Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Cora and Haynau
Caesar
Big ol Yes to Verger, glad to see him finally go up! Yes to Cora, as well
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
The Draftsman of Doom
Questions for Haynau:
Re: Heinousness: Exactly how many people is Haynau shown to kill? Do other villains do anything similar? Do any villains do anything worse? Han sounds pretty bad as well, and the Nuke people sound worse.
Re: Mitigating Factors: Do we see the effects of his actions on screen? Is any pattern of behaviour established from what we see onscreen?
Edited by SkyCat32 on Feb 13th 2023 at 9:42:32 AM
Your friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man.
We see Haynau launch a missile on the Livonian capital so yes, we see Haynau kill people on-screen.
(I mean, Josh has thrashed cities, but it is unclear how much people he has killed in those thrashings, as he is usually sent in as a type of shock troop, and Josh has more resources than Haynau.)
(Elias, Theodor, and Han don't have that problem, but there is clearly a scale problem. They can do the nuke thing because they clearly can afford to do so. Still, Elias and Theodor have a tragic backstory, and Elias is an outright Tragic Villain so they don't count. Han seems more neutral than outright evil. Han hasn't outright nuked his people, and the only thing he directly nuked is GPS, which has become a tool for Jerusalemite terrorists, so...)
We do see the effects of Haynau's genocide on screen. Every time Haynau kills more and more, the Livonians have a harder time pushing back the Jerusalemites, as there are less men and women to defend Livonian Land. This is something that Prime Minister Boris is aware of and is disgusted at Haynau throwing away Jerusalemite lives, as well as the genocide of Livonian people and he is frustrated that Haynau never seems to run out of men while Boris and Konstantinov do. This is established character for Haynau from the time he was first shown attempting to annex Livonia, and things get darker as he slowly achieves that goal. The number of casualties that Haynau killed shown is at least in the hundreds of thousands in conservative estimates. The more liberal estimates of casualties are in the millions. By the time Haynau victoriously comes into the Livonian capital, Livonia is only a shadow of their former self, while Jerusalem is at around the same strength, if not stronger than before. By the time Haynau wants to bring out a surrender, most of the Prime Minister's men don't, because A. They don't trust Haynau and for all they know Haynau could be lying so that he can kill them while they aren't looking, and B. Even if what Haynau said is true, it would still be a Fate Worse than Death as it's clear that they would never be free again, and C. It's because they are the bravest men in Livonia.
Edited by OrrorSANESS on Feb 13th 2023 at 7:24:42 AM
Ultimate Moral Compass
Cora
Regarding Haynau, as the resident Paradox fan here—I have been thinking of looking into this AAR to decide who would qualify. However, I need the time to sit down and read this because let’s just say it’s extremely long, spanning millenia across multiple games and mods in the Paradox grand strategy collection.
And the heinous standard is extremely jacked because this AAR I am vaguely aware has literal cosmic level angels, demons, and Eldritch Abomination villains in it aside from the usual fascist megalamaniacs, purge happy tankies, and General Ripper style warmongers and war criminals that tend to feature in mods and fan written AARs
Devilman!God, Cora and Octomus
Edited by xie323 on Feb 13th 2023 at 8:03:38 AM
Wild Child
Alright, got a frankly overdue proposal from a novel that was on my To-Do list months back than only recently came in.
What's the Work?
Grounded for All Eternity is a 2022 fantasy novel by Darcy Marks. In this setting, Hell is a normal suburban area, with only human souls imprisoned in the Pit, guarded by the powers, Hell's angels. The story follows Malachi and his friends, a group of young powers about to undergo training to take over as the Pit's guardians, much to Malachi's chagrin. On Halloween night, however, the kids sneak away to the veil separating Hell and Earth and end up in Salem, Massachusetts.
And they've unwittingly brought the escaped soul of one of history's greatest manipulators with them.
Who is He? What Has He Done?
In life, Samuel Parris was the puritan minister in Salem, Massachusetts, infamous for having orchestrated the Salem witch trials of 1692, during which over 200 people were accused, including his daughter and niece, and twenty executed. All to his benefit, with Parris having profited off the mass hysteria by taking many of the accused's belongings and property. Upon his passing, Parris was subsequently imprisoned in the eighth circle of the Pit, reserved for manipulators.
In the present, however, Parris manages to escape, putting the entire neighborhood on lockdown as the powers search for him. When Malachi and his friends secretly go to the veil, Parris secretly follows them and, as souls can only cross the veil with a power, causes them to pass through, the kids unknowingly bringing Parris with them. Now back in the mortal coil, Parris returns to his old habits of causing chaos for his own benefit, subtly influencing the town's residents and removing their normal inhibitions and impulse control. The town slowly but surely ends up descending into chaos, with assaults, muggings and attempted murders taking place, including one person throwing himself onto the streets and being fatally run over. All the while, Parris uses the chaos to strengthen himself, regaining his mortal form and allowing himself to overtly take control of the town's residents. To make matters worse, the thrones, a type of angel, are sent from Heaven to 'cleanse' the town to keep Parris' influence from spreading further; something that Malachi notes would send many souls to the Pit that wouldn't have been there had it not been for Parris' influence.
It's then revealed that Parris is tipping the balance between good and evil itself, which could have cosmic consequences. Needing an object of importance to Parris to trap him, the kids, with help from a seraphim named Cassandra and young witches Sean and Charity, summon the soul of Sarah Good, one of the falsely accused witches, who helps them retrieve Parris' golden candlesticks. By this point, Parris has practically taken over the town and, to prevent the kids from stopping him, causes another witch hunt, having his followers capture Charity and hang her, with Malachi and his friends barely saving her in time. As the thrones of Heaven emerge, Parris flees to the tower of the church and ends up destroying the candlestick, revealing to the kids his intent to turn the world into his new Kingdom Come and render Heaven and Hell 'outdated relics of a sanctimonious deity'.
Taking control of the witch coven attempting to stop him and turning them against each other, Parris feeds off their magic to boost his power even more and starts tearing open the veils between Heaven and Hell, potentially endangering the cosmos. In a last-ditch effort to stop him, the kids use the remaining candlestick to ensnare him, and Charity and Crowley, the powers' Magician, combine their protection spell to free the town from Parris' influence. With his power supply cut off, Parris is successfully entrapped within the candlestick and returned to the Pit under increased security, balance and order restored.
Mitigating factors?
Yeah, no. As Sarah Good states, the only thing Parris cares about is wealth and power. He orchestrated the Salem witch trials simply to profit off the chaos, and while he mentions that he initially only escaped the Pit to flee his eternal suffering, upon returning to the mortal coil, he views it as an opportunity to gain more power than ever before and essentially become a god, cosmic consequences be damned.
Heinous standard?
He orchestrated one of the worst cases of mass hysteria and persecution in life, and he's only gotten worse since then. He deliberately plunges Salem into chaos to grow in power and attempts to have an innocent young girl executed so she can't interfere with his plans. While the thrones of Heaven attempt to exterminate the town to stop his influence from spreading, something Malachi even calls them out on, Parris' actions have consequences on a cosmic scale, threatening both the world and the hereafters.
Final Verdict?
Your call.
Why so serious?
to Samuel Parris
Ultimate Moral Compass
Samuel
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Parris.
So, here it is, my other Valentine's Day EP, about... a game that has nothing to do with romantic love! But it is a game I finished last weekend, so might as well get it out of the way.
What's the work?
Acrylic is an Explorer Horror game inspired by Ib, Ao Oni, and The Witch's House. It is about art academy student Nicole Chapman who attends the titular Acrylic Academy, and one night realizes she left her art portfolio in the fifth floor. So she goes to get it, and her sister Joelle follows her inside- surprise surprise, the school is haunted at night. So Nicole and Joelle find themselves having to evade the spirits haunting the school, and then pacify them by telling them their names and how they died, which they forgot upon death.
In the process, they learn that these spirits have something in common- they were all sexually victimized and murdered by a staff member at the school who was so well-respected that the Dean refused to investigate him.
Here is a playlist of the game by the dev herself.
As it turns out, this man is none other than Nicole's favorite teacher, Mr. Aaron, and our candidate.
...or, at least, that’s what I thought was gonna be the case, until the endgame abruptly reveals he is the victim of corruption or possession by our actual candidate- a rare example of a Stringy-Haired Ghost Girl who doesn't have narrative sympathy.
Who is Brittaney the Collage? What does she do?
Aaron's daughter who one day tragically drowned. Upon becoming a spirit, she forgot her name and how specifically she died, but she did not forget that Aaron, who didn't notice her drowning because she swam too far away, was in some way responsible for her death. So she decided to punish him and also punish the world for not letting her share her art with everyone.
She would periodically possess Aaron and use his body to sexually prey upon girls at the academy. Her first victim was sketch artist Chelsea Whitney, whom she relentlessly stalked, and it's implied she eventually raped her. This broke Chelsea so horribly that she killed herself. Then, she went after sculptor Tessa Joseph, ambushing her when she was alone in a classroom and trying to prey on her, but she screamed and fought back, so she carved her up, slowly killing her while making her feel every bit of the pain. Finally, she went after photographer Stephanie Grigg, stripping off her dress and taking pictures of her nude body while she cried and cried, then took her knife and emptied out her entrails. When the Dean confronted “Aaron” about it, she decapitated him. And she did all this while forcing Aaron to experience what she was doing with his body, driving him to tears.
The three girls thus became spirits, cursed to wander the school and kill any living person who went inside at night while not remembering their names or how they died- just like her. When Nicole and Joelle show up, the latter gets briefly locked in a supply closet and dies to either her or the other spirits, becoming a spirit herself. Nicole can also die in 20 different and creatively cruel ways.
When Nicole and Joelle finally meet up with her and discover the truth, she tells them that Joelle is dead just to enjoy breaking Nicole and explains that she just wants to share her “art” with the world. Luckily, Nicole figured out how she died and so tells her that against her will, forcing her to move on and banishing her to the afterlife- presumably Hell.
Heinousness?
Possesses her dad, uses his body to sexually assault and murder two girls and drive another to suicide while making him watch, decapitates the Dean, traps their spirits in tormented existences, kills another girl, and tries to kill her sister in gruesome ways. We are spared having to directly witness the assaults and murders, but we do see the tormented spirits of the girls who describe their horrific fates in great detail. Easy pass.
Mitigating Qualities?
Now, her being a spirit who lost her memories of her name and how she died might seem disqualifying at first, but there are a couple reasons this isn't ultimately agency-impairing.
- First, the narrative doesn't treat her or her backstory with much sympathy- when Nicole spells it out for her, she kinda sympathizes but outright calls her unforgivable and basically says what happened to her is no excuse. Dying as a kid is tragic, but Cursed Letter!Aya Fumino had a similar backstory and she still got up.
When you were a small girl, there was an accident! You were at the beach near the ocean, do you remember? [...] You swam out deep into the waters... too far for your father to see you! With him not watching you and the water getting rougher and rougher... you drowned... alone and cold... YOU DIED IN THE OCEAN THAT DAY! [...] And in your grief and anger, you were left behind, trapped in this world... And so you did the only thing that could bring you any kind of relief... You haunted that man, your father, who so carelessly let you swim on your own, who let you die that day! You haunted him and made him do dark and evil things, so he could feel the same pain and anguish you felt! You're... you're UNFORGIVABLE!
- Second, spirits don't really lack agency. Chelsea and Stephanie do try to kill Nicole at first, but when she explains that she wants to help them, they are able to resist their murderous impulses and talk with her and Joelle, explaining what happened to them, and they only attack afterwards if you give them the wrong item that doesn't explain how they died. The biggest example is Joelle herself, who, upon becoming a spirit, only loses memory of her death but still remembers who she is for some reason, and is still the same sweet girl she was in life, never attacking anyone but instead doing everything she can to help Nicole. If Joelle can become a spirit without immediately becoming a Vengeful Ghost, I think it can be said that Brittaney has agency.
- Finally, while the other spirits do want to remember who they are and how they died, the Collage explicitly goes out of her way to avoid remembering, because she doesn't want to let go of her grudge and move on to the next life. She enjoys making the living suffer and seems to consider her sick perversions to be “art”, which she wants to share with the world along with her paintings by killing as many as she can. Wanting her father who let her die to suffer is one thing, but sexually assaulting innocent girls is Misplaced Retribution, and she's so needlessly sadistic that she just comes across as a demented Mad Artist. She does ultimately help Joelle realize she is a spirit thus allowing her to pass on, but her dialogue makes it clear she didn’t do this to help Joelle, but to torment Nicole with the revelation that her beloved sister is dead and she will never see her again.
Verdict?
Yes to Mark Jefferson as a Cute Ghost Girl with Multicolored Hair. Now that’s A Rare Sentence.
Edited by MasterN on Feb 13th 2023 at 9:05:17 AM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Samuel Parris, who seems to have picked up a few traits of Thomas Putnam, the actual ringleader of the bad-faith actors at Salem, for this book.
The Draftsman of Doom
Yes to Parris and Brit.
Your friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man.
King Kandy Kane
I thought a while about if Paragus would count after learning the whole "destroying a galaxy" feat was his doing and not Broly's. Judging by Fireball's EP, his dub counterpart seems to qualify so I'll give him a
I'll also give a to Bibidi, Hoi, and the manga version of Zamasu.
Edited by Elimations1 on Feb 13th 2023 at 1:20:08 PM
(police siren)
The Undercover Troper
I was hoping to have Suguru Kamoshida added to the quotes page, but it was really difficult finding any conversations that consistently highlighted his heinousness. The best I can offer as a suggestion is his confession, just with with the "remorseful" parts exorcised to primarily focus on his depraved aspects.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
People, please, once you make an EP add it to the pending page.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Not the Eye
to Cora, Brittaney and Samuel
Edited by EmperorGeode on Feb 14th 2023 at 2:52:59 AM
Goku Black
Samuel, Cora.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to Cora, Parris...and hesitant yes to Brittaney.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Unofficial co-Wiki Curator for Magnificent Bastard
Welp, I wish I didn't see what was in that folder. Hesitant to College.
Man in the Yellow Hat
To Bibidi, Dub!Paragus, definitely Mason Verger, both Gods (Jeez they're horrid), and von Haynau (if I'm getting it right, he's a general competing with actual rulers and eldritch abominations, so should be fine).
Cautious ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to Hoi, it sounds like his entire species is completely evil.
Edited by Purgatoryisof2 on Feb 14th 2023 at 7:29:05 AM
He/Him
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Actually, I'm still doubtful on Nigel. Can the 3 other murders be pinned on him? And even if we give him 9, Scott Dunn seems like he has AT LEAST that many, plus his attempted bombing.
Dunn in addition to the five murders we see him commit—including his scapegoat—also committed a whole other killing spree too—which included another scapegoat as well, so take from that what you will.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
I said Dunn, not Malloy. As G said though, Malloy has less resources and less time than Dunn.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Feb 14th 2023 at 6:04:49 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Oh, if that's the case, I'm more inclined to vote yes.
EDIT: Oh, right.
Though resources and time aren't iron clad. Malloy doesn't even have double-digit kills.
Edited by ACW on Feb 14th 2023 at 9:13:48 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts