The Scrappy Cleanup

I was the one who originally brought up Geeta's entry in this thread, and I maintain that I have not seen any evidence that Geeta is actually hated by the majority of the fanbase, especially in the game's home country of Japan.

I still associate her with her unsettling character design more than anything. I otherwise don't think about her at all, positive or negative, but maybe that's just me. She just feels like such a non-entity in my brain, practically leaving no real impact one way or another. Maybe that's just because every other character is so cool and memorable?

Edited by WarJay77 on Jan 12th 2024 at 4:26:30 AM

Everyone I know calls her a creepy-looking Jerkass (mostly for being mean to Larry and having no one except Nemona like her in-universe). She's also a Memetic Loser within the fandom with how weak her team is.

Edited by PhiSat on Jan 12th 2024 at 2:29:12 AM

I mean, if people genuinely hate her then don't let my opinion stop you. I just find it hard to muster up any emotions for her at all, so I can't really say one way or another if the example is valid.

We'd also need to see if the vast majority of the Japanese fanbase hates Geeta. From what I've seen from Japanese fans putting out fanwork, Geeta doesn't seem to be disliked.

I'm going through the comments on a few Japanese videos to see what Geeta's reception is like with that side of the fanbase.

The autotranslations are dodgy, but so far a number of people seem to share a lot of the negative sentiments - both things unrelated to her as a character like cracking jokes about being the worst Champion or expressing discomfort over her design, criteria-relevant comments about how uninteresting her personality is or mentioning the Gym Leaders who voice their disdain for her when you rematch them, and ones who are simply apathetic about her.

And of course, there's the people who don't like her because they sympathise with Larry.

There's several people who say they're fans of Geeta (and a few that perceived romantic subtext between her and Larry or even ship them), but they're far outnumbered by the ones who say otherwise. In conjunction with the aforementioned fanart, I'm not sure if that's enough to dub her a Base-Breaking Character or call this a case of Americans Hate Tingle.

Since a character needs to be hated for narrative reasons to be a Scrappy, fans who dislike her for being a not-satisfactory boss fight do not count. And a Scrappy needs to be hated, so people who are apathetic towards the character don't count either.

Looking at the comments in the videos you linked, I'm not actually seeing all that much hatred towards the character at all. A lot of the more negative-sounding comments in the videos joking about her treatment of Larry also seem like they're being made in jest and not out of genuine hatred of the character.

Overall, I don't think those comments are solid enough proof that the vast majority of Japanese fans actually hate her, especially since I've seen Japanese videos where there are no shortage of commenters expressing appreciation for the character (such as this video of Geeta's battle theme). The Japanese site Pixiv also has quite a bit of fanart of the flattering sort.

My overall impression is that while Geeta may not be the most popular character in the game, but "not popular =/= hated" and she has enough fans that she probably isn't hated by the vast majority of the fanbase. We're probably seeing a case of "vocal minority is being very vocal."

Edited by dragonfire5000 on Jan 12th 2024 at 10:21:54 AM

I found this is the Danganronpa/Scrappy page.

Danganronpa Another

• Mitsuhiro Higa. He’s perverted, arrogant, and an otherwise very unlikable creep who murders a very likable character with little good reason. He also makes sexual advances towards fan favorite Akane, which is largely forgotten by the cast afterwards, including Akane herself. While he’s not the worst person in the cast morally, with characters like Kizuna and Utsuro trumping him in that regard, his utter lack of depth, especially in his Free Time Events, make him fail at either being likable or a Love to Hate character. While likely deliberately written to be one-dimensionally unlikable, he stands out as a sore thumb compared to the rest of the cast which have more complexity.

I did write this entry, but this is for a fangame. Someone moved this to the official Dangarnonpa Scrappy page, which I don't think is allowed? Aren't only official entrys in the franchise allowed in this subpage?

If it doesn't apply to the actual work, then yeah, it should be for the fanfic.

Edit: So where do we actually stand on Dodgeson? ~Nic Master Trope added him in but I don't recall us actually agreeing he fit. I'm worried it's another "it was on this wiki" thing.

Edited by WarJay77 on Jan 13th 2024 at 4:17:12 AM

I've noticed several questionable entries on the James Bond page, though since I'm only a casual and new fan of the franchise I'd like to discuss entries here before deleting, as maybe the characters are hated and these entries are just worded poorly:

Edited by Mariofan99 on Jan 16th 2024 at 9:19:34 AM

Any thoughts on what's safe to delete

I agree with all of your analysis:

• Sherriff Pepper I would call a Base-Breaking Character rather than a Scrappy; I feel his Golden Gun appearance by itself might count (a common complaint of this film is that he is shoehorned in to provide comic relief for an action scene that doesn't require it) but I think Live and Let Die balances out the criticism.
• Kristatos being a very understated villain doesn't make someone a Scrappy by itself. While he isn't making anyone's Top 10 Bond Villains list, I wouldn't say he's hated either.
• I feel a lot of the hate directed at Franz Oberhauser is specifically for the Bro-feld twist. I feel the dislike is more of the They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character kind than something inherent to his on-paper characterisation.

So cut them all? Or just the 3 you highlighted? Also has a concensus been reached if a character should remain on the list even after they’ve been rescued? As alongside Franz, Madeline is on the list for reasons I’d call accurate, but the entry also says she got rescued in No Time to Die

I think Pepper can stay with clarification that it specifically applies to his Golden Gun appearance, and same with Oberhauser and Spectre. The rest are either no context or covered better by other tropes (General Medrano for example is an intentional Hate Sink).

Where exactly was it decided that small groups can’t qualify? Frankly, I find that a ridiculous reason to remove the Monokubs, or any small group at all really; if they are all hated for the same reasons, why can’t they qualify? And just because a character is meant to be annoying, that doesn’t mean they aren’t a scrappy if the intentional annoyingness works too well; intentionally annoying is still annoying.

Yeah Kristatos can be removed. He isn't like a top ten bad guy or anything. But people don't actively think he sucks like say Greene.

For uh Obenhesuuer. The character itself is considred fine. It's the really not great twist people don't like

Considering it's literally a restriction on the main trope page... it's not really up for debate here.

Can I ask a question. I was wonder if a character is Scrappy if audience hates them for something they have done, despite they’re otherwise good characters and the fact they’re realized their mistake and want to fix it willing

That sounds more like Never Live It Down.

Not sure where/when the no groups rule came to be. But for groups too large to judge each individually it's possible for individuals to vary too much in popularity to generalize them as such.

And "meant to be hated, but too effective" doesn't count as Scrappy requires they be hated for objectively different reasons than intended (otherwise "too" is too subjective even for YMMV). If "too" is the result of something unintended (like not getting satisfying karma) then they're valid.

AV Club:

• Rescued from the Scrappy Heap: Ignatiy Vishnevetsky, largely through his championing of underappreciated working directors like James Grey and Alex Ross Perry.
• The Scrappy: Newer writers are prone to getting guff for one reason or another:
  • A.A. Dowd occasionally gets flack for his overly serious demeanor and Commander Contrarian nature.
  • Ignatiy Vishnevetsky is occasionally lumped into this, largely through his Purple Prose-filled Signature Style and his overly caustic reviews.
  • Katie Rife and William Hughes also get criticism largely due to their repetitive styles, weak attempts at sarcasm and Soapbox Sadie approaches towards their Newswire articles.
  • Oliver Sava, the site's regular reviewer for Marvel Cinematic Universe and Arrowverse properties, has racked up quite a bit of disdain for his constantly harping on the same subjects long after he's made his point, most infamously the uninspired visuals of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.. He's also come under fire for his incredibly broad definition of what constitutes a character being Stuffed into the Fridge, including the likes of a woman being sidelined (even temporarily) by an injury, until many think he won't be happy until every single female character ever written is a God-Mode Sue (He's also disliked for inserting ham-fisted politics into his reviews).
  • Clayton Purdom, for his Hipster demeanor, increasingly clickbaity run as editor of "Great Job Internet!" and his "Stop Having Fun" Guys demeanor.

These are all real people.

While those examples should be cut, should we even have a YMMV page for the non-fiction AV Club?

Some YMMV tropes can apply to real situations but the page desperately needs cleaning.

On this page, Anime's version of Najenda is listed as Scrappy for being a wasted character like her anime counterpart, yet her manga counterpart is not The Scrappy. Should she cut her then? If no then explain properly why she's Scrappy in the anime but not in the manga, since I don't exactly understand the reason she's listed as one on the YMMV page

That sounds like she belongs under They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character rather than The Scrappy. Also what does the Japanese fanbase think of this character?

Edited by Superdude96 on Jan 29th 2024 at 9:18:13 AM