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XFllo
topic
05:29:47 PM Aug 8th 2013
edited by 77.48.59.223
Concrete examples of films and characters should be listed.

Edit to add: This is still a general example which are not allowed.

  • Though Grace Kelly often plays a Proper Lady, she often goes into "spirited" territory, particularly in To Catch A Thief and Rear Window.

Please describe her characters from those films in sufficient detail.


XFllo
07:53:49 PM Apr 29th 2014
These two examples were deleted (not by me) with this edit reason: "Tomboy in olden times, not a lady. The description says, 'she is, after all, a lady.'"

  • Among the March sisters in Little Women, Jo is one who best fits this trope, given her outspoken, tomboy nature and her intellectual gifts. (Meg plays the Proper Lady in contrast and younger Beth is another little "angel of the house".)
  • Montgomery used the trope in her most famous work Anne of Green Gables, with Fiery Redhead Anne being the Spirited Young Lady in contrast to her best friend Proper Lady Diana. They also fit Tomboy and Girly Girl, by turn-of-the-century standards.

I'm not familiar with Anne, and I only read part of Little Women and saw some adaptations. I think Jo March is sufficiently lady-like to fit Spirited Young Lady. What do others think?
lexicon
09:48:31 PM Apr 29th 2014
I deleted them because as far as I see there's nothing lady-like about them. Meg keeps trying to get Jo to act like a lady because Jo does not abide by the rules of her society. What would you say she does that's lady-like?

Anne doesn't bend the rules just a little. She breaks them when she yells at the neighbor and breaks her slate over Gilbert's head.
Synchronicity
03:15:13 AM Apr 30th 2014
I'd say Anne does grow into one, though.
XFllo
04:37:10 AM May 1st 2014
Just to note, Spirited Young Lady is listed on the Tomboy index.

Spirited Young Lady: A complex variant of this. Confident high class woman who can bend the rules without quite breaking them. Maintains a feminine mystique while often having some tomboyish characteristics and tastes.
lexicon
10:39:46 AM May 1st 2014
I have no problem with a tomboy being on the page as long as the example says how she's a feminine lady as well.
Furienna
07:13:17 AM May 3rd 2014
You should also remember that a tomboy is more likely to become a Spirited Young Lady than a Proper Lady when she grows up. So I say Jo March and Anne Shirley should be put back.
TTurtle
01:06:39 PM May 6th 2014
edited by 71.193.17.168
Furienna just said the very thing I wanted to say. In period literature, whether we like it or not, a Tom Boy frequently matures into a Spirited Young Lady as she gradually conforms to society a bit more. (Actually, I was just wondering if I should edit the trope description to make that clear, because it's pretty important. Admittedly, this is already a long trope description, but there are reasons for that.)

I do think that adult Jo and adult Anne fit this trope. Hell, Jo was one of the original defining examples of the trope, first mentioned back when it was in YTTW. It kind of floors me that someone would think that she didn't fit!
lexicon
04:53:15 PM May 6th 2014
It kind of floors me that people think they don't have to explain how it fits. The context in each example must include two things, not just how she's spirited but how she's lady like. In what way is she acting like a lady?
Furienna
07:39:24 PM May 6th 2014
Didn't they become more lady-like as they matured though, just like both I and Tturtle have said? That would make them qualify, wouldn't it?
TTurtle
06:49:52 PM May 14th 2014
lexicon does have a point: the descriptions should try to indicate something about what makes the character a young lady as well as spirited. Many of the current descriptions focus on the "spirited" part and seem to take the "lady" for granted.

It's been a while since I've read Little Women or Anne of Green Gables, so I don't know how good a job I'd do of revising the descriptions. I can do it if no one else wants to, but is anyone else up for it?
XFllo
05:09:10 PM May 29th 2014
edited by 77.48.59.193
I agree, lots of the examples need context. Anyone willing to comment-out Zero Context Examples? (And probably those half-context examples too?)
TTurtle
10:13:18 AM Jul 8th 2014
Added context to a few of the "half-context examples," but I think there's still more work to do.
lexicon
01:02:56 PM Jul 8th 2014
I don't think Anne of Green Gables longing to be beautiful makes her ladylike since there's the whole breaking her slate over someone's head thing. Maybe once she does become beautiful when she's older.

The Duchess, Titanic and The Mask of Zorro are written to specifically say how she's spirited and ladylike.
TTurtle
01:53:07 PM Jul 10th 2014
The narrator refers to Anne as "feminine to the core" at one point early in the novel, after Anne tells someone she'd rather be pretty than smart. To me, that suggests that there's a "ladylike" aspect of Anne that is in tension with her temper. I don't think that one act of violence to a boy disqualifies her from being a Spirited Young Lady.
JoieDeCombat
02:03:34 PM Jul 10th 2014
edited by 10.130.136.58
Anne also Thinks Like a Romance Novel, with a vivid and very romantically-inclined imagination which she indulges in the form of fairy tales, love stories, and overly dramatic and often tragic Mary Sue characters. The slate-breaking is a single incident when she's thirteen years old, and it's immediately followed by Anne taking deep offense at having her name misspelled "Ann" because she considers it plain and boring and not nearly as pretty and graceful as it looks with the "e" added.

While she's prone to "scrapes" when she's young, they mostly come in the form of things like getting stuck in a sinking rowboat while pretending to be Elaine the Lily Maid from Arthurian legend, turning her hair green while trying to dye it black, and hilarious accidents at tea parties - not what I consider tomboyish pastimes. She grows much less accident-prone as she gets older, while still retaining her lively spirit, sense of adventure and whimsy, and colorful, romantic imagination.
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