Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Going off of what rexpensive has just said, I will reconfirm my "no" vote.

I'm gonna go with no on the Dark Princess too. She sounds more greedy and stupid than pure evil.

Quick question, exactly how "heinous" does a crime have to be to qualify someone for Complete Monster? Would murdering someone who trusts you qualify? Or does it need to be AT LEAST mass or repetetive on-screen murder to count?

edited 1st Oct '14 5:53:21 PM by Lunacorva

Generally one murder doesn't cut it. It depends what else they do.

Murder, rape, torture — acts like that are required to meet the minimum bar for heinousness. What additional degree of heinousness is required depends on the work. If murder is commonplace in the story, then that alone is insufficient.

Motivation too. If that character has a motivation that justifies what they do, than they are not a Complete Monster. If a Complete Monster does have motivation, it's got to be unjustifiable.

Well... In this case, that's a tricky one. While other character in the series HAVE had higher body counts, these kills were either played for laughs or in self-defense. This was the first onscreen case of selfish, pre-meditated, cold blooded murder.

That is not enough by itself.

So what WOULD be enough to qualify? What is the minimum bar?

That is as dependent on the series in question as it is on anything else. We need a string of appropriate crimes—murder, rape, torture, especially brutal cases of assault—but said crimes also have to take into account the nature of the setting.

Hypothetical: If the average villain kills ten people, but doesn't enjoy it, and this guy kills five people, but enjoys it, then he doesn't meet the heinousness bar despite being morally irredeemable.

edited 1st Oct '14 7:15:25 PM by Fighteer

That could depend on a variety of factors. How do they stack up to any other villains in the story? How do they kill said people? Things like that.

Okay thanks.

And last question. If a villain commits an actual that is genuinely heinous (Ie bob gleefully burns down an orphanage, horrifying the cast who previously only had to deal with Poke the Poodle villains), but then another villain shows up in the sequal who is even worse (In The Legend of Tropania 2: Electric Trope-aloo, Emperor Evulz horrifies the cast by gleefully burning down fifty orphanages) would the first villain then be disqualified?

If the first villain is dealt with decisively, as with an Arc Villain, to be replaced by someone higher up in the Sorting Algorithm of Evil, then the first villain could count as a CM for that arc.

That's how Tao Pai Pai is on the Dragon Ball page.

Alright then. thank you for your time.

Also does the Emperor have far more resources then Bob? That is a factor we take into account, a villain with more resources can do more evil things, but a villain with lesser resources can still be as evil as they possibly can be. A Complete Monster cannot be overshadowed by another character, if the character is as evil as they could be with the level of resources they have, they can still count. A story can have both a genocidal dictator that commands armies and gruesome Serial Killer that mainly works alone and they both can be monsters.

edited 1st Oct '14 8:38:11 PM by TheOverlord

Edit: Sorry double post, I was having problems with my computer.

edited 1st Oct '14 8:37:21 PM by TheOverlord

I'd like to finalize Archibald Snatcher's decision so we can move on to other subjects without burying that one. Are there any more votes?

As promised. I'll submit these all sometime Saturday.

• AkameGaKill:
  • Syura, the twisted son of Prime Minister Honest, is driven by a desire to surpass his successful father, and puts together a group of vicious psychos known as The Wild Hunt in order to hunt down the Night Raid. Syura wastes no time terrorizing the populace in attacks where innocent people are butchered and men, women and children alike are raped by him and his squad. Syura himself treats his “playthings” horribly with a tendency to kill them, all the while daring someone to challenge him as he is the son of the Prime Minister and thus untouchable. When he actually captures a member of Night Raid, Syura subjects him to hideous torture, including crushing one of his testicles, to get him to speak. When he encounters the widow of a genuine Imperial war hero, Syura wastes no time raping and murdering her while one of his men has her young daughter right on top of the husband's grave. Spoiled, selfish, monstrous and consumed with nothing more than a need to satisfy his own desires and cruelty, Syura is the worst the dark world of Akame Ga Kill has to offer.
  • Champ, one of the Wild Hunt, is a Monster Clown who was imprisoned for being a pedophiliac serial rapist and serial killer. During an early raid of the Wild Hunt, Champ notices a little boy and kills a woman trying to stop him from raping him. Champ comments how he enjoys killing the children before they can become "filthy adults" and later rapes and murders the daughter of a dead imperial war hero right on top of her father's grave while Syura handles her mother. It is revealed that a member of another Imperial Squad, the Jaegers, named Run has joined simply to get revenge on Champ for slaughering his entire class from the days when he was a teacher. When confronted with this, Champ comments he's violated and killed so many kids he can't even remember the class until his memory is jogged. His only emotion is disapointment that them screaming for Run to save them ruined his fun.
• Sakura Gari: Dr. Tomohiko Katsuragi is the Saiki clan's doctor and one of Souma's lovers. He initially appears to be a polite, helpful doctor, but is soon revealed to be a disgusting pedophilic rapist and multiple murderer. When Souma informs him that his stepmother Sakurako was sexually abusing him, Katsuragi drugs Sakurako and forces the traumatized young Souma to slit her wrists and kill her, not to stop the boy's suffering but so he could have Souma for himself. He regularly rapes and tortures Souma for years, before doing the same to Masataka, Souma's lover, out of jealousy. He gives his wife Asayo the same treatment, turning her into a battered Broken Bird. He later tries to poison Souma's ill father Lord Saki as well, one of the few people still remaining to him. Out of the many horrible people in this story, he's definitely the worst.

• Spawn: The film incarnation of Clown/Violator is as monstrous as his comic counterpart. The chief lieutenant of the devil Malebolgia, who sent him to Earth to start Armageddon, he's a revolting demon who gets off on violence and depravity, even at the expense of his allies. He makes a deal with black ops security chief Jason Wynn by offering him dominion of the world in exchange for creating a bioweapon that would kill most of humanity, after first having it tested on thousands of people. Malebolgia can then use the souls of the dead as his army to invade and destroy Heaven. Clown initially orders the death of Al Simmons/Spawn at Wynn's hands, recruiting Simmons after his return to Earth to lead Hell's army. He convinces Wynn to attach the virus to his heartrate after letting Spawn kill Wynn's top assassin,, Jessica Priest, then manipulates Spawn into killing Wynn to release the virus. When this fails, the frustrated Clown tries to rape Spawn's ex-fiance Wanda in front of Spawn while forcing him to watch, and promises that he'll slaughter the rest of his family (including Spawn's 4-year old daughter Cyan) when he's done.

• The Barrow, by Mark Smylie: Seemingly Lovable Rogue Gilgwyr and Leigh are both members of The Nameless Cults that worship the dark Forbidden Gods. Manipulating the novel's main character Stjepan and their companions into locating the titular Barrow and entering it, Leigh and Gilgwyr proceed to kill almost everyone in the adventuring party while leaving the corpses for flesh eating Ghuls. Gilgwyr personally leaves two to be eaten alive. The motivation of the the two is to resurrect the monstrous, cannibalistic tyrant Azharad, buried deep in the barrow, so that he can proceed to raze the world. Leigh is driven by revenge against the mages who ejected him from their fellowship, as well as greed, while Gilgwyr is simply enjoying himself. The two also ritualistically torture and murder women, including the handmaiden of Azharad's chosen bride, before intending to offer Stjepan's flesh and soul for Azharad's appetites. Leigh tricks Gilgwyr and instead makes him Azharad's meal before going on with the ritual while ranting about the power he will obtain.

• The Riftwar Cycle: Murmandamus is the Big Bad of Silverthorn and A Darkness at Sethanon. A Pantathian serpent-priest who plans to bring the long-banished Valheru back into the world, Murmandamus disguises himself as the reincarnation of the moredhel's (dark elves) greatest leader, uniting the mountain, forest, and hill clans in a campaign of genocide against their human and eledhel enemies. He sends assassins after the Prince of Krondor, which gets numerous people caught in the crossfire. He steals the souls of his human servants in a ritual that involves sacrificing a nine-year-old girl. He creates the Black Slayers, soulless moredhel, bound in service to him forevermore. He murders a seer who gave him the information he wanted, and massacres hundreds of slaves when he realizes that his campaign isn't going to start when he wants it to. In A Darkness at Sethanon he destroys the cities of Armengar and Sethanon, lines his headquarters at Sar-Sargoth with a thousand human heads on pikes, kills hundreds of his own men in a fit of rage, tramples his right-hand serpent-priest, Cathos, to death, consumes the souls of all those who have died aiding him, and in the end, tries to activate the Lifestone, an Artifact of Doom that will slay all life on Midkemia from bacteria to humanity, in order to loose the Valheru. Believing that he will attain demigodhood when the Valheru return, Murmandamus dies laughing about how "I am a thing of death, Lord of the West. I am ever the servant of Darkness."
• River Of Stars, by Guy Gavriel Kay: Bai'ji is an Altai warlord, and third-in-command after his brother, Wan'yen, and kaghan Yan'po. Generally regarded as his brother's Evil Genius, Bai'ji helps Wan'yen betray and murder the Xiaolu Emperor and his First Minister, burying them both up to their necks and then having them eaten alive by ants; he keeps their skulls to drink wine from. Bai'ji then persuades Wan'yen and Yan'po to invade Kitai, to the south, destroying the Twelfth Dynasty, and reducing city after city to rubble. When Wan'yen sends him after escaping prisoners, Bai'ji objects, because he was getting ready to rape a number of Kitai women in front of their husbands. At the time of his death in the swamps of southern Kitai, Bai'ji was plotting to avenge this "insult" by murdering both Wan'yen and Yan'po. A sadist with imperial ambitions, Bai'ji left the world a better place by leaving it.

• The Closer:
  • Roger Stimple from season 3's "Ruby" is a child molesting landscaper who lures prepubescent black girls into his van to rape and kill, before burying them in the park he works at.
  • Judd Whaley from season 3's "The Round File" was a manager of the Summerview Senior Living Center. He had a Medicaid occupant die on him, and received a bonus for having a low occupancy rate as well as for having a paying resident replace him. Realizing the profit potential, Whaley would poison Medicaid Residents with no friends and visitors, and tries to frame a resident who gets suspicious. He expressed nothing but contempt for his victims with his "Who cares" speech, and even has the gall to try to bribe the police to drop the charges and let the witness investigating him stay at Summerview free of charge.
  • Phillip Stroh from Season 4's "Power of Attorney," as well as Season 7's "Hostile Witness" and "The Last Word'' is a truly Amoral Attorney who defends sex offenders, but who also happens to be a serial rapist. He has his client Chris Dunlap find him victims to rape, one of them fights back and is killed. When Dunlap is arrested he goes onto become even more brutal, strangling his victims with a chain, and trying to kill a man who witnessed the crimes. When arrested he offers his services to a fellow inmate in exchange for sendind letters, ordering several murders and threatening the witness.

• Dead Island: Charon, aka Kevin, is nothing but a heartless monster. An international hacker-for-hire, Charon is wanted for willingly working with every terrorist and criminal organization, from Al-Qaeda to the Yakuza. During the zombie outbreak on Banoi, Charon intends to take a sample of the zombie virus and get rich by selling it as a bio-weapon. He manipulates the immune protagonists against Colonel Ryder White, which gets White killed, and convinces them to obtain a bio-eningeered super-potent strain of the virus. As it turns out, Charon also manipulated Ryder into betraying his country, using his infected wife as leverage, and after betraying Ryder, states that he should have killed him when he had the chance. When Dr. West insists on creating a cure for the virus, Charon kills him. Driven by greed and his indifference to human life, Charon cares not for the millions he puts in danger in the pursuit of money.
• Max Payne 3: Victor Branco is an aspiring but corrupt politician of São Paulo, and a son of the wealthy Branco family. He is also the hidden leader of the UFE, a law enforcement group he uses for his own ends, and the Cracha Preto death squad and the mastermind behind the assassinations attempts on his brothers (one by burning alive, and the abduction of his sister-in-law. He is motivated by control of the family fortune and gaining sympathy for the election. Victor recruits Max as a bodyguard but really plans on making Max a fall guy for his criminal enterprises, which includes a secret ring where the poor of Brazil are kidnapped, held hostage and are harvested for their organs for the black market organ trade.

edited 15th Oct '14 11:54:11 PM by ACW

Rewrite of Felix's earlier draft. I took out some stuff to make it shorter and simpler, but left in the stuff that I feel really makes him a Complete Monster.

• While he initially presents himself as something of a good guy, Felix is a sociopathic Psycho for Hire that shows no hesitation in twisting the knife just to cause as much emotional pain as he can to his victims. Manipulating the New Republic and its leader, Felix outright takes pleasure in watching both sides of the war kill each other, remorselessly sacrificing those under his command to complete the mission at hand. When going through his Motive Rant, after Locus and his men brutally murder several Federation soldiers and non-combatants, he laughs in the face of the Blood Gulch crew, casually mentioning that he would rather complete his assignment by nuking the planet from orbit and letting the survivors die from radiation poisoning. In contrast to Consummate Professional Locus, who doesn't Kick the Dog when he doesn't need to and is implied to have a tragic past, Felix has no redeeming or amusing qualities whatsoever, a first for anyone in the series.

edited 2nd Oct '14 3:45:58 AM by SatoshiBakura

Well, so far the dark princess has 5 yes votes (Austin, Scraggle, Anewman, Irene, and very melon) and three no votes (Ambar, rexpensive, and occasional exister).

Anyone else want to vote? I will wait till seven pm tonight to give you all a good amount of time. If the yes votes continue to outweigh the no votes, I will propose a write up.

I'm just wondering if anyone else saw that movie. Also, bobg, are you absolutely sure that the Dark Princess knew that removing the gem planet would result in the death of everything in existence?

@Scraggle: I also made a tally of how many votes Snatcher got. It was a few pages back.

edited 2nd Oct '14 5:15:00 AM by AustinDR

I'll also request the DND Monsters swapping Monday morning?

If it's ready, just post it