Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
Caesar
At some point, yea, the Baron's needs a little updating. At the absolute least if just to communicate that he's a routine pedophilic rapist.
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
Yes to Rabban
Woagh
The Emperor of Evil!
Well great googly moogly 😳 ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Rabban, A Beast in Name and Nature indeed-
Classy, Refined, Unstable
And a yes to Rabban!
Aight here's the beginning of a large(ish) collab between me and Ravok (with MGD handling a guy too since I promised them the character, expect that sometime next week.) We've got a plethora of bad guys incoming, all with unique M Os to help stand out so let's get it started yes?
What is the work?
The Sarah Jane Adventures is a spin off show from Doctor Who featuring the former companion Sarah Jane. The show's operated in an eposdic structure with each story consisting of a two parter. Apart from a select few villains, most of them just stick to their two parter. One of them however doesn't and even effects the main series and is mentioned in Torchwood. Meet The Trickster.
Who is The Trickster and what has he done?
A freakish entity and member of the "Pantheon Of Discord" who were banished outside of reality, The Trickster only has one goal in life, to wreak chaos so he may feed on it. Having his "Trickster Brigade" wreak havoc, two notable instances from this are the parallel universe in "Turn Left" in Doctor Who where the Doctor died—inadvertently causing the Earth to become a fascistic dystopia with millions dead and Britain ending up having parallels to a certain party and in the episode "Immortal Sins" in Torchwood where his creature causes a Nazi victory in WW 2.
In the show proper however, we see The Trickster's own personal machinations. In his first appearance in the episode "Whatever Happened to Sarah Jane?" The Trickster alters the current timeline by removing Sarah Jane from it and trapping her in a blank void. To trigger this change of events, The Trickster travels in a spot in time to the moment where Sarah and her friend Andrea were at the pier when they were 13. When Andrea falls and is hanging on for dear life, The Trickster offers her a deal to swap her for Sarah— a deal the terrified 13 year old girl accepted. The result? The Trickster swaps the two and has the 13 year old Sarah fall to her death.
The result? Andrea lives her full life and no one's the wiser due to events being played out differently. No one but the child Maria who had a device that made her immune to the Trickster's machinations. During this we find out why The Trickster has done this when he communes with Sarah for the first time. At the moment in time when the show is taking place, a meteorite is heading to Earth that no one is aware of...apart from Sarah. So removing Sarah will allow the meteorite to crash and kill everyone on Earth. Why does The Trickster favour this? Because there's no reason behind it.
Before he leaves Sarah he muses to her that he's become aware of the Doctor and that he'll try to remove them from the timeline to unleash chaos of a universal nature. In the end plot stuff happens and Andrea sacrifices herself to save the Earth, returning Sarah to the timeline and allowing her to stop the meteorite— earning the Trickster's ire.
In his second appearance "The Temptation of Sarah Jane Smith." The Trickster has his minion (who he made into his slave after falsely saving him from death) lure Sarah into a time vortex in which it takes her back to the village where her parent's lived. Sarah then discovers that it's the date when her parents left her as a baby and died in a car crash under mysterious circumstances. Sarah stops the accident from happening out of desperation which allows The Trickster to form into the universe due to it being a moment in time changed at a weak point in the timeline.
The result in the future? Almost all of humanity dead and the rest enslaved by The Trickster to gather him materials to grow stronger and to allow him to wreak havoc amongst the universe. When Sarah realises that her parents have to die to fix the timeline, The Trickster just laughs at her, knowing she couldn't make them kill themselves. Sarah's parents though understand that their deaths saves billions in the future and perform a Heroic Sacrifice, having the car crash and leaving their baby Sarah aside. Due to this, The Trickster starts to materialise out the universe yelling in fury.
In his final appearance in the show "The Wedding of Sarah Jane Smith" The Trickster makes a deal with a dying man named Peter Dalton under the guise of an angel. During this Sarah and Peter begin to fall in love and eventually marry where, if Sarah says "I do" she'll become brainwashed under The Trickster's control and won't interfere with alien threats, allowing them to unleash their plans unopposed while The Trickster just sits back and watches the chaos unfurl.
During the wedding, the 10th Doctor bursts through the doors in which The Trickster intervenes and traps Sarah and Peter one second ahead while trapping the Doctor and the human children one second behind in time. The Trickster then gives Sarah a choice, either accept the proposal or everyone at the wedding will be condemned to be trapped within time forever. When Clyde approaches The Trickster under the ploy of servitude, The Trickster mocks him for his uselessness, unknowing that Clyde was infused with Artron energy from the Tardis, allowing him to hurt the Trickster and allow the Doctor to talk to Sarah and Peter and reveal how to defeat The Trickster. Said way to defeat the Trickster? Peter to revert the deal and return to the spot where he was dying and this time actually die. While The Trickster begs for Peter to not revert the deal, Peter defiantly stands against him and sacrifices himself to banish The Trickster.
This is the last appearance of the guy although he was meant to appear in the finale of the show. However due to the unfortunate passing of Elizabeth Sladen, it was never to be.
Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
No just no... on the Freudian Excuse, all we've got is a bombastic sadist who thrives on the chaos he tries to cause.
To address the key issues people might have with him:
- Him reverting the deals, The Trickster is never happy about it so it's just a forced clause.
- Being a member of the "Pantheon Of Discord". When the Doctor says he looks a bit lonely for a Pantheon, The Trickster replies with "I embody multitudes" and since he's the only member we ever see in any of the shows? I'm not holding this against him, the Pantheon is never delved in apart from these few lines at all.
- Him feeding off chaos, we've had Horror Hunger guys like Death and It and there's no scene of him being considered as an essential part of creation, just a twisted blight. No scenes of it being treated as him needing it to survive or whatnot.
Heinous Standard?
Now I'm not going to mince things here, despite taking the show as it's own standard, you'd think it being oriented towards a younger audience since it's daytime TV after school the standard wouldn't be anything bad right? HA no. This show gleefully subverts Never Say "Die" and has multiple global threats with the appropriate weight to it. However the guys me and Ravok have picked mostly have the uniqueness behind them. For example the guys in the first episode kill multiple humans (including a child) and wear their skin as disguises while they intend on killing everyone on Earth. They don't count due to heinous concerns and loved ones. For reference these are the guys me and Ravok have got prepared.
- An expy of Pennywise responsible for the deaths of thousands of children during centuries.
- A parastic monster turning people into stone with And I Must Scream and intending on letting it's species invade humanity.
- The Quisling sending human children off to a space war for the sake of profit.
- An alien committing And I Must Scream for centuries to feed of peoples' lifeforce.
- An entity intending on committing humanity to Mind Rape eternally.
- A serial destroyer of planets who intends on driving humanity to despair to just wipe out the Earth and moving on.
- A nasty slave trader with exceptionally nasty treatment.
The Trickster? Handily is one of the worst in the show. Being responsible for timelines with billions dead at least and intending on spreading across the universe. The show doesn't mince about with the threat of him and the emotional impact this guy has with preying on Sarah to have to sacrifice her parents, making her 13 year old friend swap themselves with Sarah so she dies instead and manipulating Peter (who's a genuine Nice Guy who ends up being Killed Off for Real), this guy's episodes always end with a Bitter Sweet Ending.
Final Verdict?
Easy Keeper.
Edited by WetFlannels on Dec 11th 2023 at 3:29:10 PM
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Trickster
You guys only covering Sarah-Jane or the Whoniverse as a whole?
EDIT: Nvm, I wasn't reading the EP in order.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Ah cool.
Edited by Snowy66 on Dec 11th 2023 at 7:37:25 AM
Classy, Refined, Unstable
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Only Sarah Jane atm.
I referenced that in the beginning of the what has done section?
Edited by WetFlannels on Dec 11th 2023 at 3:35:44 PM
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
The Ultimate Lifeform
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yes to The Trickster
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
The Emperor of Evil!
to The Trickster.
Without further ado.
- WinBack: Cecile Carlyle is Kenneth Coleman’s murderous right-hand man in the Crying Lions. Assisting in the violent takeover of the Westham Fortress housing the GULF Satellite’s control center, Cecile cheerfully murders SCAT commando Matt Brown before ordering the destruction of Westham’s office complex, disregarding any of his own men who would’ve been killed in the explosion. Encountering a mortally wounded Law Bruford, Cecile executes him despite Law no longer posing a threat. In the best ending path, Cecile captures SCAT commando Lisa Roberts before ordering Jean-Luc Cougar to present himself lest he kill her, and then proceeds to kill Jean-Luc’s and Lisa’s friend Jake Hudson. Turning on Kenneth, Cecile shoots him In the Back multiple times even as he lay dying, before threatening to fire the satellite again unless he’s given 100 million dollars; a threat Cecile intends on carrying out even after he’s given the ransom. A psychopath with no care for the Sarcozian rebellion, Cecile openly delights in how nothing makes him happier than knowing he ruined someone else’s day.
The Trickster. Pretty telling how dark this universe is when even the Lighter and Softer show has such villains.
Caesar
Yes to the Trickster, great work and I'll have the first of mine up in short order!
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
Goku Black
trickster and Rabban.
Pierce, Imposter, Jude and Maisie, King Jimmy, Volume Gaul, Rabban, Trickster
x4 How high is mainline Doctor Who's heinous standard really? Incredible?
I have a CM proposal from the fighting game Video Game/Skullgirls. It's one of the playable characters named Black Dhalia.
Who is she? What has she done?
Black Dhalia is an elderly assassin and one of the most evil characters in the Skullgirls franchise. Once morally wounded by the Skullgirl, Dhalia was sent to the Anti-Skullgirl Labs where she was rebuilt as a cyborg, similar to Big Band. However, whereas Big Band still had morals, Dhalia on the other hand developed a sadistic bloodlust and betrayed the lab, deciding to become a gun for hire. During her own story mode, it's revealed that Dhalia killed Squigly and her parents when she was 14 years old, mocking her about it, stating how her mother was disappointed with her brains all over the birthday cake, then proceeds to put a bullet through Squigly's head again after she's defeated. Hired by Lorenzo, she proceeded to slaughter the Contiellos and go after the Fishbone Gang to steal back the Life Gem he needs. Having been given a jetpack, Dhalia sees Bloody Marie holding a building up to prevent it from crushing the people below, Dhalia proceeds to attack her, forcing her to drop the building, causing it to kill countless people, something Dhalia doesn't care that they died and even mocks Marie for it.
At the club, Dhalia encounters Squigly, Vitale, Eliza and Cerebella. She already killed Squigly then battles Eliza and Cerebella. After defeating them both, Dhalia has her bunnies use flamethrowers to burn Eliza, guns down Vitale and proceeds to go after Ms. Fortune. After their battle, Ms. Fortune is saved by Robo Fortune, who proceeds to grab the Skull Heart and Ms. Fortune to escape. However, refusing to not deal the final blow to Fortune, Dhalia fires her gun at Robo-Fortune, causing it to drop the Skull Heart.
Back in the club, Dhalia is approached by Valentine, Fukua and Big Band, where she proceeds to defeat them both. She intercepts a call from Brain Drain, where she gives him a deal of trading the Skull Heart for Ms. Fortune. However, she reveals to her goons that she plans on backstabbing Brain Drain and taking both the Heart and Fortune. During the deal, Robo-Fortune turns Ms. Fortune into a Life Gem, causing Dhalia to explode in anger because she was denied the pleasure of looking at her face while she was suffering. After defeating Robo-Fortune, Dhalia holds Brain Drain down ready to kill him before he escapes and causes his suit to explode. She is then approached by Lorenzo, where she proceeds to kill him when she's talking to the Skull Heart and threatens to one of her minions that'll she be next if she doesn't let her talk. Upon wishing with the Skull Heart, Dhalia is transported to an alternate dimension where she can maim and kill monsters to her absolute satisfaction.
Heinous Standard?
Dhalia is one of the most evil characters in Skullgirls and her only competition is Eliza, Double, Lorenzo and Brain Drain. However, what makes Dhalia stand out is how personal she is to some of the cast, including being the one to murder both Squigly and her parents. Plus, Dhalia has less resources than all of these villains (save Double, Double however is a Mama Bear towards Venus and Aeon). Dhalia treats her minions better than Brain Drain, however given that she threatened one of her minions while she was talking to the Skull Heart, it's clear that Dhalia sees her minions at pets she can use. Dhalia overall is devoid of redeeming qualities.
Mitigating Factors
Dhalia will act polite to friends and foe alike, however it's nothing but an act. Dhalia is nice to her minions, but given how again she threatened one of them at the end, it's clear she only keeps them around as servants and pets rather than genuine care. She talks nicely to Eliza, but has no problems burning her alive when she's defeated. Every "redeemable quality" Dhalia seemingly has shows to subvert itself later and that Dhalia at her core is a pure evil, sadistic monster who revels in chaos and death and has no care for anyone.
Verdict?
I'm very confident that Dhalia is a good candidate for CM proposal, I give her a .
Classy, Refined, Unstable
To put it in perspective, the "least bad" CM in the show we've got listed is an "old lady" who tries to kill billions with nothing but hospital equipment as her resources just as a means to escape the Space Police.
Edited by WetFlannels on Dec 11th 2023 at 5:25:01 PM
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Yes to the Trickster.
As for Black Dahlia, this section from her bio and as mentioned in the effort post sets off red flags to me.
- Decades ago, the woman now known as Black Dahlia was mortally wounded by the Skullgirl and brought to the Anti-Skullgirl Labs, where she was rebuilt with cybernetics akin to Big Band. After all was said and done, Dahlia unexpectedly developeda lust for bloody violence and inflicting suffering on others.
So the story is stating she only became like this after she was turned into a cyborg after fatal injuries? I do understand the lore states Big Band got cybernetics but didn't turn evil, but it also seems to be stating Dahlia wasn't evil when she was a normal person. Convince me otherwise but I'm seeing agency issues right now.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Dhalia states in her story mode that nearly dying replaced her naivete with something more fulfilling, that the Skullgirl ripped her body apart and taught her her true self.
It's clear that Dhalia has purposely rejected her past self in favor of being a sadistic monster.
to Rabban. Will read the rest later.
Edited by WatTambor on Dec 11th 2023 at 10:08:30 PM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to Rabban and the Whoniverse's Joker.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]")
Rabban
"No running in the halls!"