Misused: Ms Fanservice

I honestly prefer the guidelines as they are now in Ms. Fanservice and Mr. Fanservice

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.

-School PC-

And personally speaking, I would help in a cleanup thread.

Don't expect me to appear much though, because I can only use the computer on weekends.

edited 21st Feb '14 5:55:17 AM by SaintDeltora

"Please crush me with your heels Esdeath-sama!

Clock is set.

So, the last thing we more or less universally agreed upon as the first step to do is to remove zero-context examples on the article's own list, since that's by far the comparatively easiest thing to do. My personal addendum is suggesting that we also cross-check with any wicks that pertain to the work that the ZCE is about and remove said wicks if they are ZCEs themselves, to hit two birds with one stone.

edited 21st Mar '14 8:57:16 AM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

Agreed. Remove the ZCEs first.

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.

I'm looking at the edit history for this trope and on Nov 4th the first line was change from

A female character who provides a significant amount of Fanservice (generally for males), ranging from simple revealing of cleavage, midriff, shoulders or legs, to shots of her curves, hips or derriere (even when covered).

to

A female character who provides Fanservice (generally for males), ranging from simple revealing of cleavage, midriff, shoulders or legs, to shots of her curves, hips or derriere (even when covered).

It's small but significant change because it's broadens the definition by a lot. I'm not finding any discussion that allowed for such a change.

That makes it way too broad.

That would make it effectively a duplicate of Fanservice. Revert that.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Question: How is "Fanservice" defined in Ms. Fanservice? because reading the description now, It reads to me like "This character loves wearing skimpy clothing". And I'm pretty sure that doesn't make a character Ms. Fanservice. So if the camera doesn't give a damn about her or treat her as if she's wearing a nun's clothes even if she's a hot babe wearing a microbikini, then that pretty much disqualifies her for fanservice.

by the way, i found this one. eHow gets the weirdest articles... Might help though.

Here's my thoughts on the description.

Narrow it down. We don't need a list of what a Ms. Fanservice would wear. In fact, I'm thinking this is exactly the reason for misuse. That:

• Ms. Fanservice: Yang, And HOW!

"It would help in cases like Highschool of the Dead, where Ms. Fanservice keeps getting applied to practically every female character that isn't a prepubescent."

Got me. though in HOTD's case it really feels like World Of Fanservice, since every girl indeed gets their share of Fanservice (as defined here). Yang of RWBY feels more like The Tease to me. But yes, she indeed has some hefty cleavage and Dangerousl Short Skirt but it's not focused a lot in the show.

Back on the case, I think instead of saying what she wears, we must describe what makes one a Ms. Fanservice, like so:

---

Ms. Fanservice is a character who is often subject to Fanservice situations. The camera loves her, giving her plenty of Male Gaze; Her movements get the Gaussian Girl treatment and zoomed into; Time seems to slow so the audience can see her graceful movements; She often gets Bathing Beauty scenes; even her Sexy Walk gets her a Panty Shot.

In other words, her assets are often the Spotlight-Stealing Squad.

edited 30th Apr '14 6:44:19 AM by ShanghaiSlave

Is dast der Zerstorer? Odar die Schopfer?

Well now. I'm not sure there is a problem to be fixed, but there again I'm not sure I'm not a prime offender in the eyes of those who think that there is a problem.

I think the current definition is just fine, and if there is an issue it is with overuse rather than misuse- admittedly a very fine line.

I agree completely with those who said above that it's not just clothes that make the Fanservice, but also the attitude displayed (if I may paraphrase).

I think we can all agree on some general principles and rules by example- for instance, that Catwoman is quite definitely a Ms. Fanservice, but that Wonder Woman, for all the skin she shows, definitely is not, being a noble and heroic Amazonian Beauty who is above that sort of thing.

Can we also agree that in a particular work (I'm thinking of a series page here), there can be more than one Ms. Fanservice, just because there are so many episodes (hopefully) of a series that all the characters get to do more than one thing from time to time, and on a special occasion even the wallflower may become Ms. Fanservice for an episode (for whatever reason)- and that instance is worth citing on a trope page? And that there can, as multiple tropers above stated, be more than one Ms. Fanservice per work?

Last, I really disagree with the idea that we need a group discussion on the lines of the Complete Monster trope to decide who is or is not a Ms. Fanservice. These things are subjective, but not that subjective; nor are they that earth-shaking. A caveat on the main page to the effect that "Not every female character who wears a slit skirt or has Absolute Cleavage is also going to qualify as Ms. Fanservice, so please use restraint when assigning characters to this trope" should really be sufficient, to my way of thinking. I agree that care should be taken, otherwise a series like "Two and 1/2 Men" could have 5 Ms Fanservices per episode- but a complete teardown of the trope is not needed.

Given i use a different interpretation of Ms. Fanservice, I disagree with everything you said.

I support World Of Fanservice for works with "multiple fanservice girls".

Lastly, no, Ms. Fanservice can be objective depending on which definition we use.

"Character gets a lot of fanservice moments" cannot be subjective, because we see it happening.

"character has lots of Fanservice Tropes on her" cannot be objective, since the majority of those tropes are clothes, and not all instances of skimpy clothing are meant for titillation as you yourself have demonstrated.

Just like how the clothing called Bikini is Not A Trope, but the various kinds of bikini under Swimsuit Index are, because they say something about the character, or enhances their appeal.

EDIT: forgot an itty bitty detail.

edited 11th May '14 8:25:07 AM by ShanghaiSlave

Is dast der Zerstorer? Odar die Schopfer?

Personally, I suggest removing Ms. Fanservice and Mr. Fanservice, period.

Yeah, it's annoying, but if there is no consensus on what we should do, then there's no point in continuing, and we would be best served either purging both tropes or leaving it as is.

edited 11th May '14 9:19:26 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.

You suggesting we remove any tropes we cannot fix because we have no consensus?

Is dast der Zerstorer? Odar die Schopfer?

If we can't reach a consensus, then it's best to purge the tropes, yes.

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.

Unless this is not a trope removing it completely seems out of the question. We could always rework it into a list of character types.

I wanna keep Ms. Fanservice and Mr. Fanservice, but how can we get any progress when we all have different interpretations of its definition?

edited 13th May '14 12:33:55 AM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.

Double post.

edited 12th May '14 9:39:56 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.

the reason we have different interpretations is because we're not using the word Fanservice in Ms. Fanservice properly.

Is dast der Zerstorer? Odar die Schopfer?

And what's supposed to be its proper usage?

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.

look at post 134. I'd rather not repeat myself.

Is dast der Zerstorer? Odar die Schopfer?

May I be so bold as to suggest a simpler description which we can build upon for this trope? My God, it took forever to do this. And I'm not totally done. But it's a start or something.

---

A female character who provides a significant amount of Fanservice, generally for males. Such a character will be provocatively dressed, or clothed in a fashion that accentuates her female anatomy in a pointedly sexual way. Creators achieve this through the revealing of cleavage, midriff, shoulders or legs, to shots of her curves, hips or derriere.

Dressing sexily is not all there is to it, however. The clothing will typically fulfill the Theiss Titillation Theory, namely that there is an anticipation for the clothing to slip in all the convenient places. Underboobs, Sideboob, Vapor Ware, etc. are used in this way.

In addition, this character may be in certain poses that accentuate their lady bits and femininity, such as the Boobs-and-Butt Pose and Leg Cling. They will also be subjected to a Panty Shot or similar camerawork.

There are several ways that Ms. Fanservice is depicted in media, though by no means is this list an exhaustive one:

• A Fanservice Extra provides eye candy, but never appeared before the moment of such eye candy and never appears again. Compare Best Known for the Fanservice.
• An Innocent Fanservice Girl has no qualms about strutting her stuff in front of others; she doesn't see a problem in it. This can range from flat-out nudity to posing in skimpy outfits when asked.
• A Reluctant Fanservice Girl prefers to dress modestly, but the universe conspires to subject her into providing fanservice anyway, which she takes issue with.
• A Shameless Fanservice Girl doesn't care if you're uncomfortable with her lack of clothes or penchant for skimpy outfits. She'll bare her figure anyway.

Either way, the camera seems to have the hots for her, and the viewing audience is expected to feel the same way.

(I feel this portion is not necessary: The real trick is to make it so that being eye candy doesn't make her a Flat Character. Besides, being "flat" usually doesn't fit this type of character.

For the Spear Counterpart, see Mr. Fanservice. If she also sleeps with many other characters, she Really Gets Around. Subjected to multiple Double Standard tropes, especially if she actually gets a nice dose of Character Development or is shown to have Hidden Depths aside from her hot looks; unfortunately, the fandom may refuse to see them.

Compare Hello Nurse, and contrast the Token Wholesome. See also Memetic Sex God.

edited 14th May '14 5:45:31 PM by Lakija

It is what it is.

Hmmm... that's a good one. I say yes to the new description. We can argue over who counts later.

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.

For the record, the types list is missing one for characters who are technically modest, but also suffer from some kind of obliviousness or lack of concentration, whether a temporary bout or some constant part of their personality, that leads them to unwittingly provide copious fanservice, with her being completely unaware that she's doing something inappropiate or tantalizing — not because she doesn't understand the problem, but because she's genuinely not aware of what she's doing.^Example Bob trips over something on the beach and falls over. Alice, who has a nice figure and is wearing a bikini, runs to him and bends over in concern for his well-being, while being blissfully oblivious to the fact that she's giving him a close-up view of her generous cleavage in the process. Also, she probably isn't even aware that merely wearing a bikini is fanservice, nor is she aware of the guys who stared at her bouncing chest while she was running to her friend's aid. Typically, once such a character becomes aware of what she's doing, she goes into full embarrassment mode. (Incidentally, this used to be one common misuse of Innocent Fanservice Girl before TRS fixed that problem (though apparently someone forgot to take the trope concept to YKTTW, or something)

Also, I'd suggest changing "There are several types of Ms. Fanservice" to "There are several ways of depicting a Ms. Fanservice, though by no means is this list an exhaustive one". "Types" implies that Innocent Fanservice Girl and the others are subtropes of Ms. Fanservice.

edited 14th May '14 11:59:47 AM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

I agree with that second point.

I agree with Marq's second point, too.

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.