Fixing Creator/ pages to remove personal tropes.

Well, I guess if it's rephrased right, it would make sense?

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Can Creators have Funny or Quotes?

Cate Blanchett

Edited by Malady on Jun 8th 2023 at 3:52:35 AM

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It's an aside, not a trope in its own right, but Mark Millar has just had this added by fanman:

• Cluster F-Bomb: A lot of his edgier works like Wanted and The Unfunnies has characters swear like sailors. Ironically, Millar never curses himself in real life, being a Catholic.

The last sentence is mirroring an (uncited) claim on the Wikipedia page.

Millar is infamous in some circles for describing his comic Nemesis as "What if Batman was a total c**t?" (as cited here).

That may be work-related swearing, not "personal life" real life, but am I ok to cut?

Sounds fine to cut

Macron's notes

Looking at the musician page for Christine and the Queens -

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• Hotter and Sexier: Deliberately invoked with Chris, which borrows its sound from 80s R&B and dance music and more erotic subject matter (the video for "5 dollars" features him as an S&M gigolo). His look also changed, becoming more muscular after years of touring and dancing, with his stage outfits featuring loose clothing and bare chests inspired by Leonardo DiCaprio in Romeo + Juliet.
• Important Haircut: He cut his hair short for a more androgynous style starting from the Chris era.
• Tomboyish Name: His alternate stage name Chris is a deliberate example.

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Chris has publicly identified as genderqueer for a few years and, more recently, came out as transmasc (2021) and started exclusively using he/him pronouns. For me, some of these examples sit a little uncomfortably in that context. With that in mind:

• Hotter and Sexier feels as if we can cut the "becoming more muscular" clause but keep the stage costume final sentence?
• I'm tempted to cut both Important Haircut and Tomboyish Name as they seem to be wrapped up in Chris's gender identity (at least in hindsight) rather than just the stage show.

Thoughts?

Would like a second opinion if the majority of Jenna Coleman isn't about works.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup

Yeah, that could use a clean.

• Gossip Evolution seems to be troping the creator as a person
• If Ms. Fanservice is "generally averted", why is it there? And it's NRLEP anyway, so should be applied to a specific character not the creator - but doesn't read that way, as it's looking at her career as a whole. Cut.
• Precision F-Strike: Cut everything that's ooc
• Statuesque Stunner is NRLEP, even if inverted. Victoria and Doctor Who have their own pages, so it can be listed there if anywhere.
• Two First Names looks like misuse, unless Coleman is a common first name I'm not aware of?
• What Beautiful Eyes! is NRLEP and, again, Doctor Who has its own page.

(Am I being overcritical on this?)

Is there any reason not to nuke this from Christopher Marlowe?

• Yaoi Fanboy: He shipped Jesus and John. Someone quoted, or paraphrased, him as saying that "John the baptist was bedfellow to Christ, and leaned alwaies in his bosom, and used him as the sinners of Sodoma." He is also supposed to have said that "Christ was a bastard and his mother dishonest [unchaste]" and that "the Angel Gabriel was bawd [pimp] to the Holy Ghost". Due to this he was accused of atheism (though it meant something more like "heresy" in those days) and blasphemy-serious charges-but died only days before his case was scheduled to be heard before the Privy Council, which some see as linking his murder with it.

Looks like an Always Female trope with a potholed trope name, for a start.

Edited by Mrph1 on Aug 15th 2023 at 11:25:02 AM

I'd cut it. I don't think it's the type of thing the trope is going for anyways.

Macron's notes

Aleister Crowley trope list doesn't sound like it's about his works.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup

Yeah, most of not all of tropes on the list appear to be troping him as a person.

Macron's notes

Not necessarily a Creator page, but I came across the Taiji Sawada page and it goes into a very uncomfortable level of detail troping about the man's real life controversies and turbulent life, culminating in his death in 2011. Most of the tropes are editorializing about his personal turmoil (The Alcoholic and Gratuitous Rape included) he has a Trivia page where the sole entry is a misused Creator Breakdown just saying how much his life sucked, and the Awesome page is listed of more just meta moments, nothing to do with his actual music (aside from just saying "his career"). In lieu of anyone having actual proper content about him, should those pages just be totally scrubbed out?

Edited by number9robotic on Aug 27th 2023 at 2:08:14 AM

Thanks for playing King's Quest V!

The Gratuitous Rape entry is talking about one of his songs (and while the entry is verbose and bashy, it doesn't seem to refer to his personal life). Other than that, I agree with you.

It does not matter who I am. What matters is, who will you become? - motto of Omsk Bird

the Phil Spector page lists lots of tropes about him and infamous things he did like a murder he committed.

Edited by namsan on Nov 14th 2023 at 12:39:45 PM

That one was an absolute disaster. I cleaned up the trope list a bit.

Bigotry will NEVER be welcome on TV Tropes.

Stephen Hawking's tropelist feels focusing too much on his biography.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup

Cicero has a sizeable list of tropes that describe him as if he was a fictional character, including some NRLEP ones like Category Traitor and Charm Person. A handful of them focus on his speeches, at least.

Crossposting this one from the NRLEP thread —

In 2022, there was a Crowner decision to keep RL examples for Former Child Star - or, at least, it didn't quite reach the 2:1 ratio needed to declare it No Real Life Examples, Please!.

However, FormerChildStar.Real Life has a lot of problematic examples.

As summarised on the PlayingWith page, the trope isn't just "was a child star, then grew up", it's "a child actor has a troubled adulthood".

That makes it very hard to trope the person without drifting into Real Life Troping - we're discussing the creator's life, drug problems, criminal record etc., not their work as a musician or actor.

The NRLEP guidance is that we don't revisit decisions unless there's a good reason to. What would be sufficient justification for this one? If it directly clashes with RealLifeTroping, does that give us a reason?

Or do we just take it to the Real Person Troping thread or a similar cleanup to cut most of this away?

Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 30th 2024 at 12:01:36 PM

The fact that the Real Life section is big enough to require being made a subpage isn't reason enough? The only subpage at that? I'd argue that's a bad look for a site that's supposed to be dedicated to troping fiction.

(Annoyed grunt)

I'm still trying to work out what a "good" RL example would look like. Which suggests it may be hard to write one.

Thing is, a lot of Former Child Star examples are directly based off real child stars, which fits my personal justification of RL examples (that they can provide historical context for fictional examples). Additionally, this is a trope that is inherently tied to fiction even when discussing real life, so the Real Life page being so big doesn't faze me — these are people that are frequently discussed because they're also prominent in other things we trope on the site.

I get the argument for cutting it but as long as it's only describing objective facts or their own anecdotes about these people's lives and not just regurgitating gossip rag drama, I think it's okay.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

It does run into the sort of real life troping we actively purge from Creator pages, though.

I get the point about it providing historical reference for the inspiration, but I'm not sure how much that counterbalances the other considerations - e.g. that was also true of Badass Israeli, which has now gone NRLEP.

Badass Israeli seems to be easier to boil down to national stereotypes whereas Former Child Star often relies on some level of No Celebrities Were Harmed based on then-contemporary child/teen stars. If nothing else, some specific examples could be referenced in the description.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

Trivia.Seraph: It's a pile of troping people?

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Yes and has a lot of tropes at wrong place, but see if there's something that can stay at Music/ page.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup