Broken Base Cleanup

Political Correctness Gone Mad is No Real Life Examples, Please!; that part at least has to go.

BrokenBase.The Loud House mixes Base-Breaking Character with Broken Base into page. I'm also pretty sure a lot of the examples are too minor to count as examples of Broken Base.

Im going to agree with you.

I was browsing the YMMV page for The Jungle Book (2016), and found a few entries for the film. I have a major issue with one, and the rest I'm bringing up just for extra feedback:

The entry about Kaa was clearly written before the film came out and has a lot of speculation about it. I think most people who watched the movie felt Kaa was mostly underutilized, and this is no longer the only film to change Kaa's gender. The stuff about King Louie might count, but I'm not sure if it's a huge point of contention. The bit about the ending can stay though, although the pothole to Unfortunate Implications needs to be cut without a proper citation.

Any thoughts?

X4 The link has to go, or the whole sentence? For now, I just replaced the former.

I meant the link. Rewording is fine; the problem was that it was applying the trope to real life despite it forbidding real life examples.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Dec 14th 2018 at 9:43:02 AM

BrokenBase.Final Fantasy XV has a lot of one-sided complaining, as well as an entry for something that happened a month ago.

" The various DLC Episodes and other planned post-release updates announced for the game. Many were happy that they could finally do things such as play as Gladio, Prompto, and Ignis and were looking forward to the story and world being fleshed out, while just as many were disgruntled over the fact that they'd have to pay for something they feel should have been in the game in the first place, a fact not helped by the main story seemingly having deliberate gaps meant to incentivize purchasing the DLC.

The playable party case is particularly bad. After Tabata defended with his own life having only Noctis playable, and the fact this patch took two years to come, you won't be surprised at seeing people saying it is too late for him to start fixing his mistakes. Then again, Yoshinori Ono did the same with Street Fighter V and the Arcade Mode... And got praised for owning up to the game's flaws.

On that matter, the future updates that promised a Golden Ending... by 2019. There were people questioning if Tabata's work on this game would actually survive that much time, and quipping that the game would be pretty much dead by the time they come, if they come, becoming new updates for a game that nobody would be playing by then. Those fears were later confirmed as it was announced in November 2018 that Square Enix had dropped three out of the four DLC, leaving only Episode Ardyn in the plans, and Hajime Tabata had officially left Square Enix. While Square promised to tell the Golden Ending via other media, this left a very sour taste in players' mouths, as Final Fantasy XV is essentially left as an incomplete game in comparison to Tabata's original plan.

While many were glad that Square is finally moving on from Final Fantasy XV, many, many people were more than upset at the abrupt cancellation of Episodes Aranea, Lunafreya, and Noctis, as mentioned above. For starters, these DLC Episodes would've been the first — and only — chance to get playable female heroes in the game, not to mention it would've considerably fleshed out both Aranea and Luna. To really add insult to injury, these cancellations were announced during the second anniversary event. A stream that was hyped for weeks. It's like waiting on telling someone they have cancer until their birthday. But what really makes the situation suck is Hajime Tabata's abrupt "resignation" — just seven months after he was given the reigns for their most expensive development studio yet, and this was right after Square Enix lost 33 million dollars on an unreported investment within the studio. Keep in mind that Tabata agreed to head Luminous Productions specifically so he can see his own visions come to life, and yet in his resignation letter, he specifically cited leaving to see these visions come to life. The entire situation feels like a Square Enix mismanagement shitshow where Tabata was the convenient Fall Guy, while Final Fantasy XV and the rest of its staff all suffered as a result. At least we're still getting Episode Ardyn...

And the final salt in the wound with this announcement? All development for the Windows Edition will cease — and that includes the Ebony editor, a much hyped and marketed selling point for the PC version. Which means fans won't even be able to create their own playable Aranea or Lunafreya adventures that won't be simple, cheap reskins of Noctis or any other character. Not unless creative and innovative fans put together their own editor (which some have already started on). Once in Development Hell, always in Development Hell..."

That's pretty much all complaining with some token, "but some aren't entirely dissatisfied".

That all looks like it should be moved to Internet Backdraft or Executive Meddling or Screwed by the Network or... Maybe just deleted.

Edited by PhiSat on Dec 19th 2018 at 12:38:36 PM

From YMMV.Full Metal Jacket

• Broken Base: In spite of its impressive 95% score on Rotten Tomatoes, the movie tends to be quite divisive even among Kubrick fans. While the drilling act of the story is widely considered to be one of the most memorable within the war genre, it is the general consensus that the Vietnam parts, if decent on their own right, never quite reach the intensity of the first hour (or, worse yet, fail to impress in view of another Vietnam-themed film released a year before, Platoon). Much of the criticism is levelled against the decision to make it almost completely unrelated to the drilling part and the fact that you could legitimately start watching the movie from its middle section and lose practically nothing in terms of the story. Some speculate that having both Hartman and Pyle survive and go to Vietnam together only to learn respect for one another over the course of fighting would have made for a much more memorable experience.

It's about general reception and is mostly a negative review. Can I cut?

Yeah, that's a cut for me.

Cut

Bringing up this example from Love, Simon:

• Broken Base: While the majority of people agree that Abby had a right to be upset with Simon, as he could've told her about Martin's blackmail after he came out to her, thus ending his lies and her being used and forced to endure Martin's presence, fans are more divided on whether Nick's anger is justified. Does he have a right to be mad at his childhood friend for keeping him away from his crush for a few weeks due to blackmail or is he just being petty for abandoning Simon when he needs him? Most people agree, however, that Leah was unnecessarily harsh for abandoning Simon for not liking her back and genuinely believing she liked Nick.

So it's been 3 days, any chance I could get a response regarding the example I brought up above?

From YMMV.Kirby Star Allies:

• Is the game's low difficulty to be expected for a Kirby game, or does Star Allies take it too far compared to earlier games because of the allies and simpler level/boss design?
• The game running at 30 FPS instead of 60 FPS. Defenders say that the lower frame rate allows for more Visual Effects of Awesome, while detractors argue that 30 FPS is less than ideal for side-scrolling and/or platform games.

I've heard nothing but complaints about the difficulty. People consider the game too easy even by Kirby standards.

I don't think anybody actually defends the low framerate considering it's pretty much inexcusable. Reminder that Smash is way more intensive on the Switch and runs at a consistent 60 FPS.

Edited by Karxrida on Dec 30th 2018 at 10:05:29 AM

So it's been 8 days, any chance I could get a response regarding the example I brought up above?

So it's been 11 days, any chance I could get a response regarding the example I brought up above?

From YMMV.Warrior Cats:

• "Did the books start to suck after the first series?" in particular tends to incite flame wars all around.
• Every single major character in the series. And try to find a fan who doesn't either utterly love Ashfur to death or completely despise him.
• ...and shippings.
• The topic of a film is a contentious one amongst fans. Should it be adapted or not? Which arc(s), or would a completely original story based in the universe be better? Which characters should be Adapted Out or made into Composite Characters, as will inevitably happen due to the Loads And Loads Of Characters? American/Canadian accents or British? What animation style? There are a lot of discussions and much of it revolves around arguing.
• Much of the fanbase draws fanart of the characters, however how to draw characters has become this. Thanks in no part to vague descriptions and Depending on the Artist, the characters can be depicted many ways (for example, is Firestar a tabby or a completely red?). Should [x] character be lean, muscular, fluffy, tall, stocky, etc? Tuft of Head Fur or not? Should leaders have stars on their foreheads? Nevermind artists who draw the characters as being genetically accurate, no matter what their canonical colours are.
• Who was in the right during the events of Mapleshade's Vengeance: Mapleshade herself, or Ravenwing, Frecklewish, and Appledusk? Many fans give Mapleshade the Draco in Leather Pants treatment and say she was justified in murdering the three cats because they were partly responsible for the tragic events that happened to her (Ravenwing for exposing her secret and getting her kicked out of the Clan, Frecklewish for not saving her kits, and Appledusk blaming her for their kits' deaths and taking a new mate). Others believe that Mapleshade has no excuse for her actions, that her three victims did not deserve to be murdered and were only doing what they thought was right (Ravenwing could not lie to his Clan leader, Frecklewish thought the kits would be saved by RiverClan, and Appledusk really did hold her responsible for the deaths).
• A Vision of Shadows is a huge one amongst fans. It has a sizeable amount of fans who like it for the interesting characters, SkyClan returning to the lake, and the focus on another Clan besides ThunderClan. However, they pale to its haters, who say that it's repetetive, boring, and cliched, the pairings have no developement, and the side characters are basically reduced to patrol cats.
• Whether the series is turning into a Cash-Cow Franchise is another debate that incites flame wars.

Cant be sure on Mapleshade's Vengeance or Vision of Shadows examples, but the rest can be deleted for being Zero Context Example and not be ckear on whats being broken.

• Did the books start to suck after the first series?: This is a Zero-Context Example and disputes over whether the sequels are good or bad would go under Contested Sequel if it was given more context. Cut.
• Every single major character in the series and Ashfur: Again, this example lacks context and it would go under Base-Breaking Character if given more context. Cut.
• Shippings: Again, lacks context and would go under Ship-to-Ship Combat if given more context. Cut.
• Film: This is over something hypothetical, which I'm not sure Broken Base can cover or not. I'm leaning cut.
• How to draw the characters: This seems like a valid example, but I'm not familiar with the fandom so I don't know how major of a conflict it is. Leaning keep.
• Mapleshade's Vengence: Seems like a valid example. Keep.
• A Vision of Shadows: This has to do with the work's overall reception, so this should be moved to Contested Sequel.
• Cash-Cow Franchise: This is a Zero-Context Example. Cut.

Edited by ADrago on Jan 5th 2019 at 5:12:50 AM

So it's been 2 weeks, any chance I could get a response regarding the example I brought up above? x9.

The Broken Base entry on A Court of Thorns and Roses just looks like a huge mess to me; too much indentation, some look like they aren't "broken" enough ("a bit of disagreement"? "a little divisive"?), and some look biased (I'm seeing a good amount of anti-Rhys sentiment in the third entry, or claiming Nesta's sisters talk shit about her when they express concern about her self-destructive behavior) or just seem like complaining. Anyone got any thoughts?

• Broken Base:
  • There’s a bit of disagreement on whether or not Tamlin was always controlling of Feyre. Some argue that Tamlin was perfectly willing to let Feyre do as she pleased in the first book and that the events of said book screwed him up mentally. Others say that he was always controlling, we just didn't see it because we were viewing him through Feyre's eyes, and Under the Mountain just made it worse.
  • There are many readers who are glad that Tamlin has received his comeuppance in A Court of Frost and Starlight. However, there are many others who believe Sarah J. Maas has gone to extreme lengths to punish Tamlin for what he has done, making Rhysand's gloating of his current state come across as unnecessarily cruel.
    • Likewise, some are resentful of Tamlin’s treatment in the overall Love Triangle and how we, the reader, can excuse Rhysand’s actions towards Feyre in A Court of Thorns and Roses. Keep in mind, in that book Rhysand took invaded Feyre’s mind, gave her every reason to think he would shatter it, regularly drugged, molested, and humiliated her while they were Under the Mountain, and grabbed her broken arm when she initially refused his bargain. However, come A Court of Mist and Fury onward, Rhys is treated as the paragon of goodness whose previous actions are Easily Forgiven by Feyre. While Tamlin’s are never forgotten in-universe. These readers do not condone Tamlin’s behavior, but understand what’s happening to him and would like for him to get help. Basically, these readers tend to ask, "if Rhysand gets a redemption, why can’t Tamlin?"
  • The book's treatment of PTSD has been a little divisive. There are those who find it a good description and commend that Feyre just gets better not "over it". However, there are those to see it as an excuse to provide Ship Tease for Feyre and Rhys. Point out that the books never go into Rhys’ sexual trauma too deeply. And when Mor is triggered Rhysand scolds her for making a bit deal about it. A Court of Frost and Starlight and the preview in it only adds more fuel to the fire with Nesta. It’s clear that she’s going through something, however her sisters talk shit about her behind her back and Feyre sends her to a war camp as punishment. Because that couldn’t possibly make it worse, could it? So apparently, your trauma is only valid if your names are Feyre or Rhysand.
  • The concept of the mating bond has been criticized as being rather heteronormative. Particularly how the woman... female accepts it by offering the male food, which has been criticized for sticking to gender norms. And as of now, there’s been nothing about same-sex mates. And then there’s how the man...male reacts until the bond is accepted. Possessive, wild, predatorily. It has a very "boys will be boys" mentality and tends to come off as a bit… rapey.
  • Mor’s sexuality opens several cans of worms. Particularly when she’s introduced, she seemed perfectly okay sleeping with men and that she would have been paired with Azriel. However come the following book not only is Mor bisexual, she usually prefers the company of women and had a female lover once and most of the men she sleeps with is to get Aziel to take a hint.
    • There’s a disagreement amongst fans and critics about whether or not Mor is bisexual or lesbian. In the third book, she tells Feyre that she had enjoyed sleeping with men, but overall prefers females, however in the same book when she does sleep with a man she looks miserable the morning after. By that fact alone some would say Mor’s a lesbian, however, others would argue that bisexuality is not 50/50 and it depends on the person’s preference.
    • And then there’s Mor’s coming out to Feyre. There are some who find it a well-done scene and a good incite to Mor’s character. However, it’s also dampened by Feyre’s previous behavior. Until then Feyre was basically rooting for Mor/Azriel to the point where Rhys flat out tells Feyre that it's none of her business. It’s a little hard not to see Feyre as forcing Mor to come out because Feyre’s ship wasn’t happening.

Not familiar with this work, but here's my opinion:

• Tamlin controlling Feyre: Like you said, it's "a bit" of a disagreement. It does sound quite weak. Probably cut.
• Tamlin's comeuppance: Don't know.
  • This bullet point violates Example Indentation and sounds like one-sided complaining. Probably cut.
• PTSD: Also like you said, it's "a little" divisive, meaning "not very". It also describes the "against" side in a lot more detail, giving only one short sentence to the "for" side, indicating a probable bias. Easy cut
• Mating bond: This is pure, one-sided complaining, not even acknowledging that some people might be in favor of it. Easy cut.
• Mor's sexuality: Don't know.

So it's been 2 weeks and 3 days, any chance I could get a response regarding the example I brought up above? x12.