During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
The Draftsman of Doom
Hearkening back to discussing the niches where we find monsters hiding, I guess my niche, for now, is online flash games.
Literally every monster I have had approved came from that medium so far. I may have one more to propose if I ever get around to it.
Feels good, don't it?
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
So how many families do we have where several members have played a CM?
- John Carradine played Heydrich (and I feel like at least 1 more).
- Son David played Rawley Wilkes.
- Son Keith played Martin Newman.
- Eric Roberts has played SEVERAL (Dark Danny; Munroe).
- I don't know if Walter Huston has any, but Walter's son John Huston, of course, played Noah Cross.
- John's daughter Anjelica Huston played the Grand High Witch.
- Danny Huston played Ludendorff.
- John's grandson Jack played Wickham.
EDIT: Kiefer Sutherland's played Doob and Corvus; does father Donald have any? I feel like he has to.
Michael Douglas also has one; what about Kirk?
Edited by ACW on Apr 10th 2019 at 7:08:06 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
Donald has president stone
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
And President Snow, if the film version counts.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Huh, nevermind then.
Edited by ACW on Apr 10th 2019 at 7:15:30 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
Uh the film version cares about his granddaughter.
Edited by miraculous on Apr 10th 2019 at 4:11:35 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Messenger from another dimension.
Cut Ardyn.
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
Just popped in to say ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to Ardyn. Damn, that backstory of his is messed up!
@ACW Wow, I didn't know that Eric Roberts was Emma Roberts' father.
As for acting families who have played CMs, has Richard Harris played a CM? His son Jared played Professor Moriarty in Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows.
"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Doesn't look like it.
Also, Alec Baldwin has a CM (The Juror). Do William, Adam, or Stephen have any?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Finished reading Fire & Blood. While what Wyl of Wyl did was Moral Event Horizont, i'm not sure he is heinous enough. Here is Maegor rewrite with one new crime.
- King Maegor I Targaryen, the third King of the Seven Kingdoms, was better known as Maegor The Cruel, and was the ancestor to both Aerys II and Joffrey. He usurped the throne from his nephew and promptly decapitated the one Archmaester who protested. As king, Maegor turned to brutal tactics to suppress the Faith of the Seven, even riding on his dragon Balerion to burn down a Sept with all worshippers inside, using archers to pick off stragglers. Maegor proceeded to commit massacre after massacre, even passing off the skulls of poor smallfolk in the wrong place at the wrong time as members of the Faith's warriors. Following capture of Wat the Hewer, a leader of the Poor Fellows, Maegor has his limbs cut off. Worse still was Maegor's attitudes towards family: Maegor killed his own nephew in combat, and then had his second nephew captured and tortured to death. When one of his wives gave birth to a "stillborn monstrosity," Maegor had her, everyone at the birth, and her entire family executed. When his favorite wife, Tyanna of the Tower, revealed she'd poisoned said wife from jealousy, causing the monstrosity, Maegor cut her heart out and gave it to the dogs. Obsessed with having an heir, Maegor forcibly married three women, including his own niece. After having the Red Keep constructed, Maegor also had the builders massacred to keep its secrets to himself. Monstrous, brutal, violent and cruel, Maegor's excesses drove all Westeros to unite against him behind his only surviving nephew, Jaehaerys, and Maegor is remembered to the present day as one of the greatest examples of an evil King.
Now, i will propose cutting of Hugh and Ulf. For these reasons. Here is their worse crimes in entry.
The soldiers who surrender are promptly beheaded and the two brutally sack the town, with people killed and women raped, including girls as young as eight and ten years old.
These crimes were commited by soldiers who weren't under their command, unlike Rorge's man at Saltpans. Actually, they didn't have any man under their command. While their betrayal led to the sack, it's stated that main reason was dead of Lord Ormund Hightower a commander in chief of Reach forces loyal to Aegon II in a battle for which Betrayers can't be blamed. They are less responsible than any lords like Hobert Hightower, Unwin Peake, Roger Corne and Jon Roxton who were under Ormund's command or prince Daeron.
Other their crimes are:
Burning town- Daeron used his dragon to burn Bitterbridge and Aemond burned Lord Harroway's town and used Vhagar to burn settlements and castles of Blacks.
Three Horseshoes- While it's brutal it's only one murder and victim isn't paragon of virtue himself.
Giving women to dragon- Our only in-universe source is Mushroom who wasn't eye-witness, so he is unreliable.
I vote cut
No to cutting on those grounds. Absolutely not.
@ACW Alec Baldwin has two (Mercury Rising Edit: is the other End of Edit).
@miraculous, @ACW The relationship Snow has with his granddaughter is not fleshed out that much that I think it’s fair to say the film version counts too, but I’m not gonna argue the point.
Bruce Willis and Demi Moore each have one and they were married. Does that count? EDIT: I take it back. The Jackal was cut. END OF EDIT
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Apr 10th 2019 at 8:04:33 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Why? These soldiers weren't under their command.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Lighty, can you elaborate? Or is Hegel mistaken?
Actually, Willis WAS a CM in Vice (2015).
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
They sack the town, and then set themselves up as the dictators over it. While the soldiers run rampant, it's only because of their selfish atrocity there. They then set up as tinpot caligulas over the town and go wild in tyranny. For two guys who came from nothing, it's especially impressive.
@ACW Oh okay, then it still applies. Unless married or formerly married couples aren’t the same thing.
I haven’t seen The Jackal, but why was he cut?
Standards.
Goku Black
Wouldn't Hurt a Child if I remeber.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
@Lighty, @miraculous Oh I see. Yeah that’ll do it.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Ah, I say keep the duo then.
As for married/previously married couples, I hadn't been thinking of them, but sure, why not.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Does it matter? That is possibly the most useless bit of trivia.
"Useless trivia?"
...I don't know how to tell you this, but I think you might be on the wrong website.
It's not important for this thread. "Who's the CM acting couple" is not conducive to any discussion here
Could just be because they have three daughters, but the two still clearly get along despite not being together for years. Funny how each one was also in a movie where they fought one of Alec Baldwin’s CMs as well (Annie Vs. The Teacher and Jeffries Vs. Kudrow).
@Lighty We were trying to figure out if a couple or former couple counted as family or not so we could decide if they fit the mold of family members who each played a CM.
@Imperial Haha. Very true.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Apr 10th 2019 at 8:44:16 AM
I agree Ardyn should be cut. A bit sad to see him cut, but he's still a great villain either way and this development isn't totally out of left field at least. The DLC just further developed stuff we already knew.
Edited by TommyFresh on Apr 10th 2019 at 3:45:05 AM