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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Bullman "The Juice is Loose." Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#199102: Jan 21st 2020 at 12:41:23 PM

Yes to Ghirahim, Obertorff, Aldezhor, and Falco.

No to Oliver.

@Beast: Yeah, I reserved discussion for it a while ago.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#199103: Jan 21st 2020 at 12:44:50 PM

[tup] Falco

Keeping my support for Oliver, since it has a real plot and that's all that's needed IMO.

captainmarkle Limited Patients from Behind you Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#199104: Jan 21st 2020 at 12:53:25 PM

EDIT: [tup] Falco

EDIT 2: changed word from "taxidermies" to "taxidermises".

Okay, so for my next EP, I bring us to the villain of the Outside Xbox D&D campaign, The Oxventure. This is the first of a few EPs for this work, but as it's the most recent work I thought I'd get it out of my way. I introduce to you the trapper known as "Vex".

Who is Vex? What does he do?

Vex (no relation to Critical Role) is a trapper who lives on the peak, and the Arc Villain of the "Peak Performance" adventure, described as the "great evil" disrupting the mountain's balance by the Wizard Binbag (don't ask about the name). While trappers/hunters are not automatically evil, as the Guild bard Dob notes just before their confrontation, Vex proves himself to be an extremely nasty piece of work; his traps such as snares, bear traps and spike pits are combined with necromantic spells, which cause the bodies of any being caught in them to rise, even if they are then broken out and then die of other causes like old age. The trapped individual's corpse then wanders to Vex and drops dead again, at which point he taxidermises them.

Vex's cabin is relatively recently built, but he has been operating for quite some time, as shown by how one of the victims of his traps (and by far the most personal) is Merilwen's wildcat companion, Simon; Simon was caught several years ago in a snare, but rescued by Merilwen (subsequently accompanying her until his death from natural causes). Upon his death and burial some time ago, the trap causes Simon to dig himself out, and wander to Vex, who subsequently skins him and turns him into a hat. Unfortunately, Simon is not the only victim of this, as shown by the relatively new cabin being utterly filled with taxidermy animals (some possibly from further back).

Upon confronting the Oxventurers Guild, Vex shows absolutely no remorse for his crimes and seems to practically relish the possibility of having sapient beings to taxidermy (he also grins when he realises that Dob caught himself in a spike pit imbued with the necromancy, but DM Johnny has to retcon this upon realising that Dob is still on the cabin roof). Upon seeing Merilwen in her wildcat form, he realises that she exactly resembles the now long-dead-and-skinned wildcat his trap caught, and seems to gloat at her shock and how she didn't stop him anyway, while also being angered that her rescue of Simon delayed him getting what he viewed as his rightful prize. His continued gloating, combined with the refusal to take the cat-hat off and amusement at a visibly grieving, horrified Merilwen, results in the Guild taking him head-on; in said fight, he reanimates a taxidermy bear to try and help him off the Guild.

Ultimately, however, the Guild deliver a very brutal beatdown to him, including entanglement, setting him alight, and shoving a melting rapier through his foot. The ensuing fight awakens a dragon on the mountain top, which is infuriated by the noise and arrives. Upon the Guild managing to pin the blame on Vex for the noise, the Dragon turns Vex into a Human Popsicle and then smashes his iced-up form with its tail, ending his terror.

Heinous Standard

By the standards of the arc, Vex easily eclipses every single other antagonist in the arc, including an Action Bomb creature of some sort (I'm still somewhat new to D&D), a wolf that was trapped by Vex, and an outright White Dragon (which, while grander in scale and size, has a Pet the Dog moment in sparing the party and also complimenting their Guest-Star Party Member Bismuth in the process). Vex also has a sadistic streak no other sapient creature in the arc possesses, and the entire party - even Token Evil Teammate Prudence to an extent (she still finds him hot to a degree, but not enough that she doesn't try killing him) - is shocked by his actions.

By the standards of the Oxventure? While any D&D campaign has a fair degree of Black Comedy (at least, as far as I can tell from the internet and real life), Vex isn't played for laughs and he's one of the few villains to be played for genuine Nightmare Fuel (as much as is possible in such a game, given the snark of the players - which noticeably they don't do much while dealing with him) in spite of his relatively limited resources. He's not got the same Take Over the World plans as Lady Liliana (the current Big Bad / Overarching Villain of the campaign), but he's a horrific man who delights in tormenting other beings and seems to view any rescue as "cheating" him out a prize he believes he's earned, even though his traps cause anyone who gets caught by them to come to him anyway. On top of that, he's possibly the most personal villain out of any in the group thus far, barring Corazon's Archnemesis Dad (more on him another time).

Mitigating Factors, i.e. Agency/Humour

No Freudian Excuse here. Vex possesses no agency issues, and no redeeming factors. The trapping isn't just him trying to make a living, he views himself as a borderline god. He isn't Laughably Evil, either (some of the other villains are, like the skeleton builders of Efelfrith's Chosen, but they're a group corrupted by blood magic so couldn't count regardless).

The only thing you could argue ignorance is his using the wood from the peaks for his cabin, which a tree, in talking with the druid, considers murder... but I think even without that, he's got no excuse.

Conclusion

I'm personally leaning "yes". For a minor Arc Villain, he's a total piece of shit and a legitimately horrifying villain for what we've got (think the Fan Zone Killer in Dying Light, who still stands despite Rais). As always, however, I look forward to your guys feedback.

I'll be interested to see how Lady Liliana plays out down the line, too (might do an effortpost for her soonish, to deal with her "thus far").

Edited by captainmarkle on Jan 21st 2020 at 9:17:30 AM

Trans rights are human rights. If you don't think that, please leave.
falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#199106: Jan 21st 2020 at 12:59:07 PM

[tup]Vex

Will have quite a few eps from a work I found up soon. It'll be an interesting source too.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#199107: Jan 21st 2020 at 1:06:00 PM

I was thinking Addled Addict, but dude seems too high-functioning to be one.

Sure to Vex. The word, BTW, is apparently "taxidermizes".

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#199108: Jan 21st 2020 at 1:10:39 PM

Functional Addict then ?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#199109: Jan 21st 2020 at 1:20:21 PM

And done:

Edited by ACW on Jan 21st 2020 at 4:23:32 AM

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#199110: Jan 21st 2020 at 1:20:50 PM

[tup] to Demise, Brendon, Ghirahim, von Obertorff, Aldezhor, Falco and Vex. Abstain on Oliver.

TiMBer1566 The Dragon from Virginia Since: Nov, 2018 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
The Dragon
#199111: Jan 21st 2020 at 1:21:17 PM

Yuuki Terumi now has his own character page

Edited by TiMBer1566 on Jan 21st 2020 at 5:21:40 AM

Bullman "The Juice is Loose." Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
DelphineTheDelphox I thought sharks were my friends. from The Alola Region Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: Squeeeeeeeeeeeee!
I thought sharks were my friends.
#199114: Jan 21st 2020 at 2:24:18 PM

Yay to Vex and the Commander. Nay to Olliver.

RIP KissAnime.
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#199116: Jan 21st 2020 at 2:39:54 PM

Okay, so I'm officially past Episode 7 of Season 4 of Mr. Robot. Mm...well that was rough. So Fernando Vera is dead, so I can finally talk about this guy.

Lemme get this out the way now: the whole heinous standard issue? Fuck that. For someone who's only an Arc Villain and appears in, what, five or six episodes? He does enough. Fernando Vera is a character who does not fit with the universe of Mr. Robot. He is nothing more than a computer virus fucking up the tone of the show—which is probably why a lotta people consider him The Scrappy. If this man was the Big Bad of some crime drama, or some action movie where he's the leader of a Dominican drug cartel, he'd fit right in. But everytime he's in this show, the tone shifts.

Now I didn't read the whole EP because of spoilers, but something I do need to point out is that Vera went back to the Dominican Republic and basically took it over. He slowly started taking control of all the gangs there, either eliminating the competition or converting them to his side. And after the Five/Nine attack, it was fairly easy to get the politicians in his pocket. He did this in only three months, and decided to head back to New York City because he was bored, because he felt like he had unfinished business with Elliot. And after kidnapping Krista, he basically wanted to use Elliot to take over all of New York, where he would become the city's biggest drug dealer and have everyone working for or with him. Ths is all on top of the fact that he raped Shayla, had his brother murdered, had Shayla Stuffed into the Fridge (I AM STILL UPSET ABOUT THAT just bugs me), killed his minion, DJ, for being an idiot, kidnapped Krista, threatened to kill her boyfriend, sexually molested her, threatened to have her raped in front of Elliot, and last but not least, forced Krista to emotionally break Elliot by having him remember that his father molested him as a child.

I do not care if his body count isn't in the double digits. I do not care if he isn't some Serial Killer and/or Serial Rapist. I. DO NOT. FUCKING. CARE. This is one of those quality over quantity villains folks. What he does has greater impact than how much he does.

"Oh...so you're saying he's a clear cut CM?"

No I am not.

Okay...I know MenInGreyToBlak explained this, but his final moments with Elliot give me pause. I'm not saying the show was attempting to sympathize Vera. I'm not saying I feel sorry for Vera after Krista stabbed him in the back. But y'all have to understand, Vera is not subtle about anything. At all. So when Elliot reveals that his father molested him and Vera suddenly softened up and began to emphatize with Elliot...I had to pause. This man broke Elliot, yes, but in Vera's eyes, he did it to free him, to unleash all the pain he had literally blocked out of his life. He wanted Elliot to turn that pain into power—just like what Vera did. Vera knew exactly what Elliot was going through and he didn't mock him or demean him or make him feel like any less of a person for it. Hell, Vera actually shed tears in front of Elliot.

And therein lies the problem. This man was so willing to comfort Elliot that he failed to pay attention to Krista; that's the only reason why she was able to kill him. Vera left her alone so he could go out and console Elliot in his time of grief. It's really hard for me to say that all of this was 100% manipulative.

ALL THAT BEING SAID...

You guys remember Captain Tosk? Three years ago, this same shit happened. We got this sociopathic Blood Knight of a soldier with a messed-up backstory who goes around constantly killing people left and right for his own pleasure. But mere seconds before he dies, he sheds tears in front of the mouse whose arm he cut off. It was never confirmed why this happened, and Pilot the Twat Tall cut his throat open, so now we'll never know.

Everything prior to Vera's final moments? Full-on CM. During his final moments? ...Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Alternative Character Interpretation is in full effect here. You can either argue that Vera was being genuine in front of Elliot, or you can argue that Vera chose to act sympathetic so Elliot would warm up to him, thus sealing their partnership. Vera himself even states he wanted to break Elliot, and after Elliot is broken, he tells him "You are the storm. And it's the rest of the world that needs to run for cover."

"So are you saying he's a CM or not?"

See...heh, okay. This is funny...this-this is funny. This is fucking hysterical. I was gonna vote [tdown]. I'm dead serious. But then I told myself, "Well...Vera outright said he's gonna break Elliot so he can own his ass. Vera does not care about what happened to Elliot; he exploited his past solely because they went through the same shit together. And because of that, it would make it that much easier for Vera to understand Elliot's pain, and therefore make it easier for Vera to win Elliot over."

So...

...

...You know what? Fuck it. [tup] Fernando Vera.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#199117: Jan 21st 2020 at 2:43:50 PM

You know what sure to Vera.

Edited by miraculous on Jan 21st 2020 at 2:44:07 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#199118: Jan 21st 2020 at 2:46:08 PM

Keeping my [tup] to Oliver and Fernando.

Also, Scraggle, I think there might be a minor error in your Demise write-up. He says his curse is on "those who share the blood of the goddess and the spirit of the hero", which seems to indicate Zelda's bloodline and Link's incarnations. But the way you phrased it makes it sound like the curse is on Link's bloodline.

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#199119: Jan 21st 2020 at 2:46:32 PM

[tup] to Commander Karl Falco and Vex.

Riley1sCool Since: Dec, 2014
#199120: Jan 21st 2020 at 2:48:43 PM

Yeah, keep Vera, I suppose.

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#199121: Jan 21st 2020 at 2:48:44 PM

So basically Vera took full possession of the Villain Ball and it made him a dumbass?

Eh, weak, but looking at your post, it seems like it was for evil intents, so I'll give a yes to him, as ABSURDLY stupid as that sounds. 2 questions:

  • So he's the only keeper from the series?
  • Does the current writeup (on the Drafts page) look okay?

For Demise, does this work?

When Demise finds himself bested by Link, Demise spitefully curses "those who share the blood of the goddess and the spirit of the hero" with an incarnation of his utter hatred, ensuring bloodshed for generations to follow.

Edited by ACW on Jan 21st 2020 at 5:51:29 AM

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Bullman "The Juice is Loose." Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#199124: Jan 21st 2020 at 3:04:35 PM

[up][up] Let's see what Scraggle thinks

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#199125: Jan 21st 2020 at 3:14:18 PM

I'm saying no to Vera, if he's not subtle about anything and he shows sympathy to someone he had previously been tormenting that's too much for me to ignore, I don't care if it's in his final moments.


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