film is of Steve returning to his decade and finally having his dance (in the tune of "It's Been a long, long time") with Peggy.
  • The New '10s: Most of the Time Travel takes place in the Marvel Cinematic Universe's recent past, between the 2012 invasion of New York, hours before Asgard was attacked in 2013, and the many events taking place in the Andromeda Galaxy in 2014.
  • Big Applesauce: While discussing the targets for the time heist, Black Widow is astonished to realize that three Infinity Stones were all in New York at the same time at one specific moment. This leads to travelling back in time to Battle of New York in 2012.

The decade tropes are under Hollywood History, and the city trope is under Hollywood Geography. I have argued (by commenting them out) that they are not examples since they do not have any markers that demonstrate "this took place here/when", making their setting incidental, or as they're currently written, they do not explain those markers.

Fighteer Geronimo! from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Geronimo!
May 10th 2019 at 3:47:55 AM

Correct. Those are incidental uses of the settings, not "the work is set in this decade/location".

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May 10th 2019 at 5:11:46 AM

Should we just cut all Zero Context YMMV, and Zero Context Tag, all such Main, because it's a lot easier to find context for tropes, than YMMV?

Help with possible disambig and redirect issues!
May 10th 2019 at 7:59:22 AM

From YMMV.Lyrical Nanoha.

Audience-Alienating Premise: It's a Magical Girl series aimed at young adult men. Moe is de rigeur for most anime, but the cutesy imagery can be a turnoff for American (and some other Western) audiences that don't look beneath the surface to the action series within.

While series didn't get over in the west, it became a big success in its home country. Delete?

Gacha Is A Lie.
Crossover-Enthusiast Vibrating "Nyas" from somewhere doing something Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Vibrating "Nyas"
May 10th 2019 at 8:55:55 AM

Hmm, yeah, that probably fits better under Americans Hate Tingle.

A short Pokébreak for some Peridot.
pikachu17 He-Who-Must-Be-Named from Somewhere Over the Rainbow Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
He-Who-Must-Be-Named
May 10th 2019 at 10:29:37 AM

I don't know anything about these Audience Alienating Premises, but remember that it's initial audience reaction, and that it can still be a Sleeper Hit, while remaining a Audience-Alienating Premise, while you are cleaning the examples.

17 pikachus all in a row.
May 10th 2019 at 10:49:02 AM

[up]It can't cant be both. Audience-Alienating Premise is when it fails regardless of its quality. Saying its a Sleeper Hit means it did succeed.

Gacha Is A Lie.
razorrozar7 I'll be pretty one day. from Oregon Relationship Status: Hooked on a feeling
I'll be pretty one day.
May 10th 2019 at 10:54:57 AM

[up][up]the page for Audience-Alienating Premise specifically states the work must fail for the trope to apply. if it's a Sleeper Hit, the work didn't fail, and thus AAP is out.

e: that said, if you think that part of the trope should be changed, that's a discussion for TRS. i feel like a case could be made for it.

Edited by razorrozar7 on May 10th 2019 at 10:56:25 AM

I'm Chloe. I fix things. Only you can prevent ZCEs.
May 10th 2019 at 1:43:28 PM

What type of Dub Name Change, is the Characters.Harvest Moon Mineral Town examples?


Also, would it be a Strong Family Resemblance inversion, if someone who wasn't someone's family member, is Related in the Adaptation, but their appearance doesn't change?

Like brown haired Ellie being said as the sister of the black-haired Stu?

Edited by Malady on May 10th 2019 at 1:47:49 AM

Help with possible disambig and redirect issues!
gjjones Musician/Composer from South Wales, New York
Musician/Composer
May 10th 2019 at 2:15:42 PM

For a potential entry on YMMV.Sakura Wars:

  • Harsher in Hindsight: The whole scene where Douglas Stewart, owned by Brent Furlong, deploys the Blanches to threaten the Paris Combat Revue (which includes Ci Caprice) in École de Paris is this if you consider that Brent's voice actor (Kōichi Yamadera) was once the real-life husband of Ci's one (Mika Kanai).

Is this a true example or a misuse?

Edited by gjjones on May 10th 2019 at 8:10:40 AM

No matter who you are, always be yourself.
razorrozar7 I'll be pretty one day. from Oregon Relationship Status: Hooked on a feeling
I'll be pretty one day.
May 10th 2019 at 2:16:07 PM

[up][up]regarding your second point: that's not an inversion, it's just not an example. listing family members that don't look like each other is very much People Sit on Chairs.

Edited by razorrozar7 on May 10th 2019 at 2:16:40 AM

I'm Chloe. I fix things. Only you can prevent ZCEs.
May 10th 2019 at 3:21:28 PM

The Wii U was one of Nintendo's biggest failures outside of the Virtual Boy, not helped by little marketing, a poorly thought out name that made it look like it was only a peripheral, and constant jokes about it not having any games (not helped by that massive drought for a year). That said, when it picked up hype, it picked up a lot of hype. When it got its first party offerings, several people saw the system as a great companion or secondary console (heck, quite a few PC gamers consider it their favorite of its gen because it had the most value in exclusives) that a lot of old school gamers respected for being one of the last bastions of 60 FPS gameplay outside PC. To make a long story short, many consider it the modern day Dreamcast in the best way possible (although the Wii U lasted longer than the Dreamcast).

Um, is this a valid example of Vindicated by History? I haven't seen many people defending the Wii U in .... any way.

razorrozar7 I'll be pretty one day. from Oregon Relationship Status: Hooked on a feeling
I'll be pretty one day.
May 10th 2019 at 4:09:57 PM

[up]i have. Vinesauce Vinny for one; my girlfriend for another. im not sure it's a widespread opinion, but i dont think it has to be to qualify, right? that's why it's a ymmv trope.

I'm Chloe. I fix things. Only you can prevent ZCEs.

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