Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
PS: Wet, no rush obviously, but I think you also have Katherine to write up whenever.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Yeah, I know MGD I think it was also has one more candidate, but I think I told him to just go ahead if Eruptor doesn't do his soon.
EDIT: Also, FWIW Pan's Labyrinth novelization actually is titled Pan's Labyrinth: The Labyrinth of the Faun (Ravok I think you said that's the one?
Edited by ACW on Jun 27th 2023 at 6:34:16 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Kim'Dael.
Song!Afton.
Harry.
Quarry.
RIP Toriyama
Yep that's the one ACW, apologies!
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Sorry if I am bothering everyone but I have no idea if this is ok to post on the thread but there is one candidate I am just super mixed about making an EP for and I am pretty bad at this part to be very honest. That character is Thanos from the GOTG game. The one thing I was never confident about was probably the lack of characterization of him. I could see one saying heinousness but I'll get to that in a sec. I say this since there are many descriptions and characters such as Drax and Gamora saying what type of guy he is and yes he did show to laugh whenever he appeared such as Drax's mind as well as one dialogue when going through the dimension thing.
I have no idea if it's enough for all of you in my eyes but that's all I'm gonna say. I also did this courage because of this quote: "Others may be intimidated if you come across as perfect. Mistakes show your human side. When you show you're capable, and yet still relatable as a human being who makes mistakes, people tend to like you more. Meaning, people want to see you are intelligent and capable, but that you aren't perfect." Apologize if it's off-topic.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Forgot to say this but he does pass heinousness for causing the Galactic War, baited Drax's squad by sending a Chitauri decoy, just so he would distract Drax and murdered his people, as well as his wife and daughter, which was something that haunted Drax to this day. Not to mention he destroyed Xandar and murdered most of the Xandarians in the past. In this case I'll make the EP right now.
Edited by Echidna on Jun 27th 2023 at 7:26:00 AM
Not the Eye
Don’t know about heinousness, but it does sound like characterization shoudn’t be a problem.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Eh, we get characterization, he has an evil laugh...that's probably enough for me anyway.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Gentle Laborer
Kim, Harry and Quarry
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
HUX
Alright, time for possibly the most exhausting EP I've had in a long time.
What is the work? Pathologic is one of the most underrated games of all time and a fantastic lesson on how to create a surreal but understandable narrative with huge amounts of Mind Screw. In a country ruled by the Powers That Be, there exists a small town governed by three rivaling families—The Kains, the Olgimskys and the Saburovs—each of them more peculiar than the other, and to make matters worse, the mysterious Sand Plague is ravaging the town and killing everything in its wake.
It's up to your Player Character to find the origins of the disease and a cure to save the town. Simple enough, right? Well... Not everything is what it seems. And why is it exhausting, you may ask? Pathologic is an incredibly long and stressing game, with hundreds—if not thousands—of dialogue trees and three different campaigns that you must play if you want to understand the story in its entirety.
- The Invisible Enemy/Bachelor Route: You are Daniil Dankovsky, a narcissistic and vain "thanatologist" who visits the town in hopes of meeting Simon Kain, the supposedly immortal elder of the Kain dynasty.
- Sacrifice/Haruspex Route: You are Artemy Burakh, a borderline Sociopathic Hero on the run from the authorities for being the prime suspect in the murder of his own father. Aided by "Big" Vlad Olgimsky, Artemy must clear his name and discover the identity of the real murderer.
- The Path of Logic/Changeling Route: You are Clara, the amnesiac adopted daughter of Alexander and Katerina Saburov, who finds herself being stalked by an Evil Twin who shouldn't exist.
For a game with an Ensemble Cast, Blue-and-Orange Morality is surprisingly the norm and most antagonistic characters are either too complex or genuinely want to ensure the future of their respective factions. However, there is a single villain who stands out as an irredemeable jerkass.
Who is he? Introduced in the Bachelor Route, Var was a snake charmer with the Ace of Diamonds Caravan, a cult/gang that disguised itself as a traveling circus—the Caravan was responsible for kidnapping "the best" children and disfiguring them to serve as spectales for their carnival. When the Powers That Be caught wind of their activities and began to crack down on them, Var had his back broken with an iron bar, leaving him permanently hunchbacked. Fleeing to the town, Var amassed wealth by joining the criminal underworld as an usurer, while also performing other illegal activities to satisfy his greed, such as disposing of bodies for anyone willing to pay.
The true extent of Var's cruelty comes in the form of Willow, Var's adopted daughter—Var kidnapped her when she was only a child and molded her into the perfect exotic dancer, murdering her biological father when he tried to rescue her. It's made pretty clear that Var is a total creep who lusts after Willow and wants her for himself. Initially presented as a worried father looking for his missing daughter, Var tasks the Bachelor with finding her—as it turns out, Willow is trying to isolate herself from Var, and exposes him as an abusive and violent nutjob who would gladly butcher the owners and patrons of the pub that gave her sanctuary. Things go horribly wrong when Var learns from the Bachelor that Willow died in the middle of the epidemic.
Var begins leading the "Exterminators" and arms them with molotovs, and they begin brutally killing every single infected person on their path. Deeming the Termitary—a giant factory that houses five thousand workers—to be the origin of the Sand Plague, Var attempts to burn the place to the ground with all of the workers still inside. He's quickly disposed of by the Bachelor, but his Exterminators unfortunately continue to be a threat for the rest of the game.
While Var doesn't appear in the Changeling Route, he returns as an uneasy ally of the Haruspex in the latter's route—the Haruspex Route reveals that, without the involvement of the Bachelor, Var was captured by the authorities and all but stated to have been executed for his heinous crimes.
Mitigating Factors? This is where things get interesting: The Changeling Route has Anna Angel—Var's former accomplice—believing that Var raised Willow to "atone for his sins". Not only is Anna not the best source of information, but the game itself portrays Var as an obsessive and jealous lunatic who was sexually attracted to his own adopted daughter and decided to blame the entire town for taking his favorite object away.
Var is surprisingly helpful to the Haruspex when they first meet, even offering him free medicine—the small Pet the Dog moment doesn't stop Var from calling the Haruspex a "parasite", and this potential redeeming quality vanishes when you take in consideration that the Exterminators are allowed to kill the Haruspex if he ends up getting infected.
Now... I should really talk about The Reveal: If the player manages to secure the path to the Golden Ending, the entire world of Pathologic is revealed to be a Recursive Reality: the town is a literal sandbox, its citizens are stuffed toys and the Powers That Be are nothing but two kids "playing plague"—Sand Plague, get it?—the kids were surprised to discover that their "magical sandbox" could give life to toys and came up with a story where three "heroes" arrived in the town to combat a disease. This doesn't affect Var's agency in the slighest, all the toys are fully sapient and don't seem to be aware of the reality outside the sandbox—To them, the Powers That Be are simply a secretive authoritarian government.
To make things more interesting, if the player delves further into this path, we get to have a final chat with the "Makers"—while initially the ones responsible for the Video Game Tutorial, the Executor and the Tragedian finally decide to stop with the charade and speak directly to the player, they are fully-aware that Pathologic is a video-game and are basically stand-ins for the developers, revealing that they exist in a reality above the Powers That Be. I love this game.
Heinous? Var is a minor villain with an attempted bodycount in the thousands, I'd say he passes, but let's take the time to explore the Arc Villain of each route, their crimes and why they don't count.
- Bachelor Route: Inquisitor Aglaya Lilich, a direct subordinate of the Powers That Be and a vicious Knight Templar with a serious vendetta against the Kains. She usurps control of the town from the ruling families and acts as a despotic tyrant, using torture and executions to eliminate any resistance against her. Aglaya genuinely likes the Haruspex and, in the Changeling Route, makes multiple attempts to save his life.
- Haruspex Route: Foreman Oyun, the murderer of Artemy's father, is pretty much a Noble Demon. Oyun fully believes that Being Evil Sucks and the Changeling Route even gives him his own Redemption Equals Death moment.
- Changeling Route: The Dark Sister, Clara's Evil Doppelgänger, is an interesting case. She's the personification of the Sand Plague itself, spreading the disease throughout the town and killing 400 people in one single day. Here's the issue: Not only is the Dark Sister Affably Evil, she also doesn't really exist—the game implies she's a Tulpa accidentally created by Clara's desire to have a scapegoat for her lies.
Conclusion?
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Jun 28th 2023 at 9:27:40 AM
Ok then. Here we go I guess after watching the playthrough of the game.
What's the Work?
Guardians of the Galaxy is a 2021 video game based on a Marvel superhero group created by Eidos Montreal. It follows the group who attempt to stop a large cult from setting free a certain entity that would destroy the entire galaxy.
Who Is He? What Has He Done?
Thanos is an antagonist in the game. Before the events, he was a genocidal warlord obsessed with Lady Death and caused a Galactic War killing trillions in the process. He even went far as to wipe out all life in the universe after allying with the Chitauri race. He attacks Drax's homeworld slaughtering many in the Katathian village including Drax's wife and daughter leaving Drax scared for his life.
He then goes to Xandar and wipes out the planet and nearly all the Xandarians. Everything changed when Gamora leaves him and joined the Resistance to defeat her father's terror leading to his defeat. Drax however managed to locate Thanos in the Black Quadrant and both went into a brawl killing the person who killed his family. Although Drax defeated Thanos he has doubts whether or not he's truly gone in the galaxy.
Even after his presumed death his actions and terror still leave a very big impact on everyone including Drax. His illusion appears in Drax's head laughing at him and the team goes in to fight him defeating Thanos easily. But then more clones of Thanos appear overwhelming them leading to them being defeated and bringing all of them to the outside world.
Mitigating Factors
The first I should talk about is his characterization and screen time. Even though he may not appear much in the description of the characters and other things as well as his appearances such as his laugh and one dialogue I think we have enough description and evidence to know Thanos's personality and the type of guy he is. Also, I think we can count his personality in his boss fights on Drax's mind. Thanos is a ruthless and sadistic guy who leaves a super big impression on everyone even his supposed death.
His "care" for his adopted daughters is pure bull, considering that he only trained both of them to be assassins. And Gamora recounted how Thanos burnt the dolls that she and Nebula used to have when she was a child since Thanos claimed it was teaching them "attachment". Even his excuse for his actions is simply to appease Lady Death which is nonsense and proves it's merely out of fantasm rather than anything but a twisted motivation for all the insane atrocities such as the near omnicide goal he created. So all in all this version of Thanos lacks any of the redeeming traits of the MCU and comic book versions if you ask me.
Heinous Standards
I say he makes it. Thanos' actions are far-reaching in the entire game, given that he caused the Galactic War, baited Drax's squad by sending a Chitauri decoy, just so he would distract Drax and murdered his people, as well as his wife and daughter, which was something that haunted Drax to this day. Not to mention he destroyed Xandar and murdered most of the Xandarians in the past. Pretty much the Universal Church of Truth and Raker's problems across the galaxy wouldn't even exist without Thanos. And yes, this is what Xander looked like
during one of the cutscenes in the game when the Guardians talked to the Worldmind during the ninth mission. He also plans on exterminating life in the entire galaxy showcasing how much of a sadist he is. Even after his supposed death Thanos still leaves a very big impact on the pilot including characters like Raker, Gamora, and even Drax to this day.
Final Verdict
I'll leave it up to you as always. I hope I did well-explaining everything.
Edited by Echidna on Jun 28th 2023 at 12:21:37 PM
Lord of Hell
to Quarry. For Telltale Thanos? Eh...I remember bringing him up before, and he was deemed that he didn't really do enough onscreen to qualify, but we're much more lax on that now, and he's still a genocidal maniac trying to wipe out all life in the universe. I'll give a tentative to him for now.
Edited by Awesomekid42 on Jun 27th 2023 at 9:17:34 AM
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Alright I'm back now here's my pending:
- Scourge is the sadistic servant of Unicron who sold out his planet to the dark god to be devoured in exchange for power. Leading Unicron's Terrorcons, Scourge leads a brutal campaign across countless worlds, wearing trophies from his murders and leaving the planets to be consumed by Unicron. Seeking to acquire the Transwarp Key to allow his gluttonous master freely travel through creation, Scourge assaults the Maximal's home world, killing their leader in the process. Arriving on Earth, Scourge corrupts the Maximal Airrazor with sadistic glee, forcing her own comrades to kill her. Reassembling the Transwarp Key, Scrouge attempts to use it to summon Unicron to Earth to consume it. With a body count of billions, Scourge compliments his master's omnicidal gluttony with unbridled sadism and malice.
- Katherine Corven is a cold calculating sociopath with an enjoyment for manipulating others. Arrested for poisoning her husband, Katherine manipulates her lover Raymond Worrall into suicide to frame Father Brown and to have him executed. In her second appearance, Katherine threatens Vivian Hope to take the fall for her crimes by threatening her grandchildren. Katherine then plays sadistic mind games against Father Brown, killing a woman who had been a part of her imprisonment and attempts to incriminate Father Brown as the one responsible for her false imprisonment. Kidnapping Brown's close friend Bunty, Katherine orchestrates a setup where he would have to shoot her to save Bunty's life although secretly plotting to disguise Bunty as herself to make Father Brown shoot the wrong person and to have the priest arrested for the murder of his friend. Refusing to repent even when dying, Katherine's smug sadism reflects the darkness of her heart.
It's very late so I am tired writing these out lmao. How do they look though folks?
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
...Phenomenal
for Var and tentatively for Thanos.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Var
to Var and Thanos
Hey I’ve got a candidate or two from a movie that I just saw called AKA so let’s talk about it.
What’s The Work?
AKA is a French action crime film released on Netflix of this year. The premise is that Adam Franco, a multi-identity special ops agent working on behalf of the French government, is sent to a mission to assassinate the Sudanese terrorist, Moktar Al Tayeb, where he infiltrates the gang allying themselves with Al Tayeb headed by Victor Pastore so that he may get closer to Al Tayeb for him to kill. That said Al Tayeb isn’t my candidate, but rather it’s Adam’s boss, Kruger.
Who Is He? What Has He Done?
Kruger is a commander within the French Government who recruits Adam Franco upon learning that he killed a pedophile that raped and killed his brother. Kruger would mold Adam into becoming his personal assassin sending him out on missions to kill anyone who Kruger deems a threat him no matter how innocent they actually are.
One example has Kruger send Adam to Lybia to assassinate an innocent journal who knows of his corruption, resulting in her deaths and the deaths of all her captor, and since Adam has been working for Kruger for about 20 years, this leads to the deaths of countless people under Kruger’s direction.
When the supposed terrorist, Al Tayeb, is spotted in Paris, Kruger assigns Adam to infiltrate Victor Pastore’s gang so that he may get close to Al Tayeb to kill him due to Victor and Tayeb being allies, where Kruger holds a gang member’s teenage son force said guy to let Adam take his place where Kruger then keeps the gangster and his son imprisoned at a black sight.
Adam would eventually reach Tayeb prepared to kill him only to learn from Tayeb that the Government Kruger works for has been severely depleted Tayeb’s home country Sudan of their resources leaving his people in severe poverty and when Tayeb has invited to Paris to discuss terms assassins sent by the French Government came in to kill Al Tayeb with them killing his wife and several others while putting his kid daughter in critical condition, where Tayeb allied with Victor so that he could raise money to fund his daughter’s surgery.
It’s also revealed it was Kruger’s idea to lure Al Tayeb to Paris so that his assassins can kill Tayeb and his family with Adam not denying that he may have been one of the assassins and the real reason why Kruger sent Adam to kill Tayeb is not out of a supposed terrorist attack Tayeb is concocting but to cover French Government’s involvement, including Kruger’s own, of their attack against Tayeb’s family.
It would also be revealed that Kruger send two teams of commandos to kill everyone in in Adam has associated himself with during his undercover operation, with one commando team sent to kill Tayeb, his injured daughter in a coma, his cousin Pee Wee, and even Adam himself, while sending another team to wipe out Victor’s whole gang, with Kruger himself killing the gangster and his teenaged son he was holding prisoners for days.
Kruger’s men were able to kill Tayeb, Victor, and countless others, but Pee Wee, Adam, and Tayeb’s daughter were able to survive Kruger’s onslaught where they expose the corruption of Kruger’s boss, and the French Government, while the police were able to detain Victor’s step-children.
To tie up loose ends and hide his own involvement, Kruger attempts to kill Adam, and Victor’s step-children, Hélène and Jonathan, the latter of which is only 8-years old. Luckily for Adam, he is able to defend himself from Kruger’s attacks before finally killing Kruger thus saving himself, Helene, and Jonathan from Kruger’s rampage.
Freudian Excuse? Redeeming Qualities?
All that’s known about Kruger is that he recruited Adam into becoming his assassin when he was 15-years old after Adam got arrested for killing the guy that raped his brother. That’s all and it’s never shown that Kruger cared for Adam beyond using him to kill anyone he wants and even sending his commandos to kill Adam and those he came into contact with before attempting to kill Adam himself without hesitation or remorse.
He does have a superior he has to answer to Sénateur Marconnet, but he’s not genuinely loyalty to Marconnet only following the senators orders because Marconnet constantly threatens to expose Kruger’s corruption and ruin his career if Kruger doesn’t do what he wants and Kruger doesn’t even care that Marconnet’s crimes are exposed being only concern on killing Adam so nothing can be traced back to Kruger, making it clear Kruger only cares about himself and his own self-interests.
Heinousness
Okay so Adam is a hitmen whose killed people for the French Government under Kruger’s direction, Al Tayeb is a supposed terrorist responsible for attacks on French soil, which proves to be false and also has a wife and daughter he loves, Victor Pastore is a crime boss in France but seems to care for his step-children, there's Victor's rival Amet but he doesn't do much to stand out other than kidanpp Victor's step-child for ransom, and while Senator Marconnet is Krugers boss who screwed the Sudaneses over and wanted Al Tayeb dead he’s briefly shown spending time with his family and he wears a ring implying he’s Happily Married.
That said Kruger is The Heavy and Marconnet’s Dragon-in-Chief who sets the whole plot in motion by planting Adam into Victor’s gang while assigning two people, Cisko and Mona, to help Adam in his operation, making him indirectly responsible for Cisko and Mona’s deaths when the two get killed during the operation, holds and ganger and his son prisoner so Adam can take the former’s place before killing them both, and sends commandos to kill Adam, Tayeb, Victor, and all their associates to tie up all loose ends, with Kruger having no problems killing children should they get in his way, with one being in a coma and another being only 8-years old.
Not only that but Kruger is responsible for turning Adam into his personal hitman and using him to kill countless people for 20 years, and it was his idea to lure Al Tayeb and his family to Paris so that his assassins can kill them all, not to mention Kruger’s commandos he sent to kill Adam and his associates showing that he’s corrupted numerous people into being his killers thus leading to many people dead under Kruger’s direction. There may have one other candidates I’m also considering but overall I think Kruger does more than enough to stand out.
Final Verdict?
I will leave that decision for you guys to decide.
Edited by G-Editor on Jun 27th 2023 at 4:09:30 AM
Here's the tree, so we can see Lighty's writeup for Unicron and Wet's for Scourge:
- Rise of the Beasts:
- Scourge is the sadistic servant of Unicron who sold out his planet to the dark god to be devoured in exchange for power. Leading Unicron's Terrorcons, Scourge leads a brutal campaign across countless worlds, wearing trophies from his murders and leaving the planets to be consumed by Unicron. Seeking to acquire the Transwarp Key to allow his gluttonous master freely travel through creation, Scourge assaults the Maximal's home world, killing their leader in the process. Arriving on Earth, Scourge corrupts the Maximal Airrazor with sadistic glee, forcing her own comrades to kill her. Reassembling the Transwarp Key, Scrouge attempts to use it to summon Unicron to Earth to consume it. With a body count of billions, Scourge compliments his master's omnicidal gluttony with unbridled sadism and malice.
- Unicron, the great destroyer, is a sadistic entity the size of a planet who subsists on entire worlds. Opening the film consuming the world of the Maximals as he has countless other planets, Unicron often dispatches the mighty Terrorcons to kill at will and prepare worlds for his coming. Seeking to devour Earth, Unicron also tortures his chief minion Scourge as a reminder to never fail him again.
Also, since we allow leeway for loose canon/continuity, could we consider Lori Spengler to count now? I would get if that argument doesn't work though since both movies are the same franchise despite the different timelines/universes.
The Moron
That's... not what that means at all future. The movies are the same continuity with no loose canon. Even then, disregarding the "Groundhog Day" Loop, she's only attempting to kill one person.
Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Jun 27th 2023 at 10:49:50 AM
The Ultimate Lifeform
The limit for Effort Posts is 4 per page correct? I swear that is what the rule is but for the life of me I can't find where it says that in the rules.
"Us weirdos have to stick together!"
It's 4 EP each page so you correct.
Edited by Echidna on Jun 27th 2023 at 11:00:47 AM
The Moron
It's part of rule number one: "There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle
The Ultimate Lifeform
Okay, thanks. Sorry to take up space I just couldn't find the damn thing to save my life... I have an effort post cooking right now but I don't want to leave it at the bottom of the page so I will wait until the next one.
to Kruger, Var, and a slightly tepid to Thanos BTW.
Edited by ForgoLight on Jun 27th 2023 at 8:05:44 AM
"Us weirdos have to stick together!"
@STAR Yeah. Different timeline, but the continuity is still constant though. Makes sense—and yeah, despite racking up a big body count throughout each loop, her actions are still underwhelming even with her setting Tombs free having more of an impact there.
Here's the reverse of the tree by the way since I still don't think we settled on who goes first:
- Rise of the Beasts:
- Unicron, the great destroyer, is a sadistic entity the size of a planet who subsists on entire worlds. Opening the film consuming the world of the Maximals as he has countless other planets, Unicron often dispatches the mighty Terrorcons to kill at will and prepare worlds for his coming. Seeking to devour Earth, Unicron also tortures his chief minion Scourge as a reminder to never fail him again.
- Scourge is the sadistic servant of Unicron who sold out his planet to the dark god to be devoured in exchange for power. Leading Unicron's Terrorcons, Scourge leads a brutal campaign across countless worlds, wearing trophies from his murders and leaving the planets to be consumed by Unicron. Seeking to acquire the Transwarp Key to allow his gluttonous master freely travel through creation, Scourge assaults the Maximal's home world, killing their leader in the process. Arriving on Earth, Scourge corrupts the Maximal Airrazor with sadistic glee, forcing her own comrades to kill her. Reassembling the Transwarp Key, Scrouge attempts to use it to summon Unicron to Earth to consume it. With a body count of billions, Scourge compliments his master's omnicidal gluttony with unbridled sadism and malice.
The Moron
Future, again buddy, we've asked you to knock off the thing you've got with trees. Regardless of who goes first, was there any reason to post the tree twice? This seems to happen every time there's a tree for a work you like and I can personally say it's long since gotten tiring.
ACW and I had this talking point about who would go first and I thought having each as a visual would help figure that out. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
Alright guys just a heads up, it's late where I live and I'm about to catch a multi train journey back home, the situation's ambiguous atm so Idk what to expect from it. Genuinely though thanks for all the messages, also thanks for the offer Lighty to do Scourge's writeup but I'll get to it once I'm back home.
Yes to Quarry and Harry (weirdly not the first Serial Killer in a 2006 film with a fascination for Eye Scream.
Edited by WetFlannels on Jun 27th 2023 at 11:30:34 AM
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.