What's Happening

Troperville

Tools

collapse/expand topics back to Main/StopHavingFunGuys

Master_Prichter
topic
03:56:16 PM Apr 23rd 2012
I think the punctuation here has been misapplied. It sounds more logical for it to be "Stop having fun, guys!", seeing as the trope namer was that XKCD strip with the one guy complaining at the 4 guys for enjoying Guitar Hero.
johnnye
02:07:46 PM Jan 15th 2013
edited by johnnye
Agree. Certainly it should either be Stop Having Fun, Guys! OR "Stop Having Fun" Guy (singular), as in "that guy is a "Stop Having Fun" Guy". The latter seems to be how it's been parsed for the punctuation it's got (it's mentioned as such in the text), but in that case there's no reason for it to be plural (we don't have a page called Munchkins, and Scrubs is something else entirely).
Larkmarn
06:55:34 AM Mar 22nd 2013
Yeah the punctuation is just terrible. Doesn't make a lick of sense.
MadMan400096
topic
04:40:58 PM Apr 7th 2012
Why doesn't this page doesn't have an actual trope to list in-universe examples? It seems like it'd be a valid trope in-universe. We'd just have a "No Real Life Examples, Please!" disclaimer.

Wait, is there an in-universe trope for this?
Steven
06:47:49 AM Apr 28th 2012
I think the trope is too rare to have any in universe examples. I can't recall anything that uses this trope besides real life.
Connorses
03:26:04 PM Feb 5th 2013
In the webcoming "Better Days" there's a character who is so competitive and good at everything that she pisses everyone off... I guess that doesn't quite fit though, where should I put it??
MetalSmasher86
04:55:31 PM Apr 7th 2014
Otto becomes one of these guys in one episode of Rocket Power when he tries to go pro just after his 11th birthday.
PowerRager
topic
02:11:37 PM Mar 3rd 2012
edited by PowerRager
I wonder what place SHFG's having in this movement (though it only seems to be in certain game community's, mostly those with a high population of SHFG's) of wanting to outright segregate the gaming body of the game in question.

Awhile back, i recall such a movement in the Modern Warfare 2 playerbase that called for (really, more like demanded as if they represent the majority of the players) the developer to impose a "All-Pro" system over the online multiplayer mode's. It pretty much would have entailed stopping anyone who's kill to death ratio was below a certain number (and it really varyed from player to player what that should be, from 0.7 all the way to 3.0) from playing online at all, totally locking them out.

One quote i recalled from someone supporting this was: "We only demand that we should only be able to play against those who have shown themselves to be of superior skill and mind such as ourselves. Beasting against the scrub's in random games get's boring since they really don't know their place and they really don't do anything correctly other than feed us effortless kill's over and over again. This new system would see them staying where they belong, circle-jerking with heir scrub friends offline over what's cheap while we, the true and rightful owners of (MW 2) compete amongst the best of the best in true, glorious combat with pride and honor on the line."

Now that struck me as someone who doesn't play well with others (since you can play against nothing but "the best" if you stick to clan-matches, but they seemed to prefer playing against random's and just ignoring any kind of teamwork), as well as someone who likely played Objective mode's and just camped them for easy kill's rather than try to win the match for the team by capturing/destroying/protecting it and scoring a ton of non-kill points (that would help their overall leader-board position).

But that might have just come down to that individual user, as i've seen a wide array of opinions, even with those who support it. From people who just want their own playlist with a lower K/D cap on how can access it to people like the above that want to lock any non-"Pro's" out of the game and require a "Skill test" to gain access to the online modes.

When does someone cross the line from being Elitist, but still senseable to full on raving SHFG?

MetalSmasher86
02:49:14 PM Feb 28th 2013
edited by MetalSmasher86
That has got to be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard in my life. Just because most players aren't as good as you, they should be locked out of online play completely? Whoever said that quote is a douche. That would be like if I were to lead a campaign to lock out players of Guitar Hero Warriors of Rock who don't play on Expert with an average multiplier of at least 4.0. It's just stupid.

I have a better solution for the Call of Duty issue anyway. Why not add Pro playlists that require a certain minimum K/D ratio of your own (i.e. Pro Team Deathmatch, Pro Free-For-All, Pro Search And Destroy, etc.) in addition to the regular ones and add in a search parameter to indicate the desired minimum K/D ratio of your opponents (from 1.0 to 5.0), and it will only find players with at least that minimum K/D? That way, everybody gets what they want. Scrubs can still play online and have fun with their game, and SHFG's can limit themselves to the Pro modes.
AirmanMatch
11:57:44 PM Mar 21st 2013
That would work, if only they would use that kind of setting. No, they would use it once or twice, realize that there are actual pro-level people out there and they're not quite at that point, and they'd be right back in vanilla, nursing their injured pride with even more nastiness than before.

With this sort of thing, the best way to go about it is like what Starcraft does. Give players a skill rating, and match them up with people as close as possible to that rating. The less control the individual has over the matchups, the less problems there will be.

As an example, take a look at League mode in Black Ops 2. It's there for those players who think they're pro to go with their 6-player hyper organized teams and it will put them up against others in the same boat. If they wanted a challenge, that's where they would be. But they go into vanilla matchups with a full team, all completely organized.

Why? Because it's fun to stomp people. You can talk smack, act like an ass when you win. Can't do that in League, where you end up losing to the guy who's just like you but bigger.

Personally, I love Mercenary mode. No teams whatsoever. Makes absolutely sure that there won't be a six player team of douchebags who know every possible spawn point and will kill you before you even move.
MSAdict
topic
02:27:50 AM Sep 17th 2011
I have a small, please don't kill me people who have been on this site longer than I and know more about the topic, question. Could this be, in theory be divided into; A: The person, say the Stop Having Fun Guy him/herself, someone who fits this page, since "Stop Having Fun" Guys sounds more like B: The mindset of a group of elite players (who may or may not be based on Gamefaqs) that think that there is one way to play the game, one way to use each character, and will bash anyone who disagrees with them?

I know the second one sounds a bit like the Scrub, but I think it can pertain to a fanbase or at least a significant portion of one. I think "Stop Having Fun" Guys is used a lot where the mindset is more prevalent.

I think the Scrub sounds more like a singularity, where a lot of times Scrubs can share a common way of thinking that almost evolves into Canon.
MugenKagemaru
03:25:32 AM Oct 31st 2011
edited by MugenKagemaru
What separates a Scrub and a "Stop Having Fun" Person into their respective camps is the style of gameplay they consider to be the way the game was made to be played.

On one hand, we have the Scrub, who devotes his/her entire being to the casual play style, and thinks that if you play as that one powerful character, or use those certain tricks or glitches, then you're just a filthy cheater who can't win on his own. Scrubs tend to force their own house rules down everyone else's throats, bashing those OP'd characters, the use of glitches, and the difficult tricks as Game Breakers.

On the other hand, we have the "Stop Having Fun" Person, who devotes his/her entire being to Tournament play, playing by Tournament rules and utilizing every trick in the book short of cheat codes and, Heaven forbid, characters with special advantages and such. Anyone who doesn't use (a) specific character(s) and/or use tricks and the like are either amateurs or retards with either no skill or not enough experience with the game.

Take Super Smash Bros., for instance. According to "Stop Having Fun" People, you have to (A) know how to Wavedash and L-Cancel, (B) be good with Fox, (C) be able to win without using items, and (D) have memorized what you can and cannot do on Final Destination, if you even want to CONSIDER picking up the game. According to Scrubs, Wavedashing and L-Cancelling is cheating, fighting without items means you're too scared of losing to someone that uses them, and Final Destination is boring and bland. Also, you have to play as a certain character, since everyone else is broken and unfair.

Kahran042
08:22:07 PM Sep 18th 2012
edited by Kahran042
The difference is that not all casual players are scrubs, but all hardcore players are "Stop Having Fun" guys.
SolidSnack
06:41:27 PM Jun 8th 2014
Kahran, that's absolutely not true.
AgentDragonhunter
topic
04:13:07 PM Jul 2nd 2011
I'd just like to point out that "Fan Haters" is a Red Link, but we can't fix it because the page is locked.
216.239.89.151
topic
11:46:00 AM Mar 27th 2011
I have to say I feel a little insulted by the innacuracy of this article. It makes no sense.

Individuals by nature avoid pain and boredom. Unless mentally warped, no individual will cause himself displeasure on purpose. A person who plays a game competitively will of course like this gameplays style. Some individuals are naturally talented at certain games, or they enjoy it so much that their skill will eventually outmatch their friends and the game will turn out boring because of the weaker matchups. The only real way to find a funchallenge then is to go to tournaments and find people, who like you, are very knowledgeable and involved in this game.

Most hardcore gamers will let the casuals do whatever the heck they want. However, they won't play with them because they don't like that play style. T Hose who now voice their oppinions more strongly now are those who are seeing their favourite games become casual despite these games being originally geared towards them. One can't blame a person for defending his interests.

Finally, the biggest elitists I find are the casual who constantly get on our case because we prefer to, for example, Wavedash and L-Cancel in Smash Bros. By telling us to stop doingthis, they are also telling us to stop having fun. Yes, there is a casual stop having fun movement.
DrStarky
02:32:23 PM Mar 28th 2011
What part of the article says that?
Scardoll
06:51:44 AM Apr 25th 2011
Finally, the biggest elitists I find are the casual who constantly get on our case because we prefer to, for example, Wavedash and L-Cancel in Smash Bros. By telling us to stop doing this, they are also telling us to stop having fun. Yes, there is a casual stop having fun movement.

That would fall under The Scrub. We already have that article.
Madcapunlimited
10:51:57 AM Apr 5th 2013
Whoever started this particular topic seems like they ARE this trope and are feeling defensive lol
originalhobbit
topic
05:04:02 PM Mar 5th 2011
I'm still not sure what the difference between a stop having fun guy and a scrub actually is. They seem like the exact same achetype to me.
nuclearneo577
05:50:53 PM Mar 5th 2011
A Scrub is someone who likes to play by there rules only. A Stop Having Fun Guy plays by the tournament rules.
RegalStar
09:47:49 PM Mar 6th 2011
A scrub is someone who insists that their own house-rule-style play are the only way to play the game.

A stop having fun guy is someone who insists their tournament-type play is the only way to play the game.

You can kind of say that their difference is that while a scrub scoffs at anything that's "overpowered", a stop having fun guy would embrace them. The similarity is that they both insist that their way of playing the game is the only way of playing the game.
Serefin
04:05:22 PM Dec 15th 2012
A Scrub is someone who'll quit an online match of Pokémon if you send out Arceus. A "Stop Having Fun!" Guy will quit if you send out Blaziken.
216.244.183.100
topic
09:25:16 AM Feb 1st 2011
Even though "Stop Having Fun" Guys is a good trope name, shouldn't the guys that are the opposite of "scrubs" be called "sburcs" (singular: "sburc")?

DrStarky
04:02:17 PM Mar 30th 2011
No. "Stop Having Fun" Guys has good wicks and it sounds fine. If we were to rename it, it wouldn't because we want to give it a Backwards Name.

BarryOgg
topic
06:15:28 AM Nov 23rd 2010
Um, what is the limit on discussion posts length? I'm not able to paste the nuked examples here.
BarryOgg
06:16:23 AM Nov 23rd 2010
edited by BarryOgg
I'll try to split it...

    open/close all folders 

    Meta 
  • This xkcd strip is the Trope Namer.
  • Destructoid's Ten Golden Rules of Online Gaming is a satirical how-to guide on becoming the stereotypical online gamer, including many elements of the SHFG and/or Scrub mentality.
  • Several years back, a former tournament-level player called David Sirlin, who's now working for Capcom, wrote an article called "Playing To Win," which contrasted scrubs and tournament players with little middle ground. The article made some good points, but the tone made it the poster-child of "Stop Having Fun" Guys for years. More recently, he followed it up with Not Playing To Win, a limited defense of casual play.
  • Expect to receive grief for even lagging in online video games. How dare you not pay for the most expensive internet connection, even if it isn't available where you live, and how dare you be using a wireless network that's prone to going on the fritz or randomly burping? There is no excuse for not having the best internet out there!
  • Do you play on anything that isn't part of the glorious PC Master Race? Well, you're wrong, and a terrible person for having fun that way.
  • If you're a PC gamer, do you dare to play any game with a controller instead of a keyboard and mouse? You may as well have just raped a baby.
  • Again, PC users...did you buy a pre-built PC? Do yourself a favour...'DON'T. EVER. SAY. IT. Admitting it is like saying you like to poison babies with LSD.

    Fighting Games 

  • The biggest, and perhaps most goofy of all fighting games' SHFG goes to the entire Super Smash Bros. series. Despite all the ways that this game can be played on both the goofball mess fests and serious 1 on 1 duels, a lot of the serious players seem to heavily focus on the Tournament Level, which focuses on not using items and playing very static stages. While there is nothing wrong with this style of play, it isn't how everyone likes to play, per se. None the less, a quick stop to any Smash Forum and asking up the idea of "how do you play" is not really a good idea... This is lovingly drawn out in this LegendaryFrog comic. The Tournament scene is arguably more well known for its Hatedom than anything else. Despite this, it's hard to find Brawl games that do allow items and break the Abridged Arena Array.
  • In Street Fighter II series, you'll have those who sneer at players who chose Ryu and Ken, because Akuma (who is banned in most tournaments) is "So much better."
  • Inverted by players who prefer "old" Sagat (also extremely good) over Akuma, since Akuma is banned in tournaments — and that means that many people don't find it "useful" to practice against a character you aren't going to play against in tournaments anyways.
  • Guilty Gear fans will often scoff at you for not knowing basic blockstrings and combos, even though many of what they term "basic" require a fair amount of practice (ideally on a home system) to get down pat.
  • You're a scrub if your Ranked Match team in Marvel vs. Capcom 2 consists of anything but Captain Commando, Psylocke, Cyclops, Cable, Magneto, Storm, or Sentinel. Now that the game has been released for Xbox Live, don't you dare complain about seeing the same five or six characters over and over.
  • M.U.G.E.N has a LOT of these guys running around. Due to just how much ground the MUGEN fanbase covers, you are bound to find every type of this imaginable. For every helpful fellow willing to show you the ropes and help you learn how the engine works, you have a hundred angry vets calling you a noob. For every kind soul that offers to guide you to better versions of the characters you like, there are a ton of snarky folks yelling at you for not knowing better. Then there's the fact that nearly every franchise with characters available in the engine has solid fan base and hate bases, so you can expect a lot of controversy in that regard. Finally and probably most aggravatingly, there is the elitist fighting game fanboy that will laugh at you and despise you if you show so much as a passing interest in Mugen. Because clearly enjoying a fighting game engine means you know nothing about fighting games, right?
  • The first requested faq on any SmackDown vs. Raw game? "I want a CAW of last year's John Cena, and 2009's Cena, and 2008's Cena, one with a hat, one without a hat, one with a singlet..." The second requested faq however is "lol what are all the unblockable Gamebreaker moves? I go tke my 98 level CAW to pwn all u noobs cause i'm so l33t lol."
BarryOgg
06:18:26 AM Nov 23rd 2010
edited by BarryOgg
    open/close all folders 

    Role Playing Games 
  • Mass Effect has a notorious amount of SHFG. Didn't kill the Rachni queen without metagaming? You're retarded. Didn't keep the Collector base? You deserve to die. Saved the Council? Get off the forum!
    • Also, if you don't play on the hardest setting "Insanity", then as a rule, you're no better than a scrub, because according to the BioWare forums, Insanity is apparently "the difficulty the game was meant to be played on."
    • Usually inverted on the popular Mass Effect threads on 4chan's /v/ board., though with similar responses. Kill the Council? What are you doing!? Save the Collector base? You're gonna doom the galaxy! Romance Tali? Bad move! Kill off Wrex and Grunt? Get out right now.
  • Penny Arcade has the story of how Gabe took the mickey out of a larval-stage SHFG. Also a follow-up post showing why if you are a parent of a young child, you should never, ever let him or her attend an officially sanctioned tournament.
    • It also seems that the kids made him recognise the start of potentially similar traits:
    It was actually really cool to see how much these kids love Pokemon. I've been so into it recently that I think I'd forgotten I should be having fun. With my pages of hand written math and charts of carefully plotted out EV training regiments I actually felt sort of dirty. These little kids were showing me teams comprised not of statistically optimal Pokemon but of their favorites.
  • Go to the general board of any Pokémon game in Game Faqs, and ask for advice on which moves you should teach to your freshly caught favourite. There will always be someone who will (a) tell you that this pokémon is not suited for competitive use, and point towards better pokémon who outdoes yours in every possible aspect, (b) variation of the first, suggesting an ineffective moveset because your pokémon does not deserve the good TMs, or (c) copy-paste a Smogon moveset, even if it involves chainbreeding.
    • Smogon movesets in particular are rather useless for normal play - the average Smogon moveset requires not only chainbreeding, but also pulling the Pokemon up to 100, EV and IV training every stat from the bottom, and using one-use, hard-to-find items. Also notably, most tiers in the game are based on the rest of the metagame, and only one Gym Leader in any game (Roark's Geodude and Onix in D/P/P, which he puts aside for the rematch) uses Stealth Rock. At this point, they aren't even for cartridge play. A lot of them involve giving the pokemon in question a specific Hidden power type, which is impossible in the actual games. They're all really only meant for Shoddy Battle, Smogon's Gen IV battle sim. This in turn means that they totally ignore the idea that some players don't do competitive battles or like to keep things simple.
    • It isn't just Game Faqs. Pretty much anywhere the Pokémon fandom hangs out you will find REALLY obnoxious "Stop Having Fun" Guys. There may be more than even Smash Bros. Wi-fi and YouTube videos are dominated by them, so much that you can't find a casual battle anywhere unless you play with friends. And the worst of all is Smogon. Whatever you do, don't go to Smogon if you're a casual player.
    • In fact, pretty much the entire competitive Pokémon community is the epitome of this trope. If you’re one of the poor fools who dares to raise your Pokémon without horribly and cruelly abusing/biologically mutating EV Training them, you are going to be called a Scrub and be publicly humiliated. And if you even think about thinking about mentioning that it’s actually a physical possibility to play the game without regard to the endless amounts of soulless numbers and statistics, prepare to be mercilessly flamed until absolutely nothing is left of you.
    • Heck, just having the "wrong" moveset can cause the "Stop Having Fun" Guys to look down upon you. And to put it further, having the wrong nature, stats, and whatnot is also frowned upon.
      • Speaking of "correct" teams and moves: one war story has the teller losing five widely-used competitive Pokemon before sweeping with one normally ranked in the second-lowest tier, to the complete surprise of both players. The hilarity is best appreciated in the original thread (complete with chat-log).
    • Do not mention you use "Uber" Pokemon. At all. Even if you're just a casual player (IE: Not very competitive) the more hardcore gamers will accuse you of using nothing more than "Game Breakers" or "Relying too much on over-powered Pokemon to win battles". Heck, just having an "Uber" on your team and not even using it counts.
    • Two words: Action Replay. Hardcore Pokemon gamers will frown upon those who use "cheat codes" to obtain certain Pokemon (Mainly Event Pokemon), even though it is technically legal to do so.
  • You're not allowed to run from a battle in a JRPG. Ever. It doesn't matter whether the enemy's kicking your ass hard and it's been hours since you used a save point, you're in a real-life hurry to get to a save point, or the enemy is so weak that there's no point in fighting it for what little spoils you'll gain. If you run from battle, you are a complete RPG Scrub.
    • God know how you're supposed to advance in Suikoden 2 then: one of the character recruitments 'requires' a certain amount of battle retreats. SHFG's tend not to be big on logic or exemptions.
  • Apparently, you're supposed to enjoy Level Grinding as well. If you don't, then you just don't know how to have fun in an RPG.
    • Averted/Inverted somewhat in Final Fantasy VIII- Level grinding makes the game excessively harder, the enemies scale with you.
      • And then played straight, as actually playing the game with the Experts of FFVIII will give you a very bizarre Solve the Soup Cans kind of logic in how to "properly" play the game. Said way tends to involve either playing Card Games or trying to Card Them All! Which actually is even LONGER and MORE complicated then normal Level Grinding.
  • There is only one party setup worth using. Every other combination of characters is absolutely worthless. Unless you specify otherwise, everyone will always assume you're using that party.
    • Very true in the Final Fantasy Tactics series. Using a Gadgeteer/Tinker? You're an idiot for using a "garbage" class. No matter how much you try to defend your decisions on what classes you use and how you use them, the "expert" players will just lecture you on how the other classes are so much better than what you use, despite the fact that Advance and A2 are pretty easy to beat with almost any class set up you use.
  • At the other extreme there's a set of Scrubs who will sneer at anyone who's crappy enough to "need" all the best stuff to win, in effect declaring Self Imposed Challenges the only valid way to play. Apparently if you're not playing through the game as a level 1 solo Joke Character without equipment you suck and have no business playing it.
  • On that note, do not mention Break HP Limit to any Final Fantasy X. Ever. Otherwise, be prepared for a paragraph of text on how stupid you are for even thinking of using it, and another paragraph on how you're SUPPOSED to be fighting "Insert Bonus Boss Here". Like the FFVIII example, it tends to be a Solve the Soup Cans! Logic that probably involves just as much work to find all the parts that you need. Figures.
  • A perfect example of what happens when you mix this with Fan Dumb is shown here. Beware the "Tyranny of Fun"!
  • Do you want to have fun playing RPGs? James Raggi considers you inferior. "Inferior" is perhaps too nice a word; "the scum of the earth" is a more accurate way of putting it. He even put up an followup to the article insulting anybody who was linked to it from this wiki.
  • Try playing Fallout 3 without using VATS much, or by actually playing as a good guy. Prepare to have people yelling your head off.
    • Even if it's not a competitive game, don't you dare admit to using certain perks, like the ones that increase your experience gain or reveal all the map locations, because you're a noob who needs to level up faster to play the game to win.
      • Actually, don't even bother admitting to playing or liking Fallout 3 even if it's the ever buggy PC version. There are many a SHFG who whines endlessly about their dislike for the game and will not allow you to enjoy it on those merits.
  • When faced with a party of Munchkins, a game of Dungeons & Dragons can turn into this very quickly. Woe to you if you happen to have a character who is not min-maxed up the arse. Even if you want to make a character who fulfils a role that the party needs, you're still a worthless maggot because you aren't multiclassing/are multiclassing/aren't using a cleric or druid.
    • It can be a real problem in some editions if characters are at different levels of min/maxing: the game balance can be shattered. A character min/maxed by a pro and a character made by a person new to the game can have such a gap in power and survivability that anything that would be a challenge for the min/maxed character is likely to destroy the new person's character in one round. A certain amount of balance must be struck in this case where the DM either reigns in the min/maxed character or helps the new player min/max their character somewhat, or a combination thereof. What makes the "Stop Having Fun" Guy is he will be unwilling to either tone down his character or help the other player beef up his, instead deciding to berate and insist that his character is not the problem at all and expect everyone to play his way.
      • Exalted has a similar problem. Unless all the PCs put some effort into being combat-capable, anything that can even remotely challenge the combat-monsters will shred the non-combatants before they can blink.
  • There was a time in AdventureQuest's history (before a lot of the new quests were released with scaled level versions) when they were all one difficulty. Then Fire War was released, a low-to-medium level quest against the fire mage Drakkonan. This was immediately followed by a string of level 80+ content. When people complained that they couldn't do any of the new content they were told in no uncertain terms that low-level players had been given one special event and that was enough. Some particularly egregious arguments insinuated that even giving low-level players one event amounted to insufferable persecution of hardcore fans.
  • Disgaea2. Do you use monster classes for anything other that Magichange? You are noob, humanoids are way better. The best class is Samurai Magic Knight. And God help you if you teach healer any attack magic.

    Rhythm Games 
  • Honorable Mention goes to the various "real musicians" who tell players of games like Guitar Hero and Rock Band that they should stop playing video games and learn a real instrument, ignoring the fact there are no Modern Warfare fans killing passengers at airports like the infamous No Russian level, or otherwise stop playing video games and join the real CIA. Most of the time, however, these people fail to realize that these games do not just emulate playing an instrument, but the entire rock star lifestyle, which would normally be extremely improbable to obtain in real life regardless of how well one can play a real guitar.
    • Harmonix have responded to these complaints by adding the more realistic Pro Mode for Rock Band 3, in which drummers get to use additional cymbals, keyboardists get to use the entire two-octave keyboard at once, and most anticipated of all, guitarrists can use a new guitar controller with six strings and over a hundred buttons on its neck to more accurately simulate guitar playing, with a proper, fully-functional six-string controller on its way. This, in turn, has bred a new kind of Stop Having Fun Guy, who insists that no matter how good a guitarrist this game may make you, you're still a scrub for learning to play through a video game instead of practicing by yourself.
    • Some actual musicians in bands have tried rhythm games and failed, simply because the controllers are different than actual guitars or drums, for a variety of reasons  * . One such example appears in Gene Simmons Family Jewels, where KISS tries to play Detroit Rock City on Rock Band 2, but fails after only a few seconds. Such encounters often leads the game's fans to accuse the musicians of not being able to play their instruments.
    • Actually there are people wondering why anyone can have fun playing FPS and/or fantasy action games if the only proper way to have fun of shooting and fighting is, respectively, training at the shooting range/IPSC course or joining local medieval reenactment group.
    • One wonders if, for games like Command & Conquer, Medal of Honor and the like, Al Qaeda feel the same.
  • You're not allowed to play pop'n music with the Beat-Pop modifier. After all, if you want gray and blue notes so badly, why not just play beatmania IIDX?
  • Dance Dance Revolution (along with its counterparts Pump It Up and In The Groove) have similar issues throughout:
    • When it comes to the safety bar, the players can be easily separated into two types: those who support their weight with it to achieve the highest score, and those who adamantly refuse to do so because they think it's more fun that way. Both groups are equally vocal and equally annoying. Some in the anti-bar camp will heckle or even outright smack the hand of any player whom they see reaching for the bar. Even if the player is trying to beat That One Song or play Oni Mode (where you have to play 5+ songs in a row without breaks, and missing 4 steps out of 300+ on any one song will fail you and end your game on the spot) or Survival Mode (instead of missing 4 notes max, it becomes a Timed Mission with only accurate stepping to keep the timer alive for the most part).
    • Similar but lesser hate can be directed as a player who uses speed mods or any built-in noteskins to make reading stepcharts easier, even if some of this noteskins are default options on some of the games. The only possible exception is the Solo modifier on older DDR arcade releases: due to a bug, if one player chose Solo, both players had to have it on.
  • For a while, the speed mod debate carried over to Guitar Hero. It certainly didn't help that in all Guitar Hero games so far but GH5  * , speed modifiers were filed under the cheats menu.
  • The online game JamLegend's score system awards most experienced players a golden "P" (pro) badge.Pray you don't end up in a multiplayer match made up of pros...
    • Besides that, most comments on the songs will simply consist of "FC" (Full Combo), sometimes followed up with "Too easy" or "Can't believe someone failed it".The moderator staff deleted them at first, but eventually resigned and let the SHFGs shout out their pride.
  • Homebrew Bemani games falls victim to SHFG traps, most stepcharts wind up in the vein of "It is supposed to be hard, learn to play" songs. Rather evident in StepMania and Osu!
BarryOgg
06:22:13 AM Nov 23rd 2010
edited by BarryOgg
SpellBlade
11:20:24 PM Dec 10th 2010
I suggest you dump it on troper tales.
Scardoll
06:24:56 AM May 15th 2012
The above post is hilarious when we consider what happened to troper tales and what happened to this page's examples.
tsstevens
topic
11:07:41 AM Nov 19th 2010
Alright, why s the TV Tropes example keep being deleted? It's a serious issue, a serious issue that needs to be said and addressed.
SpellBlade
11:52:31 PM Nov 20th 2010
edited by SpellBlade
First of all, if you believe it is indeed an issue, making snide comments against the wiki isn't the way to address it. Go to the forums, and create a thread stating your concerns.

Second, please read the edit reasons in the example-removing edits. This is a wiki, not a message board or blog. Tvtropes has a definitive mission, and the issues in the example hinder it. Conversation in the Main Page damages readability and clutters up the page. And as for Just a Face and a Caption... Well, just read the page. It's presumptions to assume everyone knows who your favorite character is and how they demonstrate the trope.

Third, if the example was supposed to address people "taking the wiki too seriously," then it shouldn't be phrased like it's complaining about polices you don't like.

Fourth, the staff created places for subjective fun. Everything from reviews to It Just Bugs Me! to Just for Fun pages aren't related to the wiki's mission, but they still exist since people enjoy them.

A while back, subjective tropes were purged from work pages. Instead of just deleting them outright, the admins created the YMMV tab, so all of the YMMV's can be preserved. That way, people who like them can read 'em all in one spot, and people who don't can just avoid them.
Ghilz
12:46:30 AM Nov 21st 2010
edited by Ghilz
Fifth: This trope is about Tournament Play, especially towards Videogaming.

Tv Tropes is neither a tournament nor a videogame. Read the definition (I know, reading the page you are editing is so HARD!).
tsstevens
02:18:10 AM Nov 21st 2010
So I should nuke everything not game related?
Ghilz
02:35:52 AM Nov 21st 2010
edited by Ghilz
Everything not related to some form of game, yes. As it's technically not what the trope is about. It's about imposing a type of streamlined gameplay especially that prefered in tournament, that tend to denies full access to all that can be done in the game.

Non Videogame examples (like card games, wargames, RPG, sports, etc..) still work, but non game/sport examples don't make sense. All the PC examples in the Meta section, for example are wrong (Most of those are Fandom Heresy)
obsidiandice
topic
02:57:50 AM Aug 27th 2010
edited by obsidiandice
Example on Sirlin seems a bit nattery and multi-biased. I'm going to merge the two arguments into one statement mentioning contention. Feel free to re-edit if people dislike th change.

Old version:
  • Several years back, a tournament-level player by the name of David Sirlin wrote an article called "Playing To Win," the upshot of which is, if you're not playing a game at a cut-throat competitive level, you're not worthy to talk about it or venture an opinion on it. It has a few thought provoking points, but the arrogance of the piece kind of eats away at that.

New Version:
  • Several years back, a tournament-level player by the name of David Sirlin wrote an article called "Playing To Win," which contrasted scrubs and tournament players with little middle ground. The article made some good points, but the tone made it the poster-child of "Stop Having Fun" Guys for years. More recently, he followed it up with Not Playing To Win, a limited defense of casual play.
BattleMage
topic
02:28:37 PM Aug 16th 2010
edited by BattleMage
This former example seems to be speculating based off of the games’ structure, and it's chock full of Weasel Words.

  • In the case of Metroid Prime, the "Stop Having Fun" Guys are actually the company rather than the players. Retro seem to have a deep, abiding and entirely pointless hatred for sequence breaking, to the point that each successive version has tried progressively harder to ruin the game for speedrunning, apparently simply on the basis that this isn't the correct way to play the game.

Could I have a statement made by Retro on this? "It's harder to speedrun in the newer games" is too vague.
Evilest_Tim
01:02:54 AM Aug 20th 2010
edited by Evilest_Tim
http://www.metroid2002.com/home.php

Check "Version Differences." Note how many are specifically designed to stop players who are sequence breaking from accessing areas. Retro do hate sequence breaking, and have done their level best to remove or cripple any player ability to do things out of order. This:

http://www.metroid2002.com/version_differences_geothermal_core.php

Is a good example of repeated attempts to stop players skipping the Grapple Beam, ending with sticking a lock on the door that doesn't go away unless you've picked it up. It can't be argued this is for any reason other than the programmers not liking sequence breaking; the sequence breaks require fiddly and obtuse techniques a regular player isn't going to find by accident.
BattleMage
10:41:03 AM Aug 20th 2010
edited by BattleMage
Looks like most of the changes were removing exploits a player wouldn't find unless he knew about them. Since the Plasma Beam is a Game Breaker, it makes sense to stop the player from getting it too early. Most of the sequence breaking requires the player to use unintended exploits (compared to the 2-D games, especially Zero Mission where bomb-jumping was deliberately programmed in and you are rewarded for speedruns,) so I don't see how removing them fits the trope since Prime wasn't designed to accommodate speedrunning in the first place.

Compare this example to the Roller Coaster Tycoon example, where the creator removed a widely popular game mode in the sequel because "that's not point of RCT," thus damaging the game's quality. There's a difference between removing minor exploits very few people care about and removing an entire playable game mode.

If you could provide a more blatant example (preferably one where you don't need to use an extremely obscure engine exploit,) that would be great.

Addendum: Someone YKTTW'd this.
Evilest_Tim
04:28:58 PM Aug 26th 2010
edited by Evilest_Tim
Basically, it's because they decided playing in an unintended way was bad and had to be stopped. In other words, stop having fun, you dirty speedrunners, it's not the right fun for you to have. You can only play our game the way you were supposed to play it. People who have fun that way are having the right fun.

Non-examples would be things like the slower loader (yeah, it means PAL can't compete with NTSC speedruns, but it also stops the game crashing) or making Meta Ridley harder to pin with the Wave Beam (so he isn't a total joke of a boss). These affect speedruns, but they're also fair-enough fixes for issues in normal play, and those legitimately trump preserving speedrunning. Doing things purely and entirely to screw over speedrun techniques is just disliking one mode of play (and thus one group of people's fun) so much you want to actively harm their ability to do it; early plasma beam will never come up if someone is just playing the game normally, precisely because the methodology is so obscure. The only difference between that and the other examples is that normally a "Stop Having Fun" Guy doesn't have the means to physically remove modes of play he hates from all future versions of the game.

I don't really see how it matters if you look down on the playstyle of five hundred players or fifty thousand, or whether you regard what they use as "techniques" or "exploits;" even if we go for the loaded word, an exploit only matters if someone actually loses out from it (say, a wallhack in a multiplayer game); here, it's removing the "exploit" that means some people lose out on their fun, while everyone else's game remains the same. Except in the example given; if you weren't aware you could lay the Power Bomb on the rail above (I wasn't, since you never need to lay power bombs on a spider ball track prior to that point), the added pile of Bendezium rubble actually makes it very hard to land on the platform without being thrown right back down to the bottom of the entire room to start over. So in screwing over speedrunners they actually made the room potentially harder for everyone.
71.52.139.180
topic
05:47:27 AM Aug 1st 2010
edited by 71.52.139.180
Is it a justified statement to claim that SHF Gs are the reason gamers have such a negative sterotype attached to them?

You know... The one how we all are just some basement dwelling hackers who are so insecure about themselves that they need to be the best at a videogame to validate their existance.

I beleive that SHF Gs are the prime source of this mentality. Am i correct in assuming this? I just want to know who is to blame for me being shot down by every girl I've asked out just because I like to play videogames!
Scardoll
07:24:38 PM Jan 28th 2011
edited by Scardoll
It's not that.

It's that gamers are typically less-than-average in athletics and socialization. We often shut ourselves out from the outside world, preferring the visceral thrills. Personal hygiene isn't the only thing we don't use. Gamers also tend to like to use the internet, and when we get on we can be very mean people.

We do not need to shift the blame for our problems to those we dislike. Instead, we can actually face those issues.
DrStarky
04:11:35 PM Mar 30th 2011
@ the OP.

Most mainstream media just protray gamers as nerd with varying degrees of uncleanliness.

They usually don't even know about compettive play.
neobowman
topic
01:03:43 PM Jul 23rd 2010
I know there's a crowner about this (wtf is a crowner anyway), but really, I think this picture would be better for people to understand the first glance. [1]
BattleMage
01:20:30 PM Jul 23rd 2010
I'd bring that up in the thread the Repair Shop notification links to.
Poochy.EXE
topic
07:27:59 PM Jul 12th 2010
edited by Poochy.EXE
Is it just my imagination, or does this page seem to attract more lame Justifying Edits than pretty much the rest of the wiki combined? Seems to me like the SHFGs are trying to resolve the cognitive dissonance by trying to rationalize their behavior this way.

I propose we add something to the article text like "Please refrain from Justifying Edits trying to excuse or explain their behavior. We know why they're doing it, because this page probably wouldn't exist in the first place if we didn't."
Scardoll
07:17:48 PM Jan 28th 2011
Even better: We removed all the examples.

That way, there won't be any whining in the first place.
WatcherCCG
08:59:58 PM Jun 14th 2013
A pity, but slapping this trope with a YMMV tag was probably for the best.
BritBllt
topic
04:44:30 AM Jun 26th 2010
edited by 87.254.89.157
Removing some natter...

  • There is, though, a common belief among tourney players that if any card that costs four or more mana doesn't win the game for you on the spot, it should never even be put in your deck, which the more experienced tourney jocks know ain't so and casual players find laughable. The specific quote comes from Zvi Mowshowitz, long time professional magic player; but even he finds the idea laughable nowadays as seen in this article.
  • In general, Magic averts this trope. If you beat a Spike with unconventional tactics, he'll usually compliment you instead of calling you "lucky" or "cheap." Winning, rather than "proper play," is the metric of player skill.
  • There are, however, exceptions; particularly irritating are those who fill their decks with foreign-language cards for "variation" and almost roll their eyes out of their skulls if you have to actually ask what a particular card actually does.
  • There is a definite subtype of Spike, though, that loves to fill their deck with only "good" rares, barring basic lands. You're winning? Spike's attitude becomes a bit abusive and Spike acts like your deck is cheap, no matter what it's composed of. Spike is winning? Spike then becomes condescending about how "It's a shame you can't afford all the great cards like Spike can." Seriously, I can't be the only one who's ever run into this type of player who is rather drastically mistaken about what a "great" card actually is.

I'm not really into Magic, but what I gather from the above is just that there are exceptions to every blanket statement you can make about the players, which is true of any entry.

  • Try playing most card games for fun. Some like Texas Hold 'em and Poker get this treatment moreso than others. People also insult you for not playing the game correctly.
    • Which is ironic, considering that the people being insulted are effectively handing out free money to the people who hate them.
      • Not necessarily. There is nothing more frustrating than drawing a monster hand pre-flop, getting community cards that don't seem to threaten your hand, then dropping your entire bankroll to some schmuck who decided to stay in with nothing and happened to luck into a winning hand.
        • Yes, but you want people to be making plays like that. They'll get lucky once in a while, but usually it'll work out in your favour.
          • Except when it doesn't. A single bad beat can be VERY costly to your bankroll, and that's what makes it so frustrating. And cause the guy is just staying in regardless, there are no tells to read, so you have no indication as a player that maybe you should back down.
            • It's a game with an element of luck, deal with it or don't play.
    • Try playing Blackjack at a casino without having memorized a strategy card, but this reaction is somewhat justified since your mistakes can screw things up for the other players.
      • But only somewhat because it only "affects" other players in a results-oriented sense; whether the other players play well or poorly has no effect on your chances of winning, but that's a small comfort to blackjack noobs who just saw someone "take the dealer's bust card."
        • the effect is real, but not as prevalent as you'd expect. As the game continues, the count tends towards the middle. SO when the player at 3rd base takes a hit when he has no business doing so (when the count is high and a 10 will bust him) he is likely to take the dealer's bust card. Sure, there may be another ten after, but the odds of the dealer getting a ten DID go down.
      • Sometimes, you can even get insulted by inexperienced players when you play correctly but counter-intuitively.
      • Insulting opposing poker players for perceived mistakes can be a huge part of the Meta Game.

Wow. O.o I worked in "for the most part" and the last bit of natter to the main point, but the rest of it seems to be the same way as Magic; there are exceptions to every rule and counter exceptions to the exceptions, but that's fine. Nobody's saying every experienced player fits the trope definition.
homogenized
topic
11:40:16 PM Jun 18th 2010
edited by homogenized
I kind of wonder just which Smash Bros. "tourneyfags" (for lack of a better term) fall into, this or Scrub.

SHF Gs accept everything of the game: it's rules, it's (im)balance, it's glitches; and work within those confines to develop high level strategies centred on winning. They claim their way is the only proper way.

Scrubs impose their own rules that deny things that are imbalanced and shun exploitation of glitches, in order to make the game more enjoyable to play in general. They claim their way is the only proper way.

Those Smash Bros. guys though, seem like a hatechild between the two, they impose their own rules that remove parts of the game and work within their confines to develop strategies in the name of winning. And they too claim their way is the only proper way.

As a casual guy watching on the sidelines, it makes me wonder what's up.
Magus
11:54:49 AM Jul 15th 2010
The way things work in tournaments isn't a scrub mentality as much as a way of imposing Competitive Balance. Some tournaments put money or other large prizes on the line, and if, for example, items were turned on high, there is a chance that a weaker player could beat a greater player if a Heart Container spawned next to him and he suddenly regained all his health. This goes beyond being "cheap"–tournaments turn off items because it can turn the outcome of matches into a Luck-Based Mission. Note that this isn't a criticism of items as a whole–I play with items on Medium because I have fun with some element of luck in the game. But it doesn't fit for tournaments and can bring a heated match to an anticlimactic finish.

Some stages are turned off because some characters have a massive advantage on them, such as Shiek being able to infinite anyone to death on Mushroomy Kingdom. Note that this isn't Scrub behavior because even the Shiek player will accept that he won't play with this disadvantage because it is unfair to the other player.

The difference I can make is that a "Stop Having Fun" Guy will want something turned off because it's unfair at the highest competitive level, while a Scrub will want something turned off because it's unfair to him specifically. There are holes in both of these arguments, of course, but the people you're thinking of fall directly into the former.
KnownUnknown
10:41:12 PM Jul 15th 2010
edited by KnownUnknown
I've said it once and I'll say it again. SHFG has little to do with the rulesetting. It's the attitude. That condescending attitude you get with some Smash players where they say people you use items or play non-tourney stages are playing the game incorrectly or they assume they don't know how to play the game as well as they do, scoff at people who play differently than them, just because they happen to use a playstyle that's used in tournaments? That's a SHFG. The kind of guy who treats you like you have no business considering yourself a gamer just because you don't play the way they do.

Someone who just plays the game tourney-style is not a SHFG, and if you go around accusing people of being such just for playing a different style than you then you deserve to be called a Scrub. Incidentally, that's the reason why Scrubs and SHF Gs are, at their core, so very similar.

PS: Technically speaking, nearly all the stages in Smash are fair and impartial. They're just random, which is not the same as unfair. And, actually, most of them aren't even random, since events happen on a set timer in many of them. But that's just me being pedantic.
Scardoll
06:47:16 AM Apr 25th 2011
edited by Scardoll
PS: Technically speaking, nearly all the stages in Smash are fair and impartial.

Nope. Otherwise, stage counterpicking wouldn't be a valid tactic.

Take Mute City and Final Destination for example. Both are flat stages, but both breed significantly different tactics; FD is extremely projectile friendly due to its larger size, while Mute City is built around being aggressive, due to its smaller size and lack of normal edges.

Most scrolling stages tend to fall under the "douchey to heavy characters" category; Rainbow Cruise is the exception because the stage moves very slowly and predictably.
Serefin
04:24:24 PM Dec 15th 2012
Another example: Battlefield, the most basic of the fields in Brawl. It's gimmick is that it has multiple layouts, using a different one just about every time you play on it. Practicing to the point of Godhood on one layout could screw you over on another.
74.229.7.71
topic
06:09:34 PM Mar 19th 2010
Neither of these are SHF Gs but the team that requested playing the "proper" way is certainly a scrub.

•How David Beats Goliath is a New Yorker article about this trope. It talks about a girls' basketball team reaching the National Junior Basketball Championships due a new technique that wore down both teams' stamina much faster - and their team had worked almost solely on building stamina. The girls were then castigated by the other teams for playing 'unfairly' and not letting the teams 'develop basketball skills'. The team lost its final game by caving to pressure and playing the 'proper' way after a ref called excessive amounts of fouls. So in short, Stop Having Fun Guys can easily turn into Scrubs when the "wrong" method beats them. ◦It should be noted as well that the national game was played on their opponent's court (presumably with overwhelming home team support), and the referee in question was supplied by the home team.
MOD
topic
12:02:29 PM Mar 11th 2010
edited by MOD
As a reply to:

"Known Unknown: Er, yeah. The main page notes how ironically similar Scrubs and SHF Gs are. As for making them a sliding scale... that's a really bad idea, since the things that drive the two viewpoints are very different - it's more just that every viewpoint has assholes as well as more sensible people that follow it."

I didn't make myself clear it seems: Not sliding scale, to separate things. Something like Simhead from Player Archetypes, who is clearly a scrub, but may or may not be 'casual'. Can he fall under 'Stop Having Fun Guys'?
Adumbrodeus
07:52:14 PM Mar 11th 2010
Yes, the simhead is definitely a "Stop Having Fun Guy", he's arrogantly forcing you to play by his rules, the belief that his way is the only way to play the game.

Well, unless he's just attempting to play that way, if he doesn't try to force his opponents to play like simheards, he's not this.

Basically, this trope would serve best being the core trope for all people who wanna force people to play ONLY THEIR WAY, scrubs would be the casual version, there needs to be a "Do not play the game" version ala the trope namer, and there needs to be a "everybody must play to win, ALWAYS!" version.
MOD
08:04:36 AM Mar 12th 2010
edited by MOD
I think half the editors would say: "no, because he's not playing to win."

That's what I tried to suggest on the archived page, to define a clear direction and make it either

- Supertrope of The Scrub: "It's not 'fun' if you're not playing my way." whether it is coming from Simhead (Scrub) or Cheeser (tournament player/"playing to win"-guy as long as you ignore the ragequitting-part. Simheads make just as good ragequitters - i added that to Player Archetypes now - and people using everything available can have a lot of respect for the game. Just ask people that know everything about Mv C 2 after playing it for 10 years)

or

- "Competitive is the only way"-guy doesn't accept that some people just don't want to use everything the game has to offer. Definitely not a Simhead.

now it seems to me that one part of the editors here edit it to be the first and other editors turn it into the second and another group tries to turn it into The Scrub.
BattleMage
06:43:50 PM May 14th 2010
This is a scrub:

Dammit! Don't you already know my way is the only valid way of having balance?

This is a Stop Having Fun Guy:

Dammit! Don't you already know my way is the only valid way of gaming?
back to Main/StopHavingFunGuys

TV Tropes by TV Tropes Foundation, LLC is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License.
Permissions beyond the scope of this license may be available from thestaff@tvtropes.org.
Privacy Policy