Five-Man Band cleanup

Cleaned out the A and B namespaces. Hollering to update the pinned post to reflect progress.

I do have a quick question, though; I keep seeing things like this:

• The Leader: Alice is this of the Five-Man Band.

Should they be left alone, or should they be deleted?

An example like that should be deleted (or at least hidden) as it is a zero-context example. It doesn't say how Alice is a leader.

Yes, people think pointing out X character is the boss is the trope, but it's not. That's just ZCE at best and misuse at worst. The trope doesn't care who the leader is, it's about what kind of leader they are and why people follow them.

Edited by Wyldchyld on May 20th 2022 at 6:40:15 AM

Found another example to be re-wicked on the Winx Club Specialist page. What should we do?

The example in question:

• The Leader: Sky is the leader (hybrid of III/IV) and face of the group.
• The Lancer: Brandon is Sky’s right hand man and is both his sword and shield
• The Smart Guy: Timmy is physically the weakest but his lack of combat skill is made up for by his intelligence and he is the one Sky turns to when unsure of what to do
• The Big Guy: Riven functions as this as he is the most aggressive and acts as the tough guy in the group.
• The Chick: Helia is effeminate as he was originally meant to be a girl, is an introverted pacifist, has a feminine appearance, has no interest in sports instead pursuing typically feminine interests that allow him to express himself emotionally such as poetry/art and has an open emotional personality.

It needs sorting out. Put it on one bullet point and focus on the team's dynamic.

Can anyone tell me why the trope was cut from Characters.A Plague Tale Innocence for being a ZCE?

Let's look at the example as it was:

• Five-Man Band:
  • The Leader: Amicia is commands everyone while on the field, and generally is the one who comes up with missions.
  • The Lancer: Melie is the next in-line to Amicia.
  • The Smart Guy: Lucas is the apprentice of an alchemist and he's the one who creates solutions and teaches Amicia special ammunition.
  • The Big Guy: Rodrick is the most physically strong of the group, and he's can break down doors and directly attack soldiers.
  • The Heart: Hugo is the glue that holds the group together, and everything the group does revolves around his well-being.
  • Sixth Ranger: Arthur has the least characterization among the group, joins up the last and is the first to want to leave.

Minus the "subtropes" which aren't even part of Five-Man Band anymore, it's literally just the trope name with no other context. Additionally, all of those subtropes don't have enough context to stand on their own; they claim that Amicia takes charge and that Hugo is the emotional core, but don't point to anything in particular to back this up. Not to mention that they're already listed with more context elsewhere.

Edited by GoldenCityBird on May 22nd 2022 at 2:24:03 PM

Would this be a good re-wick for Winx Club Specialist?

• Five-Man Band: Sky is The Leader of the specialists (hybrid of III/IV) and face of the group. Brandon serves as Sky’s right hand man and is both his sword and shield. Timmy is physically the weakest but his lack of combat skill is made up for by his intelligence and he is the one Sky turns to when unsure of what to do. Riven functions as The Big Guy as he is the most aggressive and acts as the toughest of the group. Helia is effeminate as he was originally meant to be a girl, is an introverted pacifist, has a feminine appearance, has no interest in sports instead pursuing typically feminine interests that allow him to express himself emotionally such as poetry/art and has an open emotional personality.

As it stands, that's just a list of people. What are the Specialists? What purpose do they serve in the work?

I've decided to comment it out because I don't know how to fix it.

So I'm cleaning up Champions Online (which has a whole host of issues) and it has this very long (very wrong) Five-Man Band Entry, which I have put into a folder for length. Hoping I can just axe this list?

Oh, classic, it even has the shoehorned in Five Bad Band examples because people really used to think the best thing to do with that mess was to just pretend it counts as Five-Man Band instead.

I might be biased but I say to just burn it all.

The final three could be rewritten if all the members work together as a team (and if Hammer and Sickle refers to just one person), but none of the others could.

Found this when doing wick cleaning for Vendor Trash. It's currently commented out.

From VideoGame.Gothic:

• Five-Man Band: The Nameless Hero and his four major friends from the Colony have this dynamic. Gothic is not a party RPG, so they only occasionally travel as a group, but they do consistently keep in touch and support one another and take turns adventuring with the Hero.
  • The Hero: The Nameless Hero (duh)
  • The Lancer: Diego (weathered and serious, contrasting the hero's more snarky and brash personality, and both a cunning planner and a great fighter)
  • The Smart Guy: Milton (a Fire Mage, well-versed in more esoterical knowledge)
  • The Big Guy: Gorn (a bulky mercenary with a huge axe)
  • The Heart: Lester (the resident Nice Guy who has no particularly specialized skillset (he seems to be something of a low-key Magic Knight) and likes to just chill out and smoke swamp-weed)

Edited by Berrenta on May 23rd 2022 at 9:25:39 AM

"only occasionally travel as a group" seems to be a point against them, but I'm unfamiliar with the work and cannot provide more input. Doesn't seem like the roles have enough context to move, either.

Checked the character sheet, and the five roles seem better discussed over there.

I would like your opinion on the example in Magia Record because the one who deleted the example keep insisting that the team has to be five even though it's already explained that the sixth member is a later addition.

• Five-Man Band: Each member is fitted to one of these archetypes:
  • The Leader: Iroha, also being The Heart.
  • The Lancer: Yachiyo,
  • The Smart Guy: Tsuruno, although she may not look like that at first.
  • The Big Guy: Felicia, due to her Attack! Attack! Attack! way of fighting.
  • The Chick: Sana, who usually support the group.
  • Sixth Ranger: Ui, as later on she joins Iroha's team after the events of Arc 1 and goes to live with her at Mikazuki Villa.

While I think that the example need some additional context, I still think the example still valid, and deleting the entire entry just because there's a sixth member (that the context of her addition is already explained in that entry) is incorrect.

Thing is, even in our new version of Five-Man Band (that is, the role format is depreciated and now any five-person team qualifies), the team still has to be five members. The Sixth Ranger has never actually been considered a valid addition to examples, and teams do have to be five members to qualify. Otherwise, just call them The Team.

Not to mention that's also incorrectly formatted and a massive ZCE (How do they work as a team? How does every member fit their roles? Etc), so a cut was warranted anyway.

Edited by WarJay77 on Jun 2nd 2022 at 4:05:17 AM

Yeah, the team has to be five members. If it is a valid example, then it's the version of the team before the sixth member joins.

The thing is, this kind of thing isn't static, given the series the team appear in is still ongoing. The team in Magia Record was five people for two years, and the Sixth Ranger joined after what is essentially the third season. It's basically like when the OG Sixth Ranger join the Power Rangers, but the officially-joining moment is even longer. There's even a sidestory telling about how the Sixth Ranger interrupts the established group dynamic that already been solidified by the story for 2 years.

Is the established dynamic that have years to go on from, that still somewhat exist even after there's an addition in the team, suddenly not valid just because the sixth member joins the team? Or the example would just pretend that she doesn't exist for it to be valid?

Edited by AlaAlba on Jun 2nd 2022 at 8:23:14 PM

Just list it as The Team. Five-Man Band is a trope in aggregate about five-person teams. The literal only criteria is to be a five-person team. There's absolutely no reason to try and fit a six person team into it.

Then why the excerpt about the Sixth Ranger even exist there? To wit;

From the way the description goes, the Five-Man Band still valid if the sixth member is a very later addition. Is two years even "close from the start" for the dynamic to start "invalid"?

Edited by AlaAlba on Jun 2nd 2022 at 8:58:42 PM

Just try to write it as a normal five-man band example. Mention the timespan the team is together for, how they work together, and keep everything on one bullet point (as per Example Indentation in Trope Lists).

I'm not saying the early dynamic is invalid, but if you want that sixth member added then it really should just be The Team.

Now, granted, I do think that part is poorly worded (it shouldn't necessarily matter if the sixth member was there for years or not), but the point is that teams with more than 5 members don't count, and the ranger can't be added if you use FMB.

Edited by WarJay77 on Jun 2nd 2022 at 1:30:30 PM