During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
- Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.
- What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
- Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
- Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
- Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
- Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
- Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.
- What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.
- Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.
- What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
- Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
- Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
- List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
- The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.
- How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.
- What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.
- What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.
- What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.
- Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.
- What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.
- Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.
- What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.
- Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.
- My example/edit has been approved, but the example subpage is locked! How do I get it added?: The moderators do not add examples to locked example subpages in the MagnificentBastard/ namespace directly. Rather, you need to do the edit to a sandbox page that follows the format Sandbox.MagnificentBastard<Name of the example subpage> (e.g for MagnificentBastard.Fullmetal Alchemist it's Sandbox.Magnificent Bastard Fullmetal Alchemist) and on a Friday, ask in the locked pages edit requests thread for the content to be swapped in.
Thread rules
When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.
Resolved items
In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.
However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.
This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.
Definitely an MB
- Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers: Any sadism Darkrai displays is limited in effect thanks to the game's nature and any cowardice which can be inferred about him is Alternative Character Interpretation about his tactical retreats.
- Avatar: The Last Airbender: Azula's Villainous Breakdown is undone in the sequel comic Smoke & Shadow where she regains her composure and ends up stable and in control enough to count.
Definitely not an MB
- South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM
The Moron
I'm at least willing to hear that out - when one of mine is basically a daydream, I'm totally willing to hear out a hallucination
Lies and Violence!
It's only the back half of one chapter. Not too in depth — no dialogue or anything — but a good amount of detail on what each individual version does in their rise to power.
Edited by EmeraldEmperor on May 1st 2022 at 8:38:06 AM
That seems workable. Some of the historical ASOIAF characters aren't exactly monologuers.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Roland, Lupin, Alfredo and Tico
The MILF Virus
Roland, Lupin, Alfredo and Tico
Lies and Violence!
In that case (God, three more onto the pile. At this rate, I'm certain there will still be some characters I forgot about by the time I finish going through my list. I love this book)!
This series follows Catherine Foundling, an orphan girl from the conquered Kingdom of Callow. While resentful of the Dread Empire of Praes, she recognizes the foolishness in attempting to fight back through heroic rebellion, and instead hopes to raise enough money in pit fighting to get into the Imperial War College and reform her homeland from within the Empire itself.
One day, Cat is almost killed while trying to save a girl from a rapist. She herself is saved by the Black Knight, who, for reasons of his own, decides to take her on as his Squire. With her personal Legion, co-lead by Legate Juniper, she goes through various trials and tribulations — notably two distinct rivalries with a Praesi noble named Akua Sahelian, the Heiress, and a Callowan rebel hero named William, the Lone Swordsman — all the while the neighboring nation of Procer prepares for a crusade against the Empire, which would necessitate an invasion of Callow.
Long story short, Cat is on her way to a climactic final fight with Akua (now the Diabolist), only to be trapped in something called the Fourfold Crossing. I have absolutely no idea what the fuck this thing is. Basically, it splits her between four distinct visions, one of which just has her normally confronting Akua while the other three show how her life could have been like had the night she met Black gone differently. I think it was designed to get her to submit to Akua, seeing how all four end with Cat being forced to kneel before her. Word of God says the other three visions aren't accurate displays of how her life would have gone, especially since part of the reason Black was in town in the first place was to kill Cat for being a potential heroine in the making (he changed his mind after meeting her, of course).
With that out of the way:
Who is General Foundling / The Tolltaker / The White Knight?
Had Cat never come across the rapist, she would have stuck to pit fights in hopes of earning enough for the War College tuition. However, mere pit fights weren't making her enough money, so she soon graduated to full on death matches. When she finally gets into the College, she's already missing an eye and has "more scars than a girl her age should have."
Unfortunately, in one of the College's war games, an orc permanently injured her wrist, seemingly out of racist hate for her "people" (the Deoraithe, particularly obnoxious assholes infamous for being very good at killing invaders, i.e., Praesi, i.e., orcs). She was never able to tolerate orcs after that, the goblins were secretive assholes, and the Praesi soldiers just pretended she didn't exist, leaving Cat pretty isolated. By the time she's 23, she realizes betrayal is the only way to really rise up the Praesi ranks, and poisons her direct superior to take their place as Staff Tribune. At 29, Praes finally erupts into civil war, and Cat sees her chance to rise even higher. Making a deal with Akua's mother to overthrow Dread Empress Malicia, Cat slaughters the other senior officers of the Fourteenth Legion to take command as its general, recruiting the leftover rebellious elements of Callow to finally get revenge on their oppressors. She proceeds to massacre her way through the rest of the Legions of Terror, with only Juniper managing to keep her at bay — but while they're busy fighting, Akua is free to terrorize the rest of Praes and send Malicia fleeing. Juniper is eventually forced to retreat, leaving Callow to Cat, who proceeds to execute a bunch of local Praesi governors — including those allied with the Sahelians. Eventually, Akua opens a massive portal to Hell in the middle of the Callowan city Juniper is holding out in, killing off the remaining loyalists but also hundreds of Callowans.
Something as powerful as, you know, the ability to create permanent portals to Hell naturally raises the hackles of Procer, who finally decide now's the time for a Crusade. Cat, naturally a bit miffed about the whole "killing hundreds of her countrymen" thing, prepares to make an alliance with Procer... only for a giant flying fortress to appear over her capital.
"Kneel," Akua Sahelian ordered, crowned in dread.
Had Cat begun to lose at her pit fights, she never would have saved enough money to enter the War College. Embittered by her failures, she eventually kills a city guard in a fight and, seeking to avoid jail time, joins the Smugglers' Guild. Through lies and violence she eventually managed to make back more than enough money for the College's tuition, but, having seen the true, ugly face of the Kingdom she once dreamed of saving so long ago, decides there's nothing worth saving.
From there she decides to expand her power base over the criminal underworld, working her way up to second-in-command of the Smugglers before approaching the other "Dark Guilds." The Hedge Guilds quickly folded after their leader was found strung up in the middle of town. The King of Thieves had his crown melted down and poured down his throat. And when the Assassins offered truce, she met them with steel in hand and told them to kneel.
Effectively becoming the Kingpin of Callow, the "Tolltaker" was soon feared by all, with her will being just as respected as that of the Dread Empress herself. When paid by a group of heroes to smuggle them into Callow so they could kill the Black Knight, she instead sold them out to be slaughtered, using the money earned from the incident to buy a beautiful mansion only to burn it down just because she could.
As the Praesi begin to backstab each other the Tolltaker decides to take advantage of the chaos, executing all of the local Imperial governors and selling out the Callowan nobles who subsequently plotted rebellion, all the while evading the Praesi legions herself. When Procer begins their Crusade, she has their figurehead assassinated in the middle of his army just for the sheer hell of it, and even manages to kill the seemingly immortal Assassin by burning it with enough goblinfire (400 or so chapters later and it's revealed the reason Assassin can keep coming back from the dead is because it's just a series of corpse-puppets made by Eudokia; the Tolltaker was able to significantly burn the Inscription she uses to control these puppets, damaging it beyond repair). In the midst of all the chaos, horrific warfare and rebellions Cat helps along just for shits and giggles, a certain Praesi noble overthrows Malicia.
"Kneel," Akua Sahelian ordered, crowned in dread.
Has Cat been saved from the rapist by the Lone Swordsman instead of the Black Knight, she would have joined his rebellion — not out of belief that it would work, but because she believes in paying back her debts. She proves to be utterly ruthless, slitting the throat of the first Imperial spy they come across, and eventually earns the Name of Squire.
Uniting William's band of heroes together, Cat leads them in defeating the fearsome Warlock. The details aren't expanded on, but it apparently involved killing his son, subsequently leading to half of an entire city being wiped out. Undeterred, Cat's band kills Imperial governors and generals wherever they go, always managing to evade the Black Knight as he wipes out entire cities in pursuit of them, while spurning Procer's attempts to make an alliance for the "liberation" of Callow. They will not trade one foreign master for another.
The fires of rebellion soon began to spread, but not without consequences. As Catherine inspires massive "bloodlettings" of Praesi across the country, a military defeat at the hands of Juniper fractures the war into "a hundred smaller ones," and while wherever she went she won, she wasn't able to be everywhere.
And then Procer invades. Procerans are kind of douches.
Cat is caught unprepared, unlike the Praesi, who proceed to torch the entire landscape. Still, she manages to rally Callow, and while the rest of her band sends Procer packing she goes to confront the Black Knight in a fearsome battle that lasts three days, ending with her rising as the White Knight. Callow, now less of a country and more of a graveyard and an army rolled into one, marches to reclaim the last stretches of their land...
Only to be met with the noble who usurped Dread Empress Malicia's throne in the madness.
"Kneel," Akua Sahelian ordered, crowned in dread.
Now, before all this happened, Black gave Cat a warning. Back when he was still the Squire, he had his own Arch-Enemy in the form of the Heir, who used the Fourfold Crossing on him as well. He was apparently stuck in it for months before he was saved by the Warlock. So, what advice does he give his apprentice?
I/General Foundling/the Tolltaker/the White Knight rose, and shoved steel through her throat.
Any mitigating factors?
Each of the three versions of Cat proves to just as utterly brilliant, ruthless, and charismatic as the main version, unafraid to murder any in their way and each managing to take over Callow in some fashion. The White Knight has it the hardest, seeing how she racks up a horrific amount of collateral damage, but her band seems pretty undetterred by this and only more encouraged to strike back twice as hard at their enemies.
Granted, every version also ends up with Akua's forces ready to massacre them, but:
- That's blatantly just Akua messing with the endings of the visions — while I might be able to believe Black and Malicia would be stupid enough to make the mistakes they did here, there's absolutely no way they'd ever let themselves get overthrown by Akua of all people.
- Every version also ends with Akua dead, one last stance of defiance against the tyrant.
- Stabbing Akua leads to Cat breaking free from the visions, so any argument of "wouldn't her minions just kill her in revenge?" is just Fridge Logic.
Gotta love Jaws!
to Roland, Lupin, Alfredo, Tico and Foundling.
Yes Foundling.
- The Good Guys
- "Common Enemies": Roland the Tech Bandit is a dedicated food blogger who finances his passion by stealing software from tech companies. He uses his acrobatic skills to break into highly secure corporate buildings without leaving a trace. When Dan and Jack catch him, he takes it with grave and amusement while saying that he's glad that it wasn't a Jerkass whose been after him for years who finally closed the case. Roland is released from jail to help rescue Liz and Ruiz from a hostage situation, and he succeeds in saving the day but then promptly escapes despite his earlier promise not to. The episode ends with Roland preparing for his next heist and his next restaurant review, while being accompanied by a filmmaker who originally set out to make a documentary about his pursuers but finds Roland more interesting.
- "Little Things" Alfredo and Tico are two Mexican cartel members with a Start My Own scheme. They fake their own deaths and go to America, purchasing fake identities to use in their drug empire. Alfredo and Tico kill everyone who encounters them at this point in their plan to eliminate threats of exposure, but they generally do so with regret and introspection. At one point, Alfredo gives one man they plan to kill a wad of money first to Let Them Die Happy. The two also maintain a good Villainous Friendship and take their arrest with disappointment but dignity.
for Roland, Lupin, Alfredo and Tico, and Foundling.
Yes to Foundling.
Before I write up The Bride, there's one more from Kill Bill I want to try. This one is a One-Scene Wonder, but I feel like she makes enough of an impact on the audience to be worth an EP.
Who is Karen Kim?
Her sole appearance in a scene little more than three minutes, Karen Kim is a professional assassin who tries to kill Beatrix just after she found out she was pregnant with Bill's child. While Bea is staying in a hotel room, Karen knocks on her door in the guise of the hospitality manager saying she has a welcoming gift from management. The "welcome gift" turns out to be a loaded shotgun that would have ended the movie early had Bea not stooped down by complete coincidence to pick up her pregnancy test. After blowing a hole in the door, Karen kicks it in and blocks a knife throw from Bea and gets into a Mexican Standoff with her. After a few boasts from both sides, Karen "fucking surgeon with this shotgun" Kim learns Bea is pregnant after she pleads for her unborn baby's life. After finding and reading the pregnancy test, Karen proves to have a heart and gives Beatrix a final "Congratulations" before leaving her target be. The full scene is below. I suggest watching it before casting your vote since it's only around three minutes.
Is she magnificent?
Karen shows off her assassin credentials by pulling off a clever disguise to throw off Bea's suspicions and would have killed her if not for a complete coincidence. She further shows her competency by scanning the room before using the butt of her shotgun to block a swift knife throw. In her short time on screen, she shows an intimidating presence while also earning major humanity points for not going through with the hit after learning her target was pregnant.
Is she a bitch?
Even with her humanizing traits, Karen was still a professional assassin more than willing to blow someone's head off.
Final Verdict?
For a One-Scene Wonder, she shows off all the basic requirements for the trope, but I'll let you guys decide if it's enough.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
to Karen. One-Scene Wonder MB's have been accepted in the past
Edited by magnumtropus on May 1st 2022 at 6:42:33 PM
Cats and Karen
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Roland, Lupin, Alfredo, Tico, Foundling, Karen
Just wanna announce I'm taking a few weeks off this and the CM thread until the end of May because its the end of my first year of uni so I'll see you all then!
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Yes to White Knight and Karen.
Showtime!
to the alternate Cats and Karen
Yes to Karen.
When Gary from Game Night got proposed (a good choice, by the way) the troper said the Bulgarian and Brooks from the same film don't count. I don't think I agree. The Bulgarian spares a bunch of innocent bystanders and tracks down Brooks far away from his house in the middle of town after he got kidnaped by an unpredictable third party (showing some intelligence even if it is offscreen). Brooks comes out ahead at the end (maybe, the ending is a bit ambiguous), is planning something good for his brother and tries to sacrifice himself for others, plus up a good fight when he's being kidnapped, and is only originally kidnapped by people who he hadn't screwed over and had no idea about, making it possible he had some plan to be far away from where the Bulgarian could find him as the gam night continued through the city. It's been nine months since I last saw the movie so I don't think I can give them E Ps right now, but I feel like they might deserve ones.
Work
The Good Guys #5
Character
Kenny (his last name is Griffith or Griffen o something like that but I'm not sure which and he's just credited as Kenny so I'll stick with that) is a suave hired arsonist played by Method Man, who the detectives are pointed toward by Jack's uncle, who is secretly plotting to steal sting money operation.
What does he do?
Kenny is a dreaded arsonist. Snitch, pawn shop owner, and bartender Julius Grant refuses to let Kenny's name be mentioned around him and says Kenny once burned down his cousin's garage...twice. It's implied he has burned people alive in the past due to Julius's fear and Kenny askin if they knwothe smell of cooking fish, but this is offStageVillainy.
Kenny hires Hank to introduce him to clients who want people burned out, something Nate does for a year. Some developers hire Kenny to burn or scare out some people in a fancy suburbs so they can buy it up and redevelop it. He succeeds in scaring most off and burns out one (nonfatally) who resists but that leaves one holdout with a shotgun (Kenny sends a subordinate, whose captured, to try and burn her house rather than go personally). When his clients talk to him about this, Kenny says Rome wasn't built in a day and th people who livd there weren't driven off in on and intimidates them with a lit match. Nate rats outKenny, hoping to rob the department of sting operation money in a Long Game.
They have Dan, under the alias Mr. Cummings, try to hire Kenny do do something illegal. Kenny says that he prefers using violence as a last resort and wants to meet the supposed person they need burned out to try and negotiate first. Caught off guard, they name Julius and Hilarity Ensues. They go to Julius' bar (jack persuades him to play the part, reluctantly). Kenny is menacing but polite and seems satisfied when Julius says he won't give them ay trouble. Quickly, Dan claims that Julius has a "No" Means "Yes" habit, leading to a confusing conversation where Kenny thinks Julius is making fun of him, especially when Julius doesn't recognize the name Mr. Cummings and tris to say he doesn't even own the bar. Kenny leaves with threats, and invites Dan to meet him at a benefit to save the Wetlands at his Big Fancy House (showing genuine sympathy for the turtles there).
At the benefit Kenny takes the job, saying he won't burn Julius out right away but irs prepared to. Dan reveals he's a cop and pulls gun. Kenny knocks the gun out of Dan's hand and runs. He runs into Jack, overpowers him and use Jacks own cuffs to retrain him, then holds Dan at gunpoint with Jack's gun. Kenny says he'll kill Jack and make Dan his hostage and that he doesn't care when Dan says Jack has a dog. Dan then subtly says there's one thing wrong with Jakcs' dog, cuing Jack to bite Kenny's ankle like his dog does. This distracts Kenny, who is overpowered,d handcuffed, and led away while glaring.
Nate tries to steal the money but fails.
Magnificent
He's eco friendly (arson aside), he only burns out people who won't sale without his intervention, and he puts up a good fight and chase rather than panic when he's being busted.
Bastard
He's an arsonist who destroys people's homes and is implied to kill people.
Competition in the episode?
His clients are weak-willed suits, and Uncle Nate is a Bitch in Sheep's Clothing who repeatedly screws over his family and who (despite a charming front) gets played by th boorish Dan of all people, who is onto him from the start.
Edited by Melinda on May 2nd 2022 at 6:55:31 AM
The wifi here sucks
Abstain on Karen (the short screentime makes it difficult for me to say she's magnificent enough) and Kenny (I'm getting that he's smarter than average but not much beyond that)
Regarding Game Night, the Bulgarian is apparently a human trafficker which makes him too bad to count even if it's Offscreen Villainy, Brooks...I personally can't stand the guy but others would probably feel otherwise.
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
Will read the EPs later, but the whole point of Brooks character is that he's a smug jackass rubbing his success in his brothers face. He's hilarious, don't get me wrong, but I don't think he's well and truly Magnificent.
Edited by jjjj2 on May 2nd 2022 at 11:06:35 AM
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
I've had plenty of time to research and form opinions on the Hitman MBs. Here are some of my opinions on those who may not count.
- Arthur Edwards: He fails to stack up to the competition of Diana Burnwood, who directly tricks him into believing her fake defection. This is supported by Diana's own words stating that "He is cocky, and that will be his downfall", and his intel profile, which further asserts that it's his ego that guided his choice in giving her a position of power.
- Olivia Hall: When most of the people in the franchise end up committing homicides, being a hacker whose only kills are either done out of necessity by proxy (Hush and Royce) or in self-defence (the sole ICA agent outside the nightclub in Apex Predator) makes Olivia seem too non-bastardly to count.
- Emma Carlisle: A conversation in Mendoza heavily implies that Phineas Whitmer, the private detective on the map, eventually caught Emma. This is supported by the fact that he seems to have noticed a strong physical resemblance between Emma and the biololgical Carlisles, securing her motive. Alongside this, the only way for Emma to kill Alexa is to have 47 make it so (fixing the poison distillery and framing Mr Fernsby).
Also, there's a weird sentence fragment in the Agent 47 film example: "Discovering the location of Litvenko's daughter Katia by ambushing Syndicate operatives."
TRS Wick Cleaning
I think I'm still fine with Olivia and Emma even with those arguments, but Arthur does sound like one that needs reevaluation if that's the case on him.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
I know nothing about Hitman so I don't think I'll be of much use but these sound like fair concerns. High, IIRC they're yours?
RIP Toriyama
Good on Karen, abstaining on Kenny for the moment... absolutely love Game Night and don't feel Brooks is near this, Bulgarian is also kind of eh to me, he goes down really silly and he's not so great of a schemer/charmer for me to overlook that and that Gary outpaces literally everyone in the film until the Bulgarian just outguns him—and even then, the end of the movie only further spends time emphasizing how brilliant and thought out Gary's cunning was. I don't think Bulgarian hits even without the implications of human trafficking going on with him.
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
The wifi here sucks
Regarding the Hitman stuff, I'll give my personal opinion on each character
The Constant I think is fine, yes he is ego driven but he's not a Smug Snake, and I think he still counts even with Diana's deception. The guy made a very strong ploy to make her betray 47 by telling her 47 killed her parents and even when he learns about the deception he decides to Face Death with Dignity. He's pushing it when it comes to a character being outplayed but I think he still makes it.
Olivia, at least to me, is exactly as much of a bastard as Lucas Grey since she helps him and 47 out with their assassinations and knows full well that her actions are getting people killed.
Emma I think is also fine, a character losing isn't a disqualifier, and she's smart enough with or without also killing Alexa.
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
to Karen Kim.
Abstain on the Hitman example. I'm not familiar with the work and don't feel like looking up the original proposals.
Is there enough of a narrative in the hallucinations? If there is I'd be up for an EP, granted if they're all just alternate versions, maybe condense them to one writeup if they are approved since they're all hallucinations filling the same niche in a story, just different versions of that niche.
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid