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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#325476: Oct 1st 2022 at 11:10:21 AM

Yes to Pat.

Leaning yes on Gemini, but even split-second cameos can't be tossed aside; look at Pericles.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Ordeaux26 Professor Gigachad from Canada Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Professor Gigachad
#325477: Oct 1st 2022 at 11:20:00 AM

That isn't really comparable at all. The Evil Entity is defeated and explicitly a timeline is created where the Evil Entity never existed and it is shown through a cameo that Pericles is friendly without the Evil Entity existing. With Gemini, he only shows up with no elaboration beyond that.

CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#325478: Oct 1st 2022 at 11:21:37 AM

[tup] Mega Man duo.

Anything else on Theo ?

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#325479: Oct 1st 2022 at 11:36:34 AM

[tup] to the mega Man duo and Theo.

The First man
Ordeaux26 Professor Gigachad from Canada Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#325481: Oct 1st 2022 at 11:50:02 AM

[tup] to General Oba, Gul Durak, Agatha, Theo, Pat and Gemini. [tdown] Jago.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#325482: Oct 1st 2022 at 11:50:35 AM

Uh. [tup] on Theo.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
HighfalutinQuelea Since: Sep, 2016
#325483: Oct 1st 2022 at 11:51:25 AM

Any comments on the Colm quote?

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#325484: Oct 1st 2022 at 12:12:23 PM

Still unsure about Theo, but since it seems like he'll be going up, mind writing him up tomorrow so I can get him and the Baron rewrite? I guess Theo goes first since he appeared first?

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#325485: Oct 1st 2022 at 12:20:08 PM

Theo appeared first but I’d put him under Vordenberg. He becomes The Dragon to Vordenberg and Inanna, and doesn’t become a full villain until late into season 2.

To avoid double posting.

  • Theo Straka starts out as an passive, if arrogant, acting leader of Zeta Omega Mu, with an open disdain for the Summers and Kirsch. When Vordenberg takes control of Silas, Theo becomes a supportive soldier of the regime, helping with the detainment of supernatural residents and their allies. When Theo seemingly offers to help the resistance with Mel, he betrays them when Vordenberg offers Theo a deal to be his second in command. Theo stabs Danny before her helpless friends, smugly watching as she bleeds out. Following Vordenberg’s death, Theo becomes the new representative of the Corvae Corporation, working directly under the Dean - the goddess Inanna - in her plot to bring about Hell on Earth, only caring that he’s in a position of power. Theo oversees the slavery of students in digging the gates of Hell, putting them through deadly and hazardous conditions, expecting his “brothers” to work under his authority. When a Summer sister makes a deal to benefit the others, Theo has her hang from her wrists above the first five gates, panning to drop her in.

Edited by Beast on Oct 1st 2022 at 2:07:28 AM

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Ordeaux26 Professor Gigachad from Canada Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Professor Gigachad
#325486: Oct 1st 2022 at 2:08:31 PM

Does anyone have a quote and a header for The Expanse so it can be locked on Monday?

CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#325487: Oct 1st 2022 at 2:15:47 PM

Possible quote idea. I guess it MAY work, but I'm not terribly fond of it.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
TheMadCr0w Gentle Laborer from Insignificant Little Blue Planet Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
Gentle Laborer
#325488: Oct 1st 2022 at 2:27:17 PM

[up][up] "While The Expanse mostly takes place in a Space Cold War where political extremists and war criminals exist on all sides, a few still manage to stand out as being especially vile."

Edited by TheMadCr0w on Oct 1st 2022 at 6:34:20 AM

Ordeaux26 Professor Gigachad from Canada Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Professor Gigachad
#325489: Oct 1st 2022 at 2:33:42 PM

I will need to slightly change it to.

While The Expanse, and its TV adaptation, mostly takes place in a Space Cold War where political extremists and war criminals exist on all sides, a few still manage to stand out as being especially vile.

But yeah this works.

CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
TheMadCr0w Gentle Laborer from Insignificant Little Blue Planet Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
Gentle Laborer
#325491: Oct 1st 2022 at 2:50:51 PM

[up] Marco has the best quotes but we're already using him for the image... Huh, I'll try to find better quotes later.

WarJay77 Big Catch, Sparkle Edition (Troper Knight)
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
#325492: Oct 1st 2022 at 2:51:22 PM

Oh, hey guys. Mir called me over. What's the issue? You're trying to split the Multimedia folder?

If I had to sort Neopets anywhere I'd sort it into a website folder; it had toys as merch but the website came first and is where all the content is.

(Just so ya'll know I'm hanging out with my bf today so while I can pop in occasionally to continue the discussion I won't be able to respond as quickly as I usually do)

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Ordeaux26 Professor Gigachad from Canada Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Professor Gigachad
#325493: Oct 1st 2022 at 2:52:39 PM

[up] It was already moved to that place, thanks for the confirmation that was the correct choice.

CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
TheLewandererz602555 Since: Jan, 2022 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#325494: Oct 1st 2022 at 2:56:04 PM

Here's one request about the "Image Links" section: can someone find an image representing Haman from the Book of Esther?

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#325495: Oct 1st 2022 at 3:03:55 PM

Crow: If necessary, we can have the same character for images and quotes. There are other pages that do that (Die Hard and Star Wars come to mind).

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Ordeaux26 Professor Gigachad from Canada Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Professor Gigachad
#325496: Oct 1st 2022 at 3:19:28 PM

  • Anime adaptation: Gemini and his host Pat Sprigs, also known as Gemini Spark in their combined form, are the Big Bad Duumvirate of the first series based on the first game. Pat Sprigs would be in a car accident and, out of spite for his apparent abandonment, he willingly agreed to be the host to the FM-ian, Gemini, despite knowing of his intentions to destroy Earth. Gemini Spark would first induce laughing fits in the population and cause dangerous car wrecks that endanger several lives. When Cygnus gets the Andromeda key, Gemini Spark steals the key and reveals that they plan on using the key to overthrow the FM King Cepheus. When the key is destroyed, Gemini Spark gives a fake key to the FM-ians so that they can use the real key for themselves. When the FM-ians fail to fill up the key and Cepheus orders them to leave Earth, Gemini Spark kills off most of the FM-ians, with only Cancer surviving. Gemini Spark activates the incomplete key anyway and first has Andromeda obliterate five cities. Pat would later betray and kill Gemini to power up the key fully and begin his own genocidal goals.

Here is the writeup for the Star Force anime duo, just so they can go in with this batch.

They go at the end of the Star Force section.

CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Purgatoryisof2 Man in the Yellow Hat Since: Aug, 2022
Man in the Yellow Hat
#325497: Oct 1st 2022 at 4:24:22 PM

A late [tup] to Pat and Gemini.

Alright, my attempt at a write up for Agatha. Once again, criticism appreciated if need be.

With this, I presume a The Land Before Time subsection will be needed under Movies-Animated in Fanworks, under which it and ''Of Leaf Eaters and Sharpteeth" Sharptooth will go.

Edited by Purgatoryisof2 on Oct 1st 2022 at 7:34:37 AM

He/Him
Awesomekid42 Since: Jul, 2012
#325498: Oct 1st 2022 at 4:37:10 PM

So, there's a portion from Dale's entry in Monk that needs fixing.

  • Dale J. Biederbeck III, aka Dale "the Whale", is an overweight, wealthy sociopath who serves as Adrian Monk's most personal, recurring foe. So rich that he sacrifices millions in exchange for ruining the lives of others just for spite and fun, Dale's first appearance sees him orchestrate the murder of a judge who crossed him in the past via beating her to death with a baseball bat. Though put in prison for this crime, Dale later kills one of his own partners and frames Monk for it, then schemes to bomb a parade and kill the Governor of California so as to facilitate his release, uncaring of the innocents who will die in the bombing. Dale returns one final time in the novel Mr. Monk Gets Even, where Dale uses an acolyte fangirl to cause a horrific traffic accident that kills four people and leaves dozens in critical condition before having her kill herself in his name, all as part of an elaborate attempt to escape custody. Dale never passes on a chance to psychologically torture and sadistically mock anyone vulnerable he can, and happily embraces being called an "odious, gluttonous, putrid freak of nature."

That doesn't happen in the potholed episode, Mr Monk Goes To Jail. That happens in Mr Monk Is On The Run. In the former episode, Dale doesn't do anything particularly evil at all, just trading information about Trudy's killer to Monk in exchange for Monk solving the murder of who killed Ray Caspo (because the investigation was stopping him from getting a window to his cell).

TheMadCr0w Gentle Laborer from Insignificant Little Blue Planet Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
Gentle Laborer
#325499: Oct 1st 2022 at 7:07:34 PM

Possible quote for The Expanse:

"Martians... You don't even know what you are. We train you not to know, little Martian children all lining up to be the best cogs in the machine. You stopped being human the day you claimed that miserable red planet. You're insects. Prideful insects, the whole hive of you. Scrambling to make their colony bigger. Whatever it costs... Whoever it costs. Well, it only takes one [hybrid soldier] and you'll never stop them all. You should thank me for putting them down, Belter. They'd do the same thing to you in a heartbeat and pat themselves on the back. They're all so fucking smug."
Augusto Nguyễn, "Immolation"

m-95 Har har har from my place of residence Since: Jun, 2021 Relationship Status: Loves me...loves me not
Har har har
#325500: Oct 1st 2022 at 8:11:28 PM

Hello. Sorry to interrupt, but I noticed that Mandela Catalogue has a CM entry and that it was proposed last year. However, I also noticed that the Mandela Catalogue is listed under Complete Monster Discussion Dates as "TBA", implying that it can't be discussed yet.

Is there something I'm missing here? Because something seems off.

Please visit the "AITA" forum game

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