Is this an example?

Bi The Way doesn't mean "character is bisexual", it means "character is bisexual and it's not a big deal". Hence the pun on "by the way".

Never got impression. I thought it was just this person identify as bisexual to avoid No Bisexuals.

Edited by WhirlRX on Aug 27th 2018 at 6:14:48 AM

• They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character: Two words: Assist Trophies. To put it bluntly, characters who are Assist Trophies cannot be playable in-game. Fan-favorite requests who have been relegated to non-playable character status include:
  • Waluigi (infamous for being non-playable for three games in a row, despite being a really popular request)
  • Midna
  • Ghirahim
  • Krystal
  • Ashley (WarioWare's resident Ensemble Dark Horse)
  • Bomberman (one of the most popular third-party requests)
  • Zero
  • Alucard
  • Shovel Knight (another popular third-party request)
  • Subverted for Little Mac and Dark Samus, who were introduced as Assist Trophies but then became playable fighters in a later installment, thus there's still a possibility for this to happen for other characters.

Barring this being a complete Zero-Context Example, do Assist Trophies really count as wasted characters?

I say no, and that entry mostly sounds like a person having an axe to grind. Cut it.

From Spyro Reignited Trilogy, is this an example of Society Marches On?

• Society Marches On: Elora's memetic line "I'm a faun, you dork." is a lot more playful, which makes sense given how "dork" is a much more endearing term in the late 2010's than it was at the turn of the century (See Adorkable for instance.)

Don't think it is based on what I understand of the trope. The trope from what I can gather is about attitudes and etc. in a work that were signs of the times they were created in. Example: The attitudes towards women drivers in The Jetsons.

Elora's line being delivered in more playful tone in the Video Game Remake doesn't seem to fit the trope.

Would like to have a second opinion before doing anything though.

Found these regarding Alita: Battle Angel:

• Race Lift: An accusation immediately leveled at the movie when Rosa Salazar was announced as the lead, though it's misguided, as nowhere in the original was Alita/Gally ever stated to be Asian — she is after all a Martian, with the Mars in that universe being settled mostly by ethnic Germans. (Even when Alita's real name is disclosed in "Last Order" to be Yoko, it has the very Germanic last name of Dornburg, and she was even able to use the false name of "Yoko von der Rasierklinge" with ease). Daisuke Ido has become Dyson Ido for some reason, though he remained a blonde, Germanic type^note Played by the freaking Christoph Waltz, of all people like in the original.

Race Lift is supposed to be an objective trope, but the example here seems to be written more like an audience reaction, and also seems to be arguing against it self by saying it's actually not an example.

From NeverLiveItDown.Film:

• Alita: Battle Angel might end up becoming the first American-made manga-based live-action movie to be good, but it will never escape the fact that they gave Alita "anime eyes".

And this seems to be Speculative Troping considering the film won't be released yet for a few months. Also reading the workpage description isn't Never Live It Down supposed to apply to characters from works, not the works themselves?

I agree with both of your concerns about those examples.

I also agree that the example is very weak.

For Talking the Monster to Death, Dungeons & Dragons introduced in 5e the spell vicious mockery, described as a string of insults laced with enchantments, essentially insulting the monster so hard it takes damage.

Would this count or am I taking Talking the Monster to Death too literally?

No, that doesn't fit the spirit of the trope.

From YMMV.Cloverfield:

I can't even figure out what this entry is trying to say, it jumps all over the place. I have no idea how any of this is supposed to make the monster sympathetic.

From Dark Horse Victory:

• In 1824, four Demcratic-Republican candidates were running for U.S. president: John Quincy Adams, Andrew Jackson, Henry Clay, and William H. Crawford, who was suffering the ill effects of a stroke, but his name was still on the ballot. Even though Jackson had the most popular votes, his 99 electoral votes (against Adams' 84, Crawford's 41, and Clay's 37) were only 37.9% of the electoral votes and a candidate would need at least more than half of the electoral votes (130 out of 261) to win the presidency. As a result, it was up to the House of Representatives to determine the winner, with House Speaker Clay who after meeting with Adams, made use of his influential skills in the House balloting to help defeat Jackson, with Adams being selected as president and Clay was named Adams' Secretary of State.

Adams doesn't seem to count as a Dark Horse as he was a prominent politician and probably had more support than Clay. Indeed, in the election, each candidate had strength in different regions, so none can really be considered dark horses.

For the Meat-O-Vision page:

• The Powerpuff Girls: In "Candy is Dandy", the Girls develop an addiction for The Mayor's candy and are so desperate for more that they started seeing everything around them as candy: Bubbles sees the circles in her drawings as candy, Buttercup sees the trees outside their house as candy and Blossom sees her own head in the mirror as a giant piece of candy

Edited by Nadim on Aug 29th 2018 at 10:17:20 AM

What do you think is wrong with that example, or are you asking if it's correct? As written, it looks valid.

That example makes no sense; delete.

Yeah, I can't see how it establishes sympathy either.

Edited by Fighteer on Aug 29th 2018 at 2:29:12 PM

I would wager, barring anything to the contrary, the perceived issue with is that it isn't Meat-o-vision.

Meat-O-Vision says specifically that it isn't just about meat.

I know. Hence "perceived issue".

Found this on Xenoblade Chronicles 2: "While it was settled amicably in game, much like Shulk/Melia in the first Xenoblade at least some fans would have preferred if the final canon couple was Rex/Nia since they too were interacting with each other since the start of the game and visually are much closer in age than Pyra or Mythra. In the New Game+ title screen, Nia jumps in to hold hands with Rex (or push Rex out of the way to hold hands with Pyra and Mythra), edging this ship closer to canon, albeit with Nia as an addition to the canon romance rather than an alternative."

I believe the rules for Fan-Preferred Couple read "No listing pairings that are less popular than rival pairings. Yes, this means it's not a Fan-Preferred Couple if the Official Couple is more fan-preferred than it." and "at least some fans" doesn't sound like it's enough.

May I have permission to cut this?

Go ahead and cut it since the wording of the entry makes it seem like the Official Couple is more popular.

This was on Xenoblade: Shulk and Melia. While the ultimate canon pairing of Shulk/Fiora-when-she-comes-back is generally accepted, a lot of people think Shulk & Melia ultimately had more chemistry and was more touching. Certain scenes in the game do not help. And it also doesn't help that Melia basically ends up alone compared to Shulk and Fiora. Though Melia doesn't seem to mind it much, that just comes off as the writers clumsily Cleaning Up Romantic Loose Ends.

• Melia/Dunban also has a sizeable following due to the two having great rapport in their Heart-to-Hearts, being seen as the most mature members of the party and thus having a lot of compatibility, and the fact that the two of them aren't taken at the end of the game.

The first one sounds more like Ship-to-Ship Combat to me, should it be cut with a portion of it being transferred to the existing STS entry?

Also, does it sound like the second entry can stay?

Edited by MasterJoseph on Aug 29th 2018 at 2:28:01 AM

The first one is Ship-to-Ship Combat because both Shulk/Melia and Shulk/Fiora have a lot of supporters from what I've seen. Though I'm not sure if Dunban/Melia counts since neither of them are part of an Official Couple.

I've seen someone complain about this on another site.

From Arthur's YMMV page:

• Unintentionally Sympathetic: Arthur in "Arthur's Big Hit", when he hits DW after she breaks his model airplane. We're supposed to see it as a Kick the Dog moment, but the thing is, he's not an aggressive person at the best of times, and he only hit DW because he had told her numerous times not to touch his model and she deliberately disobeyed him, many times, including getting paint on her hands and blaming Arthur for it. Add in the fact that she not only fails to apologize for her actions, she tries to blame Arthur for it (saying that if he'd built a model airplane correctly, it wouldn't have crashed when she launched it out the window), and the hit becomes justified.

Hitting a four year old is justified how...?

If I recall correctly she threw it out the window.

While his parents did say that hitting her was not okay, treating Arthur being hit by someone else later as justified makes them hypocrites.

To be more specific as taken from the Broken Aesop page for W Estern Animation: "The episode "Arthur's Big Hit", where Arthur hits D.W. when she breaks his model airplane. She runs crying to their parents, and the rest of the episode is spent rubbing Arthur's nose in it, with the intended message of "violence is never the answer". There are a couple of problems with this:

• Arthur learns his lesson when Binky hits him, and his parents treat Binky hitting Arthur as suitable punishment for Arthur hitting his sister, so it's apparently okay to hit someone to teach them why hitting is wrong. On top of this, Binky hits Arthur to impress his Jerk Ass friends and it has nothing to do with punishing Arthur, but Arthur hit D.W. as a direct consequence of her behavior.
• D.W. never actually learns anything. She finishes the episode still blaming Arthur for building a model airplane that couldn't fly, indicating that she still has no idea what she did wrong, but she apologizes anyway. Thing is, she only apologizes because Arthur hit her, so violence actually was the answer."

While Arthur hitting D.W. might of gone too far, she was acting extra annoying to Arthur. He also told her not to touch his model airplane but she still did. And after breaking it she doesn't apologize for it and starts blaming Arthur for the fact it didn't fly and break.

And she's still a child, and Arthur still hit her.

- That's sorta irrelevant by this point? If the message is "Violence is not the answer", then violence can never be shown to achieve a goal, else the Aesop is undermined.

Edited by Malady on Aug 29th 2018 at 8:42:24 AM