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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

11111001011 Since: Dec, 2018
#143676: Jan 11th 2019 at 9:55:42 PM

Here are some less-than-impressive entries I found

Mon Colle Knights:

Could use a rewrite.

Space Vulture:

Zero-Context Example.

Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#143677: Jan 11th 2019 at 10:02:18 PM

Yes to the candidates I missed, except for Gonzo, who gets a no.

Anyway, I think I finally found a Star Trek Voyager villain who may count, but he is far from the typical Star Trek villain, he comes from Silicon Valley rather than another solar system, appearing in the 3rd season two-parter, Future's End:

Who is Henry Starling? What has he done?

A little background on Voyager before we continue, its a Star Trek show where a Federation ship, the USS Voyager was transported from the Alpha Quadrant where most Star Trek shows take place to the Delta Quadrant on the other side of the galaxy and they spend the rest of the show trying to get home.

Anyway, Henry Starling was a hippie camping out in the mountains in California in 1967, when he finds a ship from the 29th century has crashed near his campsite.

Back in the 24th century, Voyager is attacked by a ship from the 29th century, piloted by future Federation captain Braxton, who blames Voyager for an explosion that destroys Earth's solar system in the 29th century. Voyager manages to defeat Braxton's ship, which creates a wormhole that teleports Voyager back to Earth in 1996. Braxton's ship was teleported back to 1967, which is where Starling found it.

Starling has taken this tech from the time ship to create the computer revolution from the 1990s (introducing cell phones, laptops, the internet, etc) and created a giant tech company called Chronowrex. Starling plans to use the time ship to go to the 29th century and steal more technology to create more products to sell, Starling's trip to the future is the event that will destroy Earth's solar system in the 29th century.

Anyway one of Starling's employees, Rain Robinson (played a young Sarah Silverman) is able to use future tech to find Voyager in orbit. Starling is mad that Rain e-mailed a colleague about finding a ship in orbit and orders his main henchman Dunbar to kill him. The Voyager crew foil Dunbar and save Rain. Captain Janeway breaks into Chronowrex to find the time ship, but Starling and Dunbar get the drop on her. Voyager beams her away and tries to beam the time ship away, but Starling uses 29th-century tech to foil Voyager, stealing part of their computer database, including the ships' medical doctor, a self-aware hologram.

Starling tries to force the Doctor to help him, able to change his program to make him feel pain and begins to torture him, making feel like he is on fire. Anyway later, the Voyager crew attempts to beam away Starling from his car, Starling tries to use him some of his tech to save himself but fails and he is captured is being held on Voyager. Janeway tells him that will destroy the future if he uses the time ship, Starling says he will take that risk, saying he does not care about people from 900 years in the future. Also, Starling has rigged the time ship with a bomb, if Voyager tries to beam it away, it will blow up and take out Los Angeles.

Anyway, Dunbar uses future tech to beam Starling off Voyager. Starling uses Dunbar as a decoy, with him driving a truck that tricks the Voyager crew with false readings about the time ship, with voyager blowing up the truck, killing Dunbar, meaning Starling sacrifice him. Starling launches the real-time ship and prepares to travel to the future, but Voyager destroys the ship, killing Starling. The paradox is solved, Captain Braxton comes to Earth and transports Voyager back to the Delta Quadrant, not wanting to change the past by putting Voyager in the Alpha Quadrant.

Is he heinous by the standards of the work?

I think so, at first Starling seems like he does not believe Janeway that his actions will destroy the future, but later he decides it doesn't matter, that he will risk destroying the future, just to help his bottom line, so his attempted body count would be several billion people. That and torturing the Doctor and be willing to rig that ship to blow up LA, shows a pattern of cruel behavior, that you cannot blame on ignorance.

Most Voyager villains are too bland to count, the Borg Queen is her usual self, attempting to assimilate entire worlds and there was an alien named Annorax who used technology to wipe civilizations from the time stream, but he was doing that to change the past so his family would be alive again. I think given Starling's resource combo a 20th-century corporation and 29th-century tech, he does stand out.

Any Freudian Excuse or other redeeming qualities?

Nah, by the time he says destroying the future is worth the risk to help his bottom line, you cannot blame ignorance for his actions, his actions are willful and malicious.

He claims he is making mankind better, saying he introduced the computer revolution, however, I do not think anyone would say its okay for Starling to destroy a solar system and kill billions of people, so he can introduce the iPhone in 1998 or something. That and his torture and willingness to blow up LA shows he is cruel and driven by greed, not a desire to help others.

Final Verdict?

I think he counts.

Edited by Overlord on Jan 12th 2019 at 8:23:03 AM

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#143678: Jan 11th 2019 at 10:16:05 PM

[tup] to Starling.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#143679: Jan 11th 2019 at 10:17:17 PM

Sure there

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Bullman "Cool. Coolcoolcool." Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#143682: Jan 11th 2019 at 11:20:42 PM

[tup]Remor, Jones, Jill, Starling

HBD Jackie[awesome]

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
G-Editor Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#143684: Jan 12th 2019 at 1:58:03 AM

[tup] Jill and Starling.

EDIT: Am I missing anything?


  • The Magnificent Seven (1998):
    • Colonel Emmett Anderson, from the premiere "Ghosts of the Confederacy'' (Lighty)
    • Wickes, from season 1's "Working Girls" (Scraggle)
    • Earl, from the season 2 premiere "The New Law" (Scraggle)
    • Rupert Brauner, from season 2's "Chinatown" (Lighty)
  • Spider-Girl:
    • Norman Osborn (Lighty)
    • Carnage (Overlord)

Edited by ACW on Jan 12th 2019 at 5:12:12 AM

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
MasterJoseph Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object from Not telling. Since: Mar, 2018
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#143686: Jan 12th 2019 at 2:20:17 AM

Mir and I were talking; Alesia may be a bit of a tough case.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#143687: Jan 12th 2019 at 2:33:58 AM

I would like to know what the other villains and the Villain Protagnist of thay work have actually done?

Alessa could still count if she genunily is the worst in that work and she may indeed be the worst but I would like too see that confirmed with a more through look at the heinous standard

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
lrrose Since: Jul, 2009
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#143691: Jan 12th 2019 at 7:53:09 AM

[tup] to Remor, Professor Jones and Henry Starling (so the guy figures out how to replicate technology that is from over eight hundred years ahead of his time, and the best he can do is become as second rate Steve Jobs? What an underachiever.)

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#143692: Jan 12th 2019 at 8:46:54 AM

[tup] Sister Jill.

Nice that Cutie Honey's still got material to work with. I remember just last year we got a bunch of keeps leading to its own page. Good memories.

11111001011 Since: Dec, 2018
#143693: Jan 12th 2019 at 8:53:02 AM

It probably will for a very long time. BTW, could someone discuss the (clearly) unapproved entries I found?

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#143694: Jan 12th 2019 at 8:54:52 AM

Since 43110 dropped the Mon Colle Knights, I'll probably take this one especially going to EP him.

Oh and ayup to Jill

Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Jan 12th 2019 at 11:55:10 PM

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#143695: Jan 12th 2019 at 9:04:45 AM

Cut Vulture (unless someone's gonna effortpost him?). The other one's at the CM page, so just keep that for now.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
TheMadCr0w Gentle Laborer from Insignificant Little Blue Planet Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
Gentle Laborer
#143696: Jan 12th 2019 at 9:05:08 AM

[tup] to the previous candidates and Happy B-Day, Jackie [awesome]

therealjackieboy Ultimate Moral Compass from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Ultimate Moral Compass
#143697: Jan 12th 2019 at 9:53:52 AM

Thanks for all the birthday wishes guys! Here are this week's writeups.

  • Footsteps (2006): Larry, the Cameraman, and Paul are a trio who run a snuff filmmaking organization. Larry serves as the organization’s boss who allows snuff films to be shot in his headquarters and gives guidelines for his films, while Paul lures drugged people to participate in his films as the murderers, with the Cameraman gleefully filming the whole event and willing to kill both murderer and victim should things go poorly. When he’s not disposing the bodies, Paul also acts as the company’s Loan Shark, threatening people with torture should they be late on their payment. When a woman name Michelle doesn’t pay up, Paul kills her and mortally wounds her boyfriend Dean.

  • Hellmaster (1992): Professor Jones is a Social Darwinist who wants to prove that God is dead by becoming one himself. Introducing an intelligence enhancing drug called “Reward” to the homeless promising to cure their desperate plight, it instead turns them into his mutant, psychic slaves that he sends to kill anyone in their path, including Robert’s wife Andrea. Deciding to use the drug on college students, the experiment ends in a failure, resulting in Jones kill his test subjects, faking his death, and burning the bodies to cover his tracks. Returning 20 years later, Jones decides to start over at the same college, where he kills his assistant Damon and unleashes his mutants onto the school.

Edited by therealjackieboy on Jan 12th 2019 at 10:02:47 AM

"No running in the halls!"
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#143698: Jan 12th 2019 at 9:57:55 AM

@therealjackieboy Btw, Jackie, think I'll probably start Ulysses EP at a later time. Since it's your birthday, if you want to start first, then okay. I'm going to EP for this character that I'm unsure of but I'll try to make an arguments on him.

Also, writeup for the two C Ms I approved:

  • The Asterisk War: Gustave Malraux is a former member of a terrorist organization of Asterisk that carries "Jade Dusk" plan in the past. Hired by Nicolas Enfield to stop his daughter, Claudia, participating in a tournament known as Gryps Festa, Gustave wastes no time to attack Claudia's best friends, Ayato and Julis, with his chimera when they visited Julis's home country, Lieseltania's, capital city which resulted on Julis tighten up the security in Lieseltania. Returning in Episode 24, Gustave then sends his chimera to attack the capital city in order to distract the police forces and plans to attack the orphanage in order to lure the heroes out. After he successfully lure them out, he then attacks them with his hydra while leaving the hydra causing destruction in the poor district of Lieseltania's capital city.
  • Sound of the Sky: Colonel Hopkins, better known as "The Demon of Vingt", is the leader of Helvetian Army's Ninth Independent Mobile Division who, prior to the main story, manipulates one of the members of Helvetian's 1121st Platoon, Noel Kannagi, by reviving an ancient weapon known as "The Invisible Reaper" in order to provoke the war against Roman Empire. This resulted on three cities ended up being destroyed and Noel traumatized by the events. In the present day, when the members of the 1121st Platoon taking care of the unconscious Roman Empire Soldier, Aisha Aldola, Hopkins then tries to took over the platoon and plans to use Aisha as the scapegoat of the war in order to prolong the conflict between Roman and Helvetia. When he overhears the news about the ceasefire of the Roman Army via the Citizens of Seize, Hopkins dismissed it and took the citizens as a hostage. A sadistic blood knight at his core, Hopkins justifies his atrocities by claiming that war can advanced the human civilization

How is it btw?

Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Jan 13th 2019 at 1:15:12 AM

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
TheUnsquished Filthy casual from Southern Limey Land (Life not ruined yet) Relationship Status: Married to the job
Filthy casual
#143699: Jan 12th 2019 at 10:00:28 AM

I found this on the YMMV page for the MLP:FiM fanfic Knights Of Equestria:

  • Complete Monster: It's one thing to kill a fallen enemy so they don't come back to do unto you later on but when The Master cackled about the prospect of showing off the corpses of his enemies because the idea of the lamentation of their friends and relatives made him all warm and fuzzy inside, he turned from bad guy into horror freak.

Edited by TheUnsquished on Jan 12th 2019 at 6:01:13 PM

(Annoyed grunt)
11111001011 Since: Dec, 2018
#143700: Jan 12th 2019 at 10:15:24 AM

Someone should EP the guy to see if he truly counts. He sounds nasty.


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