Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
.....
Well, it's only a few hours until the 72 hour waiting period for the new and improved Lorion proposal passes.
I've noticed that with this new one, he has 7 ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
s and 0 ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
s. But I know that in his old version, he ends up getting several s and I think there are more than 2s... Does that still count?
Edited by ChrisX on May 28th 2023 at 10:35:01 PM
RIP Toriyama
Great work on the batch as always, ACW
Gonna reserve Season 3 of Warrior (2019) now that it's a month out.
Edited by Ravok on May 28th 2023 at 8:59:13 AM
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Shit, I gotta watch Warrior. Not necessarily for CM purposes, but it seems like my kind of show.
Where should Snee go in the tree?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
A nice swimmer
Didn't Snee get a lot of downvotes? Or did they get enough for it to be approved?
Due to unfortunate events, i will continue to exist until further notice.
Snee only got a handful of or abstains, it was mostly votes
Long awaited to Redd White and Blaise. Great work you two!
Yeah the Simon argument doesn't really hold water when Simon only kills directly one person and most of the people Simon had killed are Asshole Victims with possible exception of Horace Knightley. Knightley also constantly talked down about his victim, helped Simon on his way to evil thanks to his Hate Sink of a father, and was a general Jerkass to all but Keyes himself. And there's Jill Crane and Kay Faraday but aside from those three, yeah Simon's got nothing on
Debeste.
Edited by Klavice on May 28th 2023 at 10:18:13 AM
Fair warning: I can get pretty emotional and take things too seriously.
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
@ACW: At the bottom I guess? Since this is the most recent entry and it's from Cosmic Embers.
@TheWrongOne41: I did a count already.
Yes: Snowy66, PolarPhantom, EmperorGeode, TheJokster22, coolmaneditor, BillyPeepers92, MistaClean, TotemGenitor, TheGrayFox, Beast, G-Editor, MGD107, Agentofchaos.
No: STARCRUSHER99, 43110, Mr-ex777.
Abstain: TheMadCr0w, Ravok, therealjackieboy, Lightysnake, DoodSlayer136
That's 12 vs. 4 .
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Oh. Well then that's 13 vs. 3 now.
Edited by Tyk5919 on May 28th 2023 at 1:22:56 PM
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.I voted yes to Snee
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
A nice swimmer
Okay that does seem like enough. Congrats!
Due to unfortunate events, i will continue to exist until further notice.
The Moron
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
This is on me and my bad wording, but my vote was actually meant to be an abstain, so yeah, you’re more than good
Hey, I'm not sure if here is the place to ask, but I was considering recommending Palpatine from The Force Unleashed 2's Endor DLC. However, I don't know if I should do an EP for him or go over to the cleanup and just expand on his existing write up. The reason I ask is I’m wondering if you guys believe Endor DLC!Palpatine is separate enough from his character in the first game.
You don't need an extra EP for Palpatine's deeds in DLC. Take his Force Unleashed entry to the cleanup if you want to expand it.
Edited by Scraggle on May 28th 2023 at 2:12:47 AM
Understood. Thanks!
- Specialty of the House by Stanley Ellin: the mysterious Sbirro is the owner and proprietor of a little restaurant in New York with a small clientele and very restrictive rules. Beloved for the finest dish, Lamb Amirstan, the truth is a terrifying thing. Sbirro in fact runs his restaurant where patrons are eventually "replaced" by being cooked into Lamb Amirstan, the fate that eventually befalls protagonist Laffler when Sbirro finally invites him into his famed kitchen.
- Alfred Hitchcok Presents: Ms. Sbirro is the owner of the luxurious Sbirro's restaurant. Famed for her "specialty of the house," the incredible lamb, Sbirro is in truth cooking patrons into the meal. When Harry Laffler finds himself invited to the kitchen, Sbirro locks him in with her cleaver-armed chef and gleefully adds Laffler's picture to many other "absent friends" before adding she believes she can promise the specialty will be available the following week.
- Red Faction Guerilla: Joseph Broga is among the most vile of all the EDF. Taking the reins on training soldiers, Broga has instituted a policy of brutal torture on those they encounter. Many are subjected to "enhanced interrogation" at the hands of Broga's soldiers and trainees with many dying from the treatment they receive. One heroine has been given permanent scars all over her body from Broga's own personal attention.
- The Fountain: Grand Inquisitor Silecio, usurper of the Spanish Throne, has captured Queen Isabelle and plots to do away with her to expand the reach of the Inquisition. With countless innocents horrifically tortured to death, Silecio intends to kill even more and ensure that the whole country is subject to the Inquisition's horrific notions of purity.
- Gravity Falls fan-comic Deal: Bill Cipher is sadistic as ever in avenging his canon defeat. He mentally tortures Pacifica into involuntarily killing her newborn just to sow distrust and despair in the Pines family. Years later, Bill assaults Dipper for interfering in his plans. Duressed for her father, Gwen takes a deal with Bill, wherein he gleefully explains her Dark and Troubled Past before taking her body as a vessel for the apocalypse.
EDIT: Also, pardon me if I'm doing something wrong, but I don't think we have a sandbox for Disney Fan Works
Thanks!
Edited by ANonagon9 on May 28th 2023 at 5:35:18 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
We don't currently; I'll take care of that.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Just call me Solemn.
A giantesque to Blanco Nino* , and a to Blaise Debeste.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
- Gravity Falls fan webcomic Deal: Bill Cipher is sadistic as ever in avenging his canon defeat. He mentally tortures Pacifica into involuntarily killing her newborn just to sow distrust and despair in the Pines family. Years later, Bill assaults Dipper for interfering in his plans. Her father under duress, Gwen makes a deal with Bill, wherein he gleefully explains her Dark and Troubled Past before taking her body as a vessel for the apocalypse.
- The Fountain: Grand Inquisitor Silecio, usurper of the Spanish Throne, has captured Queen Isabelle and plots to do away with her to expand the reach of The Spanish Inquisition. With countless innocents horrifically tortured to death, Silecio intends to kill even more and ensure that the whole country is subject to the Inquisition's horrific notions of purity.
- "(The) Specialty of the House", by Stanley Ellin: the mysterious Sbirro is the owner and proprietor of a little restaurant in New York with a small clientele and very restrictive rules. Beloved for the finest dish, Lamb Amirstan, the truth is a terrifying thing. Sbirro in fact runs his restaurant where patrons are eventually "replaced" by being cooked into Lamb Amirstan, the fate that eventually befalls protagonist Laffler when Sbirro finally invites him into his famed kitchen.
- Alfred Hitchcock Presents' "Specialty of the House": Ms. Sbirro is the owner of the luxurious Sbirro's restaurant. Famed for her "specialty of the house", the incredible lamb, Sbirro is in truth cooking patrons into the meal. When Harry Laffler finds himself invited to the kitchen, Sbirro locks him in with her cleaver-armed chef and gleefully adds Laffler's picture to many other "absent friends" before adding she believes she can promise the specialty will be available the following week.
- Cosmic Embers Alternate Continuity: Snee is a Septed obsessed with recreating the Humanoids. In order to achieve this goal, Snee created a terrorist group known as the Brothers and Sisters of the Soil so they could terraform other planets. Not content with other races, Snee annihilated an entire species of sapient aliens on the planet dubbed "New Earth" and later surrounded the planet with a magnetic field to destroy all forms of technology. After brainwashing and genetically manipulating thousands of humans, Snee and the Brothers and Sisters of the Soil later killed 26 soldiers within the GRPC before being subdued and arrested.
- Guerilla:
- Admiral Lucius Kobel is a high-ranking member of the Earth Defense Force and the architect of their greatest weapon, the EMS Hydra, which he previously used to crush an uprising of East Asian rebels on Earth. Kobel is a shrewd politician who has been arranging for the situation on Mars to be brought into his control when General Roth inevitably fails to rein it in; when Roth is eventually eliminated, Kobel coldly rules all civilians "expendable" and swoops in to exterminate all life on Mars, Red Faction or not.
- Colonel Joseph Broga is among the most vile of all the EDF. Taking the reins on training soldiers, Broga has instituted a policy of brutal torture on those they encounter. Many are subjected to "enhanced interrogation" at the hands of Broga's soldiers and trainees with many dying from the treatment they receive. One heroine, Carmen Avila, has been given permanent scars all over her body from Broga's own personal attention.
- Captain Halvar Gunnarsen, the "Butcher of Chryse", is the EDF's "pit bull". Gunnarsen has already gained infamy by putting down a miner revolt with violence in Chryse, leading to 300 deaths, and is currently tasked with enforcing the EDF's rule over Dust with slavery and indiscriminate violence. Gunnarsen tries an exceptionally vile means of putting down rebellion: broadcasting a message through the town that [[BlatantLies dozens of disaffected miners can peacefully rally, only to order his EDF goons to open fire and kill them all.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
- Gravity Falls fan webcomic Deal: Bill Cipher is sadistic as ever in avenging his canon defeat. He mentally tortures Pacifica into involuntarily killing her newborn just to sow distrust and despair in the Pines family. Years later, Bill assaults Dipper for interfering in his plans. Her father under duress, Gwen makes a deal with Bill, wherein he gleefully explains her Dark and Troubled Past before taking her body as a vessel for the apocalypse.
- The Fountain: Grand Inquisitor Silecio, usurper of the Spanish Throne, has captured Queen Isabelle and plots to do away with her to expand the reach of The Spanish Inquisition. With countless innocents horrifically tortured to death, Silecio intends to kill even more and ensure that the whole country is subject to the Inquisition's horrific notions of purity.
- "(The) Specialty of the House", by Stanley Ellin: the mysterious Sbirro is the owner and proprietor of a little restaurant in New York with a small clientele and very restrictive rules. Beloved for the finest dish, Lamb Amirstan, the truth is a terrifying thing. Sbirro in fact runs his restaurant where patrons are eventually "replaced" by being cooked into Lamb Amirstan, the fate that eventually befalls protagonist Laffler when Sbirro finally invites him into his famed kitchen.
- Alfred Hitchcock Presents' "Specialty of the House": Ms. Sbirro is the owner of the luxurious Sbirro's restaurant. Famed for her "specialty of the house", the incredible lamb, Sbirro is in truth cooking patrons into the meal. When Harry Laffler finds himself invited to the kitchen, Sbirro locks him in with her cleaver-armed chef and gleefully adds Laffler's picture to many other "absent friends" before adding she believes she can promise the specialty will be available the following week.
- Cosmic Embers Alternate Continuity: Snee is a Septed obsessed with recreating the Humanoids. In order to achieve this goal, Snee created a terrorist group known as the Brothers and Sisters of the Soil so they could terraform other planets. Not content with other races, Snee annihilated an entire species of sapient aliens on the planet dubbed "New Earth" and later surrounded the planet with a magnetic field to destroy all forms of technology. After brainwashing and genetically manipulating thousands of humans, Snee and the Brothers and Sisters of the Soil later killed 26 soldiers within the GRPC before being subdued and arrested.
- Guerilla:
- Admiral Lucius Kobel is a high-ranking member of the Earth Defense Force and the architect of their greatest weapon, the EMS Hydra, which he previously used to crush an uprising of East Asian rebels on Earth. Kobel is a shrewd politician who has been arranging for the situation on Mars to be brought into his control when General Roth inevitably fails to rein it in; when Roth is eventually eliminated, Kobel coldly rules all civilians "expendable" and swoops in to exterminate all life on Mars, Red Faction or not.
- Colonel Joseph Broga is among the most vile of all the EDF. Taking the reins on training soldiers, Broga has instituted a policy of brutal torture on those they encounter. Many are subjected to "enhanced interrogation" at the hands of Broga's soldiers and trainees with many dying from the treatment they receive. One heroine, Carmen Avila, has been given permanent scars all over her body from Broga's own personal attention.
- Captain Halvar Gunnarsen, the "Butcher of Chryse", is the EDF's "pit bull". Gunnarsen has already gained infamy by putting down a miner revolt with violence in Chryse, leading to 300 deaths, and is currently tasked with enforcing the EDF's rule over Dust with slavery and indiscriminate violence. Gunnarsen tries an exceptionally vile means of putting down rebellion: broadcasting a message through the town that dozens of disaffected miners can peacefully rally, only to order his EDF goons to open fire and kill them all.
one I wish to do before The Mother....a reeval based on the Blu Ray, which brings us the deleted scenes: Dracula Untold.
What's the work?
A retelling of Dracula as an origin story originally meant to launch the Dark Universe which never happened. Luke Evans stars as Vlad, the Prince of Wallachia who makes a devil's bargain to become a monster to save his people from the Ottomans....
And the extended scenes make the lead villain a damn sight worse: I give you Mehmed II
Who is Mehmed?
Son of Murad, the ruthless Sultan of the Ottoman Empire. When Vlad was young, Mehmed's father had a policy of taking Wallachian children as hostages including Vlad. Mehmed is continuing the practice with more child soldiers and demands a percentage of wallachia's children to become Ottoman soldiers, to be beaten and turned into cannon fodder for the Ottomans.
Vlad, with a history of warfare with the Ottomans, is enraged and seeks the power to save his nation and family. Especially when his son is demanded by Mehmed. Vlad makes a pact with an ancient creature in a cave and becomes a vampire. His people hole up in a fortress where the Ottomans advance...what sets it apart though? The Blu Ray shows that Mehmed has rampaged through Wallachia, massacring every village he finds. Except the boys, those he takes to be taken and converted.
Ultimately, Mehmed's plot results in the massacre of almost every soldier and civilian in the fotress, Vlad unable to save his wife and his son is kidnapped. His wife offers her blood so vlad will have the power, and Vlad revives the dying, and turns the survivors to massacre the Ottomans.
Single combat with Mehmed, who uses silve,r ensues, but Vlad overcomes the Sultan and kills him via draining his blood.
Mitigating issues?
Nah, the question was always if Mehmed was bad enough, and here it adds a few crimes to push him over. The Blu Ray shows him having slaughtered numerous innocent villages and taken all the boys, plus the 1000 boys demanded as tribute and the total slaughter of the castle? I think Mehmed is just bad enough here.
No good qualities either.
Conclusion?
What say we?
Mehmed.
to Mehmed II. Such a shame the Dark Universe never materialised.
Goku Black
mehmed
And I Darken also does that. But we'll no one counts their at least for here.
Edited by miraculous on May 28th 2023 at 5:57:04 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
...Phenomenal
for Mehmed II. A take on Dracula where the Ottomans actually play a big part, neat.
Shit, I forgot about my write-up. Lemme fix that.
- RPC Authority: Snee is a Septed obsessed with recreating the Humanoids. In order to achieve this goal, Snee created a terrorist group known as the Brothers and Sisters of the Soil so they could terraform other planets. Not content with other races, Snee annihilated an entire species of sapient aliens on the planet dubbed "New Earth" and later surrounded the planet with a magnetic field to destroy all forms of technology. After brainwashing and genetically manipulating thousands of humans, Snee and the Brothers and Sisters of the Soil later killed twenty-six soldiers within the GRPC before being subdued and arrested.
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.