Is this an example?

Can a big lance count for BFS?

Edited by Crossover-Enthusiast on Sep 18th 2019 at 1:13:18 PM

Yeah. Right from the article:

This trope includes any type of improbably large ("anime-sized") melee weapon. After the aforementioned big-ass sword, gigantic lances tend to be the most common. However, humongous hammers and titanic axes also appear from time to time, most commonly in the hands of The Big Guy (or, just for the absurdity of it all, a little girl).

Lotsa existing examples such as on Image Links show non-Sword variants too.

Huh. Guess I missed that while reading through the description.

Hi. I was directed here to ask a question about one of my favorite games and whether or not it qualifies as Camp. The game is Read to Rights.

I was told by user 𝕋𝕒𝕓𝕤 that I should ask that question here and I should provide examples to that effect.

Another user, CryptidProductions, remembers the game to be campy in a trashy, low budget action sort of way but whether that was intentional or not is debatable.

This...has made things so much harder for me.

Not only am I going to have to remember specifics, but I've read a number of interviews from Andre Emerson, the guy who produced and co-wrote the game, along with Flint Dille, who was the other writer, that they were one-hundred percent sincere in what they were doing in making Dead to Rights - a game that took elements from the works of Mickey Spillane and Frank Miller and film noir combined with Hong Kong action movies like the ones by John Woo.

This interview Flint Dille did with Knowing is Half the Podcast[1] (at 13:12, specifically) does he do some explaining, but one of the interviewers was very enthused about Dead to Rights because it reminded him of an 80s Action Movie starring Kurt Russell. I think this may have hurt Mr. Dille a little.

(I have pictures from scans of the Dead to Rights strategy guide of an interview Andre Emerson did along with a pic from Flint Dille's book in which he mentioned their working on Dead to Rights. I'd link them here but I feel like I'd be using image space for nothing and getting into trouble for it.)

I've read article after article, book after book on the camp aesthetic. I've read Susan Sontag's Notes on Camp more times than I can remember. I could right a thesis on how Dead to Rights isn't "campy" but pure camp. In fact, I have (sort of) for The Avocado, however no one really cares. I try to write anything about the camp aesthetic there, as well, and I get the same old regurgitated Simpsons quote every time: "The Ludicrously Tragic? The Tragically Ludicrous? Oh, I get it. Like when a clown dies." And I want to put my fist through a wall every time because that is such a reductionist view of it.

Also, one of the things about Susan Sontag is something the character Crash Davis says in Bull Durham, that he views her writings as 'self-indulgent, overrated crap'. Indeed, one can see it that way. But does that invalidate her view as camp as "love of the unnatural: of artifice and exaggeration"? Because that's how I see Dead to Rights - an exaggerated take on Hong Kong Action Movies and Frank Miller and film noir through the artifice of a video game where you shoot things. I noticed that for a game that's supposed to be so dark and serious, the color scheme is very vibrant. The characters are very comic book looking but not in Frank Miller's style. Rather they are colorful.

The unnatural love comes from my end. I'm not ashamed to say this, the dark, brooding "cop on the edge" Jack Slate doesn't really look like any of the characters you'd see in a film noir: he's basically Brandon Lee with blue eyes and that's what drew me to Dead to Rights in the first place. I thought he was really cute and I still do. Also, I find the game to be delightful. Not the cutting "Nyah ha ha, how stupid" as much Internet humor can be, but the "Oh, ho ho, this is delightful" sensation of humor that can often come from camp.

(There have been some books and articles I've read on camp, it's ties to homosexuality, and the homoeroticism in action movies, but I'm refraining from that for Dead to Rights as it would mostly be me seeing things that aren't there or weren't intended and that might get me into trouble. Unless some of you wish for me to explain what I mean.)

By the way, I'm speaking of the first game and not the prequelsequel or Dead to Rights: Retribution.

Lastly, there's me try to post the example in the first place as I can't get a handle on how things things are linked here as so much of it goes over my head.

So this is my conundrum so far. Anyone wish to help me on this?

I'm not sure this counts as Throw the Dog a Bone.

Characters.Pokemon Generation I Geodude To Blissey (Farfetch'd line folder):

• Throw the Dog a Bone:
  • Pokémon X and Y took its Pig in a Poke gimmick and turned it on its head — in that game, being traded a Farfetch'd is an extremely lucky occurrence, as you're basically being handed a Pokémon that can sweep the first gym with minimal effort.
  • Gen VII increased its base attack from a paltry 65 to a respectable 90. It's probably not going to be sweeping any teams, and its other stats are still well below average, but it can finally put its decent movepool and Critical Hit Class tendencies to some use.
  • Gen VIII threw Farfetch'd not just a bone, but the whole spine in the form of a new evolution, Sirfetch'd.

Do we need to make a reference to Main Character here? Especially since it's just a redirect to The Protagonist?

WesternAnimation.Huntik Secrets And Seekers

Edited by Malady on Sep 19th 2019 at 4:12:53 AM

Is Amy from Sonic the Hedgehog a Canon Immigrant? She was created by a game dev but was first introduced in a manga.

Edited by Pichu-kun on Sep 19th 2019 at 6:02:24 AM

Sonic is a game first so i don't think there's any immigration.

I thought she was first introduced in Sonic CD?

She did.

Amy debuted in a manga, but she was created by the development team of Sonic CD. The manga was just released first, because a manga is quicker to make than a video game is.

I found this in YMMV.Sex And The City.

Americans Hate Tingle: This American-made series was considered to be very daring and groundbreaking for addressing issues of sex and relationships that other shows hadn't discussed before, especially from a female standpoint. Other viewers in the US watched it because they felt it was hot and saucy. In Europe the show was appreciated more for its comedy and camp value, because the fact that the main cast always have sex without removing their bras or with sheets covering up their genitals still comes across as very prudish for a show with the word sex in the title.

The way its written, Europe doesn't seem to hate the series.

• Broken Base:
  • Fans of the books, smaller in number as they are, tend to look down on fans of the 1939 film, especially if the particular movie fan makes it very obvious they've never picked up an Oz book in their lives, if they even know that they exist. Most Oz book fans like the movie well enough, and the overwhelming majority likely saw the movie first before reading the books, but get irritated over how the film has overshadowed the books and forced them into Mainstream Obscurity, and how every subsequent Oz adaptation has to be based on the movie or risk becoming a box office bomb like Return to Oz. Likewise, fans of the movie might view the book fans as snobbish.
  • Even within fans of the books, opinions vary on any of the Oz books published after L. Frank Baum's death, and whether they should be considered canon or not.
  • Wicked is likewise very divisive among Oz fans; purists hate it, but some are open-minded enough to accept it are open-minded enough to accept it as a non-canon alternate interpretation. Most Dystopian Oz adaptations are divisive among fans, but to a lesser degree than Wicked due to its popularity.

What do these go under? They're not Broken Base.

@WhirlRX: Yeah, I'd remove that from Americans Hate Tingle for sure, it's not described as hate at all. I think that description makes it a clean fit for Values Dissonance instead.

@Malady: I don't think it's needed, but it doesn't hurt either right now? I'd lean towards removing it if you're unsure, since this is found on a page that already describes who the main characters are at the top. And the fact that they're main characters is irrelevant to the trope, Establishing Character Moment, and mentioning it at the start restricts any future non-MC additions.

~bmoore4026

If you have an argument that this is an example of Camp], then feel free to add it to the page, with an explanation of how the trope applies. No one's argued against it.

Whether the writers intended camp or no is irrelevant. Tropes are objective, and we can't read creators' minds.

Edited by Tabs on Sep 20th 2019 at 8:32:57 AM

Could I get some more opinions on my question here? One troper mentioned that the entries should be cut, but I'd like to hear a few more opinion before I go ahead with it.

Yeah you need to at least appear in the work in order to be a wasted character so cut it.

Got it. Anyone else have any input before I go ahead with cutting?

Speaking of Fire Emblem: Three Houses, I have a question about this entry from Fire Emblem: Three Houses - Main Protagonists:

• I Have Boobs, You Must Obey!: Female Byleth can do this to instantly recruit Sylvain, although that says a lot more about Sylvain than it does about Byleth.

Is it an example if the female character doesn't actually flaunt her body to get her way? In the game, Sylvain will ask to join the team automatically if the protagonist is female, but nothing in the text suggests that the protagonist is intentionally using her sexuality to get him to join.

"Can do this". Can do what? It's a ZCE.

- Use her boobs to seduce him onto the team, pretty clear from the trope name, no?

It's like, Long List. Context about what the list is for, would be good, but its length shouldn't be in question.

Edited by Malady on Sep 20th 2019 at 2:21:14 AM

My concern is that the character in question isn't consciously or deliberately using her sexuality to get the guy to do something.

ZCE rules include a stipulation that it should be possible to tell from the way the example is written what the trope is about, even if you've never encountered it before.

I'd remove that dragonfire5000. I've seen that scene before and, as even that example admits, it says more about Sylvain than Byleth. She doesn't do anything except ask him to join the class (like she does for everyone else).

I'm not sure if that incident even stands alone as any trope. It's just an aspect of his personality that can be mentioned in his description or in another trope's description.

Edited by Darkaros on Sep 20th 2019 at 4:19:33 AM

Alliterative Name allows for visual.alliteration only, right?

'Cause of this removal of Sunset Shimmer:

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Fanfic.OversaturatedWorld

Edited by Malady on Sep 20th 2019 at 5:02:35 AM

The S/Sh is really only a half alliteration by itself, but combined with the double S in Sunset I feel like it should count.