Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Stalin, Custer and Kent
to Stalin and Custer and big to Kent
Edited by Silverblade2 on Feb 18th 2023 at 9:22:39 PM
Not the Eye
to Stalin, Custer and Colin
Edited by EmperorGeode on Feb 18th 2023 at 12:35:31 PM
Goku Black
Stalin, Custer and easy yes To Kent.
Rudra, Mombi, Stalin, Custer and Kent
I missed the effortpost and am now afraid to ask if it was for that atrocious video-game.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Thankfully, it was him from Little Big Man
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Stalin, Custer, Kent
Alright writeup time, would folks prefer the rewrite I did before or a new one?
Original Rewrite:
- Mystic Force: Octomus the Master is an ancient demonic entity who is the supreme ruler of the Underworld. Prior to the story, Octomus orchestrated the war between the magical lands and the underworld before being sealed away, brainwashing the warrior Leanbow into his loyal soldier Koragg. Seeking to escape his prison, Octomus chooses as his vessel one of his former followers who tries to repent, and bursts out of his living body to escape. Unleashed on the surface world, Octomus brainwashes Nick Russell and has him lay waste to the village of Rootcore. While the rangers were distracted from Nick's rampage, Octomus has Sculpin and Black Lance attack the city of Briarwood while he personally destroys the Mystic Mother's palace. When Leanbow and Daggeron investigate the carnage, Octomus kills them both and drops their bodies in front of the rangers with sadistic glee before warping time itself into a desolate future where all life has been wiped out by him. Motivated only by inflicting suffering on innocent beings, Octomus stands out as one of most depraved foes in the entire franchise.
New one:
- Power Rangers Mystic Force: Octomus The Master is the eldritch leader of the Underworld responsible for the orchestration of the Great War between his forces and the magic lands before being sealed away, twisting the warrior Leanbow into his soldier Koragg. To escape his prison, Octomus uses one of his followers who tries to repent as his vessel and kills him by bursting out of his living body to escape. Unleashed at last, Octomus brainwashes the Red Ranger Nick Russell and has him lay waste to the village of Rootcore while also having Sculpin and Black Lance attack the city of Briarwood. During the carnage, Octomus lays siege to the Mystic Mother's palace, also killing Leanbow and Daggeron in which he drop their bodies in front of the rangers with sadistic glee. Octomus then warps the rangers to the future he creates, with all life extinguished and the universe left as a desolate husk. Motivated only by making innocent beings suffer, Octomus' depravities make him one of the worst in the franchise while being one the most personal.
Edited by WetFlannels on Feb 18th 2023 at 8:35:45 PM
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
to the evil Man of Steel, Custer, Kent
Stalin, Custer and easy yes To Kent
Yes to Mombi, Stalin, Custer and Kent,
Here is Cora write up, but I think I will rework the Marvel Wastelanders entry to create a tree:
- Marvel's Wastelanders:
- Old Man Star-Lord: Brandon Best was Doctor Doom's press agent during the supervillain takeover of Earth. After Doom is injured by the Hulk, Best imprisons the weakened Doom in a prison and takes his resources, turning the Midwestern United States into his personal fiefdom. Best has his subjects believe Doom is in charge when in actuality Best is the true ruler. Best forces his subjects to work in mines and factories for little pay and extracts exorbitant taxes from them. Best has his Doombots kill anyone who protests his dictatorship. Best also takes people who displease him and puts them on Deer on Spear, a broadcast shown to his subjects where Kraven the Hunter brutally kills people and then puts the bodies on trees as a warning.
- Doom: Cora is a seemingly friendly and goofy robotic helper that is secretly a psychopath. Cora is a Rigellian Recorder who is saved by Star-Lord from hostile aliens. Star-Lord takes Cora to Earth and while Cora helps Star-Lord defeat Kraven the Hunter and his master Brandon Best, she really scouting Earth for colonization by the Rigellian Empire. Cora eventually abandons Star-Lord and allies with a newly freed Doctor Doom. While Cora is assisting Dr. Doom in his quest to attain the Cosmic Cube, she is actually bidding her time. After Doom regains the Cosmic Cube and kills the Hulk, Cora reveals her true colors. Cora has decided that humanity is unworthy of survival and will be destroyed to make way for the Rigellian colonizers. Cora hijacks a Cold War-era nuclear stockpile and aims it at Dr. Doom, destroying the West Coast of the US to achieve her goal.
I think those are only two keepers from this podcast series, considering how unimpressive Red Skull and Shadow King are.
Speaking of podcasts, apparently, Realm (formerly Serial box), lost the rights to the Marvel characters and they had to take down the podcasts Thor: Metal Gods, Black Widow: Bad Blood, Jessica Jones: Playing With Fire, and Black Panther: Sins of the King, which are no longer available for purchase. I can still listen to them because I already bought them, but I think we could still keep those entries up. This is like the internet version of a book going out of print. They still have their DC comics podcasts though.
Edited by Overlord on Feb 18th 2023 at 5:11:53 AM
I mean it's TV tropes policy to keep up pages and entries from works even if they're removed from circulation
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
to Joseph Stalin, General George Custer and Colin Kent (been looking forwards to that one).
Has my Jiang writeup been saved somewhere? I can't access the Drafts history.
Here's my write-up for the Cyberia 2 baddy. Thanks for the reminder @ACW. 
- Cyberia 2: Dr. John Corbin is the ambitious scientist responsible for the creation of the nano-toxin bioweapon. When the FWA leadership plans to use it to wipe out the Rebel Underground Corbin personally selects a settlement with a strong rebel presence for a test run, expecting a causality rate of 70%. Despite working for the FWA, Corbin has no loyalty towards them, caring only about his scientific legacy and how the nano-toxin will make him the master of every living thing.
Ultimate Moral Compass
- Haji Muhammad, one of Captain Syer’s top ranked soldiers, leads several village massacres in his quest to help the British colonize Malaysia. Humiliated by Mat Kilau at a jetty marketplace while trying to oppress the villagers, Muhammad later leads an assault on the marketplace, killing countless people there. Seeking information on Kilau’s rebellion, Muhammand abuses Wahid’s pregnant wife for information, allowing Toga to kill her for refusing to cooperate.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Toga goes first, he plays a bigger role than Muhammad
Edited by therealjackieboy on Feb 18th 2023 at 9:04:16 AM
"No running in the halls!"
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Which should go first: Haji or Toga?
Edited by ACW on Feb 18th 2023 at 12:02:20 PM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Stalin, Custer and Kent, Chained echoes guys
The Ultimate Lifeform
I know it's a bit early, but would anyone be willing to look at my writeup for Fanfic!Odalia?
- A Blight on Bonesborough: Odalia Blight is Amity's abusive and controlling mother, who shows herself to be just as vile as in canon. Making sure to personally maintain absolute control over the lives of her children, Odalia ultimately drives Amity to run away after forcing her to get rid of all of her prized possessions after getting an A instead of an A+. When Odalia discovers Vee disguised as Amity, she locks her up in Amity's room which has been repurposed into a prison cell. Vee eventually escapes, upon which Odalia promptly initiates a manhunt to track her down to put "Amity" back under her thumb. When Philip Wittebane arrives at the Blight residency, he makes a deal with Odalia, offering her uncontested ownership over the Boiling Isles for exploitation and development in exchange for providing him Abomitons with which to finalize his plan for the genocide of Witch and Demonkind, a deal that Odalia happily accepts despite knowing all of the details and leaving her husband in the dark. Odalia then actively aids Philip in his attempted genocide by using an Oracle Orb for prophecizing exactly what he needs to do to stay ahead, and upon finding out that her daughter has a Witch girlfriend in Luz, Odalia declares that she is going to have Luz killed, and replaced with a rich boy of her chosing.
to Stalin, Custer and Kent
Not the Eye
One from DC i am not sure about, but figured is worth a try.
Who is pre-crisis Kanjar Ro?
Delon (dictator) of planet Dhal of the Antares sistem, enemy of justice league of America, ugly and far less famous cousin of Marchion Ro. For years Kanjar has waged a four way war with rulers of other 3 planets of the Antares. Luring Justice League into a trap and paralizing their bodies, Kanjar makes them work for him by paralizing whole earth. Only 3 other rulers speaking his name at the same time could free them. Kanjar has league capture other rulers and makes them incapable of speech, saying he would free earthlings only after league swears to leave him alone. Luckily league has Recorded voice of other rulers, beating Kanjar and imprisoning four tyrants on a barren planet around which Green Lantern created a barier.
Escaping thanks to combined wilpower of four of them, Kanjar leaves other three to rot on the planet. Traveling on planet Rann, Kanjar has cities worth of people brainwashed to be his slaves, working on the machine that will, incombination with Rann’s three suns make three times Stranger than superman. Adam Strange and his lover Allana succesfully contact the league and using Dhoromite, beat Kanjar. Kanjar is put in the Prison of Dhoromite, but its radiation makes it so that Adam will day if he stays on Rann for long.
Kanjar attempts sevaral schemes to get back at League or Adam and conquer Earth or Rann:
- After learning how to make copies of people, Kanjar leaves his own Copy to rot in cell while he uses copies of league to distract them while he steals the Earth.
- Using energy rod to Recreate menace’s from Adam Strange’s past, making him believe he got Allana (at this point his fiance) and justice league killed. In fact he had them turned into a spheres so he could destroy them all together, with Allana’s life as insurance in case Adam figured him out.
- He has Adam infected with Zeta energy, with Superman, Flash, Batman, Wonder Woman and Aguaman being forced to absorb it to save him, causing them to become immaterial spirits which only Adam can see and hear, much to Ro’s glee.
- Uniting all aliens races who atempet to conquer Rann only to ne Stoped by Adam and alling with Renn’s generals who hated planets peacefull nature, Kanjar conquers Rann. Kanjar declarates the war on planet Thanagar, where his rival queen Hyatis has estabilished a stronghold. Kidnaping Allana, Kanjar has her used as distraction for Adam, Hawkman and Hawkgirl, while he takes his fleet to conquer Thanagar. He is beaten by team while attempting to assasinate Hyatis and Rann is freed, alought Hyatis stays in charge of Thanagar and banishes heroes.
Kanjar eventually serves in Brainiac’s aliance of villains during the Crisis on infinite Earths. He dosen’t do anything notable there.
Redeming Qualities?
He swears a friendship with other rulers while they are stuck on the Prison planet. Only to leave escape and leave them first chance he got. Now he also does swear to free Earth after justice league help him take out other rulers, but it is done so that he could have their word to not attack him, making clear he is content to leave whole planet traped othervise.
Heinousness?
Tricky part, but ultimately i think he makes it. It is made clear, though League’s expirience that people frozen by his weapon are still aware, anguish which he causes to Adam by making him believe he watched his fiance and half of justice league die is played pretty straight and he was tirant who waged war on three other planets and conquer one other, intending to conquer Thanagar as well. For guy who, except in his first appereance and 3 issue tenure as ruler of Rann, has nothing except a few gadgets. I think he is good.
Conclusion?
Gonna go with yes.
Caesar
Yes to Stalin, Kent, Custer and Kanjar Ro, good find, Geode!
- Tales of the Jedi:
- (Naga Sadow)
- Freedon Nadd is a particularly sadistic Sith lord who is responsible for the Beast Wars of Onderon, the Krath cult, and even the rise of Exar Kun himself. Nadd murdered a Jedi Master in a petty rage when he was rejected from the rank of Knight, and went on to take Naga Sadow as a Dark Side master. Murdering Sadow to steal his title of Dark Lord, Nadd turned the planet Onderon into his own personal fiefdom, wherein swathes of innocents were exiled to die while the rest were infected and tormented by Nadd's evil. For hundreds of years after his physical death, Nadd's spirit lingered and would corrupt his descendants into his puppets to further torment Onderon, subjecting the population of Iziz to torture and murderous outbursts. When the Beast Riders try to make peace with Iziz, Nadd uses Queen Amanoa to try to wipe out the Riders and murder her own daughter, before Nadd slays the loyal Amanoa and King Ommin for failing him and steals their souls. Empowering Satal and Aleema Keto in the Dark Side and orchestrating their heinous Krath cult takeover of multiple worlds, Nadd tortures and mentally breaks the ambitious Exar Kun into accepting the Dark Side and murdering several of Nadd's own followers. Nadd ultimately tries to use Kun in a brand new destructive campaign on the entire galaxy, having bore visions of Kun's power and hoping to twist him into a puppet for mayhem.
- (Exar Kun)
- (Aleema)
Edited by Ravok on Feb 18th 2023 at 11:20:53 AM
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
Collector of Worlds
Okay, let's go. Second proposal. I nominate Carmine Falcone from The Batman. This is Matt Reeves's new Batman continuity, reimagning the Dark Knight in a new, more grounded universe (again). And in this movie, there's one detestable villain: Carmine Falcone.
What Has He Done?
Carmine Falcone is a major crime boss in Gotham City. Back when the Waynes were alive, Thomas, who had previously saved his life, to put a stop to a reporter working for Sal Maroni from exposing Martha Wayne's traumatic life. Carmine had the reporter killed and tried blackmailing Thomas with this fact. However, Thomas was going to turn himself in and Falcone possibly sent a hitman to kill him and his wife.Whether or not he was behind their deaths, Falcone, along with many other people, looting the Renewal programme, pretty much stealing money from children, and rose in power to have control of nearly every aspect of Gotham: the police included. This was thanks to him ratting out Sal Maroni in a drug bust, which gave him dirt on the GCPD and the mayor. Oh, and he also abandoned his child and strangled said child's mother to death.
In the present, Falcone continues his tenure as a crime boss. Anyone on his payroll is too afraid to rat him out, because he'll kill them and their families. As the Riddler starts trying to bring him out to the light, Falcone murders his child's friend/maybe-girlfriend via strangulation due to her learning about his ratting out of Maroni. Eventually, his child, Selina Kyle, confronts him to get revenge for the people he's killed, namely her mom and Annika, to which Falcone responds by trying to choke her to death, sneering how it "hates" having to kill his own flesh and blood. He's only saved by Batman and, exposed, is primed to be sent to jail before he's sniped dead by the Riddler.
Redeeming Qualities?
Nope for Freudian Excuse. He's just a power-hungry scumbag who's perfectly willing to kill people and screw over orphans for his own ends.For loved ones, that's tricky. Obviously, he tries to kill Selina after murdering her mother years ago, and even his similarly congenial relationship with Oswald is subverted with he mocks him and calls him a gimp right before his death. However, what makes me unsure is his relationship with Bruce. He seems pretty chill with him, treating him like a friend in a way. Whether or not this is just part of his Faux Affably Evil package, I can't tell. Maybe you guys can.
Heinousness?
Now, he's not as destructive as the Riddler. But the Riddler has a whole army of crazed fans who want to bomb the city and flood people. I'd argue Falcone does the best with what he does: namely what he wants to do... namely corruption. His heinousness is enough with his resources.
Conclusion?
I'm leaning towards a , but the whole heinousness stuff and his relationship with Bruce Wayne makes me wonder. What do you think?
Edited by MemeMaster245 on Feb 18th 2023 at 7:19:24 PM
I will claim what is rightfully mine, and rebuild the Kryptonian Empire.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Kanjar
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Carmine, Riddler being some random fuck off loony attempting a body count of hundreds while Carmine is a crime lord who's crimes aren't shown enough for his tier IMO.
Writeup looks decent Forgo but I think there's some room for trimming since she's a chunky bit more lengthy than the Belos writeup in that fic.
Edited by WetFlannels on Feb 18th 2023 at 7:25:33 PM
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.