Is this an example?

I'm wondering if this situation is an example of an Ass Pull:

In the first book in a trilogy, Bob cheats on Alice, and there's no indication that Alice knows this by the end of the first book. The opening chapter of the second book, however, reveals that Alice knew the entire time, but how she knew isn't explained until the middle of the third book.

The how does not involve any sort of out-of-nowhere skills on Alice's part (for example, psychic abilities); it's simply not mentioned until then.

edited 1st Aug '17 9:31:05 PM by caivu

I don't see how it fits. It's gradually revealed what and how she knows, and if the reason she knows is reasonable, it's just a question about reader knowledge.

Thanks. That's how I was leaning.

Are the following examples from Chappie being used correctly?:

• Strawman Has a Point: It's easy to imagine Moore with his stance against autonomous robots being the hero in a darker movie, where A.I. Is a Crapshoot. Unfortunately for him, that's not the case here.
• They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot: Somewhere, buried in the concept of hardened criminals raising and being raised by a childlike robot is a good idea for a film. Unfortunately, between the Stunt Casting of Die Antwoord and the mostly-unlikable cast of characters, that idea is not well-served here. For that matter, many viewers felt that the plot would have been much better if Die Antwoord were cut out completely and the film focused more on Deon, Moore, and Chappie's growth.

not sure on the second but in the case of the first where's the point the Strawman is supposed to have?

My guess, AI paranoia.

I presume this A.I. Is a Crapshoot example might expalin this

• A.I. Is a Crapshoot: What Hugh Jackman's character fears of Chappie. Being rather religious, he also views AI as an unnatural perversion of true life.

But this relys under the assumption that Jackman is playing Moore.

edited 2nd Aug '17 6:00:05 AM by MorningStar1337

Either way it's not really spelled out in the entry outside of potholes and, as the entry itself notes, he doesn't have a point. Not in this instance. Plus that's probably misuse of Wrong Genre Savvy.

edited 2nd Aug '17 5:31:04 AM by sgamer82

Re-posting of the last page:

Two other Yugi Oh examples:

• Invincible Villain: Plunges right into Only the Author Can Save Them Now territory, with his Game-Breaker deck and over the top magic powers.

• Superpower Lottery: Has the most broken dueling deck of any character in the regular series, period. His advanced forms of the Orichalcos grant him 500 Life Points each turn for every monster he controls, he can tribute monsters to negate attacks and destroy the attacker, and grant his monsters immunity to opposing magic and trap effects. And this is on top of the base effects of extra monster slots, +500 ATK for your monsters, and immunity to removal. His other cards have effects ranging from negating all battle damage, to destroying enemy monsters and inflicting their ATK as damage to the opponent, to having the same ATK as whatever monster they battle +500. And his ultimate trump card is a monster with infinite ATK points. On top of that, this same monster allows him to keep playing even with zero lifepoints, so he can only lose if the monster is destroyed. Kaiba and Yami Yugi are on the defensive almost the entire duel, and Yami Yugi only endures and wins via several consecutive good draws.

The two examples qualify? The character in question(Dartz) has only one on-screen Duel in the series, and he lost this.

Second, this Chicken Little example qualifies? Here:

• Broken Aesop: The movie inverts the original tale's.

And including an other question. I noted the following example, in Like Reality, Unless Noted:

• Steven Universe seems to be mostly like our world, save with some changes related to the Gem War which ended 5,000 years ago, but that doesn't really explain the U.S. states having different names, Canada's flag being green, or Kansas replacing Hollywood as a major movie-making hub.

The example qualifies?

I don't think that Invincible Villain counts. If anything I'd think that Dartz' duel is closer to Rasputinian Death but I want a second opinion on that (mainly becuase I don't remember how many times Dartz has been put on the edge of defeat).

edited 2nd Aug '17 8:17:12 AM by MorningStar1337

Also, Superpower Lottery doesn't really count for a card game. He didn't win any lottery, he chooses to use cards that did. There's a difference.

For Steven Universe I say it doesn't apply. Like Reality, Unless Noted, as I understand it, means we can assume their world is like ours unless we're told specifically otherwise, such as whatever In a World… gimmick is in play. The SU entry says it is, minus the effects of the Gem War, them goes on to list several things the Gem War does not explain.

edited 2nd Aug '17 8:34:23 AM by sgamer82

Thanks!!!

Would these examples qualify for the tropes before I add them on the work's pages:

Eighth Doctor Adventures:

• Alternate Continuity: This takes place in an Alternate Timeline and is irreconciliable with this:

The Night Of The Doctor and Nicholas Briggs tweet after this episode confirmed Big Finish Doctor Who as canon.

Just checking I've got the tropes correct here!

edited 4th Aug '17 11:17:38 AM by Merseyuser1

Reposting this from the Broken Base clean-up thread, as that thread doesn't seem active this week. The main issue that needs resolution is the first example, and normally I'd wait for a response but this entry is beginning to show signs of an Edit War. I'm not one of the people involved in that, so I have no axe to grind; it came to my attention because it's nothing more than a rant as currently written, so will need rewriting at best.

Bringing up this new entry on the YMMV.RWBY page because it seems like a rant or complaining about things you don't like rather than a genuine case of Broken Base (especially as Jaune is a main character and Pyrrha's team leader and Love Interest, so he can't be a Spotlight Stealing Character on this subject). As far as I know, the fandom is in general agreement that Ruby's development is behind the other characters - it's just how fans react to it that differs (some fans shrug it off, some fans rant about it, most fans just discuss it calmly).

• Regarding the lack of Character Development Ruby has. One side is angry that she never got any even after four volumes and many moments of heartbreak and loss that should have at least hardened her personality, especially after the game-changing loss of Beacon, Penny and Pyrrha in Volume 3, and feel that the epotymous character isn't receiving the great amount of depth that other characters have, making her a Flat Character. Although there was one episode in Volume 4, "Remembrance", that showed Ruby having nightmares of her failing to save Pyrrha in time, they complained that in hindsight of that volume ending, that was the only episode where she showed a sense of trauma, and pin the blame on Spotlight Stealing Character Jaune, who gets more moments of him attempting to move on after Pyrrha's death. The other side believes that this lack of Character Development is done deliberately, to further highlight Ruby's "simple, honest soul" status, as well as making her a strong character for trying to keep a straight face through everything.

Also, there's this older example: there were definitely complaints about the scene, I just want to confirm whether people feel it was Broken Base level or just a case that some scenes are controversial and do draw criticism without being Broken Base examples.

• When Ruby manifests a new ability at the end of Volume 3, the fandom divided sharply over whether or not it was a good addition to the show. Some fans feel that the event came out of nowhere with inadequate foreshadowing, while others argue that there are enough subtle clues to suitably set up the event. Fans will criticize Ruby's power awakening, the killing off of the fan-favourite Pyrrha and and the use of Pyrrha's death to trigger Ruby's awakening. Other fans support the foreshadowing argument, the death of Pyrrha as a necessary part of the story, the awakening of Ruby's powers and the link between Ruby's awakening and Pyrrha's death. The two subjects are very controversial and heavily entwined in the fandom's consciousness because of they both happened in the story.

edited 3rd Aug '17 12:52:20 PM by Wyldchyld

Is the movie God's Not Dead an example of a cliche storm?

We have evil teacher, who is an smug atheist because of tragedy. Then, we get scumbag atheist who is a scumbag because atheists have no moral basis, and another who is snarky towards religion till she gets cancer. Then, we have strict Muslim dad who beats his daughter, and disowns her after discovering that she has converted to Christianity. Josh's story parallels that of the urban legends of Einstein in the classroom, and also the marine in the atheist professor class, which have apparently been circulated around a lot. And finally, atheist Professor dies by car crash while it is raining, and has a last-minute conversion (though I'm not sure if this is cliche, it is just that I feel like I have seen it before.) And finally, the film ends with concert, like most teen films.

I don't know if Unpublished Works qualifies, but before I put my page on there, I'm going to check the tropes actually are used properly.

This relates to a Script Fic based on The Catch (to be added to Unpublished Works soon)

• Alternate Continuity: This takes place in the same universe as The Catch but some events play out very differently. Let us count the ways:
  • Alice Vaughan's brother Tommy does not exist in this universe and is Adapted Out.
  • Alice was never in a relationship with Benjamin Jones (or his criminal persona Christopher Hall, and she was never in a relationship with Ethan Ward (who doesn't exist within this universe).
  • Alice is something of a Nice Girl in this continuity and more of The Fashionista.
  • Benjamin Jones is not a Con Man who robbed Alice of her savings, and instead is fairly similar to Saul Goodman.
  • Jimmy McGill (Saul Goodman) exists in this continuity, but the events of the episode entitled Better Call Saul did not happen, and although he's Saul Goodman here, it's taken a bit longer to get to being Saul.
  • Kim Wexler also exists in this continuity, but the Nice Girl tendencies are taken Up To Eleven.
  • An Expy of [[Characters/EleventhDoctor the Eleventh Doctor]] appears, but he's not a Human Alien, just a regular human called John, but the Ambiguously Bi tendencies don't appear, and Clara, Amy Pond and Rory don't appear in this universe.
  • Sara Lance appears in this universe, but shares nothing in common with her Legends of Tomorrow counterpart - this one is a very feminine badass who gets mistaken for a tomboy due to her interest in cars. She dresses excessively feminine, and hates looking tomboy-ish.
• Artistic License – Geography: Bedfordshire does not share a boundary with Stockport, Greater Manchester in Real Life, although this was probably done for Rule of Cool, Rule of Funny or Creator Provincialism.
• Broad Strokes: All of what happened in Better Call Saul seasons 1-3 did happen, up to Chuck's house fire, but not everything from The Catch happened.
• Casting Gag: Some of the actors from the Arrowverse play their same-named characters, especially Ashley Rickards.
• Continuity Reboot: It has no ties to the original 2016-2017 series apart from the name, and a few characters from the original show.
• Fake Guest Star: Averted. Even recurring characters get credited as Starring, but some get a Special Appearance By credit for contractual reasons.
• Girly Girl: Alice Vaughn behaves this way, and Sara Lance shows it in her personality and behavior, as well as fashion choices.
• Loads And Loads Of Characters: There's about 45 characters in total, split into groups on the characters sheet.
• Ms. Fanservice: Rosa Dillon, played by Ashley Rickards, although it's fairly tame by comparison to some other shows.
• Names The Same: Some characters have the same name as DC Comics characters but are quite different, with there being a Caitlin Snow, Sara Lance and Rosa Dillon, although that's as far as it goes.
• No Antagonist: There's no villain in Season 1, just the characters trying to cope with their own life issues. Weather could qualify, but it's not really an antagonist.
• No Communities Were Harmed: Blackhurst, a stand-in for Bury, Greater Manchester, England and Whitbeck, West Yorkshire, a stand-in for Bradford, Brighouse, Huddersfield, Batley and Birstall amalgamated into one city, appear in this work.
• Script Fic
• The Stations of the Canon: For The Catch everything involving Alice Vaughan and Mario Visconti from the pilot episode happened, as did the previous events of Better Call Saul up to season 3.

edited 4th Aug '17 11:32:54 AM by Merseyuser1

I had a question about Harsher in Hindsight, Hilarious in Hindsight, and "Funny Aneurysm" Moment.

From YMMV.The Legend Of Zelda Breath Of The Wild:

• The Great Plateau is a rather lonely place to begin with, with the Old Man and a few Koroks being the only friendly NPCs around, but it gets even lonelier when the former turns out to be Dead All Along.

Does it count if it takes place within the media (because that sounds like a Intended Audience Reaction), or does it only apply for stories/events that take place after it?

It's lonely with the area only having one inhabitant and the whole area is just ruins. Then it turns out that the only person you have seen is a ghost thus making it really even lonelier as you look at the area now.

Sounds like a legit example of Harsher in Hindsight to me.

edited 5th Aug '17 3:19:43 AM by Memers

From Literature.Unsong:

• Great Offscreen War: A hero called the Comet King led an invasion of Hell. It didn't work out.

Removed with "We did get to see that war in the end, so this trope no longer applies."

... Does the fact that it did apply at some point mean it be put back, with a bit that says that it was a Resolved Noodle Incident in the end?

...

Characters.Star Power:

"He was seriously out-of-date as to who was running his favorite bar in the Plennex system."

That's not Wrong Genre Savvy, but what is it?

edited 5th Aug '17 4:30:05 PM by Malady

On Great Offscreen War, the word "never" is used a lot. If it's shown one way or another, the trope doesn't apply.

I was going to post this in the Music section for Broken Base, but I saw that the trope was being cleaned up and I wanted to make sure if this qualified.

Electronic Music: Age restrictions at festivals. This is especially in the US, though somewhat due to the fact that the drinking laws there are one of the strictest of any country that has it legalized. People who are against it argue that barring youths from seeing their favorite musicians live forces them to miss out on what could've been the best day/days of their life, and also gives a negative connotation to festivals in general, making outsiders assume they are dangerous places. People for the practice, especially fans who are well over 21, think age restrictions make the experience much more quality and believe that younger attendees tend to get destructive at these events, and point out that venues that had no (or more laid-back) age restrictions have ended up in hot water or forced to shut down or move locations because of incidents occurring there, especially if they involved teenagers, while ones only allowing adults hardly, if ever, have gone controversial or shut down or relocated.

edited 5th Aug '17 7:43:03 PM by Ylana_Starscream

From The Tudors page (copied directly):

• Comic-Book Time: Season 1. The events in this season at a minimum cover the period from 1520-1530, including some events thay occurred before and after these years, but dates are never used and all adult characters avoid aging. This approach to time passing is likely to avoid the confusion of different storylines playing out of sync, and to avoid jarring time skips after almost every episode. Later seasons are much more centred around specific years.

Would Webcomic Time also be applicable too?

I've justed add to Punisher Noir:

• Alternate Continuity: Although the basic idea of Frank Csstle as a vigilante remains, this time he's in the Noir Universe and things play out very differently to the regular The Punisher, that it's irreconcilable with the main universe one. Justified in that this is also an Alternate Universe within Marvel.

(does this make sense)?

and in The Punisher Kills the Marvel Universe:

• Alternate Continuity: It's not really in continuity with the mainstream The Punisher due to the presence of aliens and other superheroes, and although it retains the dark and gritty feel, this is a separate continuity, as well as a one-shot story.

edited 6th Aug '17 4:09:49 AM by Merseyuser1

^^ Brought it up in the Broken Base cleanup thread.

I have an odd scenario for Early-Bird Cameo. For Both Pokemon Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon (and by circunstances the locked pages thread) and the Pokemon Anime.

It was revealed last night that the Pokemon Lycanroc will get a new (and exclusive to Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon) form, Dusk Form, in both the games and the anime. The games aren't released yet, but a short anime clip was revealed showing Ash's Rockruff evolving into Dusk Lycanroc in the next Japanese episode.

Now I have a few questions.

• Would the reveal itself count as Early-Bird Cameo towards both the games and anime?
• and Does the fact that Ash gets this pokemon itself count for this towards the games (which are due to release in November)?

edited 6th Aug '17 1:14:06 PM by MorningStar1337

"An Early-Bird Cameo is when characters appear earlier than their introduction in the same work."

A game is a different work from an anime. One's an adaptation of the other.

A promo or preview clip doesn't count for that, because it's outside the work itself. It's a teaser, not a cameo. Unless, of course, the clip that's shown appears in the work before the character is introduced, but then you just have that, and the clip is irrlevant anyway.