Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Whoops, I stand corrected. So basically, you need to be omnicidal or, I guess in the case of Setne, have a Historical Rap Sheet.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Pyrock and Blizzrock.
Goyolk.
Abstaining on Kronos.
If Lighty is dropping it, I can handle the GAMERA -Rebirth- discussion when the time comes.
Edited by Beast on Sep 21st 2023 at 3:27:25 AM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Not the Eye
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Aperently date for disscusion is today.
On that note about Kung Fu Panda: The Dragon Knight:
- Veruca dosen’t count. She is bad enought with her plot unleash ghost army on world and all Kick the Dog moments, uncluding reviving spirit of Wandering Blade’s brother (whose sword is revelated to be made from one of storm wheels) to kill her. But this season has her reveal that she still cares for Klaus, even wanting revenge on Blade for suposedly murdering him. And she ultimately helps heroes and Klaus save the world as spirit, reconciling with her brother and completing her redemption. Which leads us to true Big Bad…
- Luthera’s brother Sir Alfred is revelated to have grown dissolusioned with world’s leadership in his quest to destroy Tianshang Weapons and started planing to use them to rule the world. Which he starts by forcibly merging Pangea back together, creating destruction across the world and threathing countless lives before using ghost army as his force to forcibly keep peace. He is as for from keeper as possible, his good intentions are completely geniune, he loves his sister and mother and reddems himslef after realising his Pangea plan is about to blow up the planet.
No other villain introduced in season comes close to matching the standard and pretty much all of them have Reddeming gualities anyway.
So canibal priestess stays show’s only keeper.
Yeah, but I may need to rewatch it to make sure I didn’t forget or miss anything.
Edited by Beast on Sep 21st 2023 at 11:00:01 AM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
I'm still kinda baffled that they had us believe Vecura abandoned her love for Klaus, only for her to regain it out of the blue, but what you can do? But yeah, I agree that only the cannibal Priestess counts in Dragon Knight.
I have a question about Kronos: Was his incarnation from the second Percy Jackson movie ever discussed?
Gentle Laborer
Wasn't Movie!Kronos a Generic Doomsday Villain who got defeated in 5 minutes?
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yes to Pyrock, Blizzrock, and Goyolk. No to Kronos.
The problem with the movie version of Kronos is that he is just not heinous enough. Hades and Luke do worse then him and we don't really get him doing that much beyond eating some people and that is on top of not having much character.
Edited by Bullman on Sep 21st 2023 at 1:46:43 PM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Classy, Refined, Unstable
IIRC, Kronos appears in the climax, eats Luke and his stooges (not fatal as Luke is shown to be fine... until he realises that Ron Perlman cyclops is behind him) sprouts some destiny line... and that's it.
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
RIP Toriyama
Yeah I think I'll just abstain on Kronos myself
Ok, let's knock this one out:
What's the work?
Starfield is the newest IP from Bethesda, famous for the Elder Scrolls and Fallout franchises. Set in a sci-fi space setting with world-traveling exploration gameplay, it follows the player character on a variety of missions that helps them discover the cosmos develop their skills.
The game is a lot, lot more Lighter and Softer than Bethesda's previous outings, and thus far? Only one potential is standing out. From the "Ryujin Corporation" questline, we have the unseen Arc Villain:
Who is Lucas Drexler? What has he done?
- The Corrupt Corporate Executive of the immoral Infinity LTD, Lucas Drexler has a longstanding rivalry with Ryujin Industries. So, when he learns of their development of "Project Dominion", he can't help himself but to commit a bit of corporate espionage taken Up To Eleven.
- Learning that Dominion revolves around a neuro implant that will grant the user a measure of psychic capability, Drexler is eager to get ahead of Ryujin and steal their idea. He hires the Ecliptic Mercenary group to attack CM Station RC-1, facility made for mining the rothicite used in Dominion, with express orders to kill the entire mining and research staff at the station and steal the rothicite.
- Once it is obtained, Drexler uses the medical outpost of "the Clinic" to begin performing unauthorized, highly illegal human experimentation on hapless subjects using the ripoff neuro technology, leading to a mass of deaths and comas among the patients. Drexler's only concern is that the product isn't being finalized fast enough, and urges the doctors to continue the experiments and just inform him of any casualties so he can "clean up" the optics.
- The player eventually takes down Drexler and Infinity's corruption by stealing back the prototype tech and leaking their villainy to the press, leading to the downfall of Infinity.
Mitigating features?
Nothing, he's solely characterized by typical corporate greed with no other nuances. He's not seen much onscreen, mind you, but we do physically see him and more than that, we see plenty of messages written by him condoning and ordering the atrocities committed, all with a cold, clinical tone, so he's got the requisite character and dialogue.
Heinousness?
Like I said, the game is a much lighter experience overall than other Bethesda games, and it...really doesn't have all that many notably nasty villains, the game instead spending a lot of time on exploration and espionage. For a sidequest villain, Drexler stands out plenty with the mass murder of the CM Station's research and mining staff, then heading up a boatload of heinous experiments on hapless victims.
Edited by Ravok on Sep 21st 2023 at 12:20:13 PM
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Not the Eye
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Ultimate Moral Compass
Drexler
@miraculous: Thanks for the list of baddies. 
Switch to Abstain on Kronos.
for Drexler. Only one candidate? Color me surprised. 
Mad geologist
Bumping Immortalis since she didn't get much attention.
for Dexler.
No to the Brevon image. While it is definitely nasty enough in context (would it work as a video. It isn’t harmless Electric Torture, and Brevon’s also giving breaking speeches.) it’s hard for someone unfamiliar with the work to tell what’s going on.
I’m plotting my schemes wherever I go! They’re perfect in every way…
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Sure to Drexler.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Dexter.
And having played (some of) Freedom Planet, I do agree that the scene seen in the Brevon image would work better as a video.
Edited by Smiley100P on Sep 21st 2023 at 1:29:28 AM
Gentle Laborer
Drexler—if the game had the same tone as Fallout we'd be seeing a thousand candidates being proposed ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
Goku Black
drexler
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
Set inhabited two host bodies at the same time. One was Amos Kane, who at the time was the second most powerful magician in the world. The other was the Red Pyramid, a magical structure built by his demon army. This structure made him nearly indestructible whenever he was near it, empowered him even further by drawing the energy of his entombed siblings, and served as a magical focal point so his power was not limited like it would be in a human host body.
Kronos, conversely, only ever had one host body: a demigod son of Hermes (whose children's only confirmed innate powers are high athletic ability and swiftness, enhanced acting, manipulation and theft abilities, and being good with money), so Kronos remained on only a fraction of his full power all through the series even after Luke gains the Curse of Achilles, which made him immune to injury except in one weak point where even the smallest wound is immediately fatal.
Also, Set's plan to turn North America into a desert and sow chaos throughout the world, is AT BEST equel to Kronos's endgoal of destroying the very fabric of human civilization and driving our entire species back to the stone age so he can go back to snacking on us and torturing us for his own amusement for all eternity.
Plus, Kronos has a FAR higher confirmed kill count than Set or any other villain in this 'Verse, with at least thousands of deaths to his name. (Setne causing the French Revolution and assassinating Archduke Ferdinand are both only mentioned in a single throwaway line, and it's not even stated in any of the novels how many people died in the Revolution or if Ferdinand's assassination lead to World War I like it did real-life, making this Offstage Villainy with no impact on the story.)
And, as stated in my original post, he cannot be fairly compared to Gaea, Apophis, Setne (who had an effective means to blackmail Aopohis), Loki, Surt, Fenris Wolf (who all know of the Nine Worlds and what acts trigger Ragnarok), or the Triumvirate, either due to all of them being more powerful or having more resources or time to work with than he ever did.
Therefore, I STILL think Kronos qualifies.
Edited by michaeljobson on Sep 21st 2023 at 3:33:40 AM
Drexler.
And now that I caught back up, GAMERA -Rebirth- is a recent animated reboot of the Gamera franchise.
Set in a technologically advanced 1989 — they have iPhone-like devices — focusing on three friends, Boco, Junichi, and Joe, looking forward to their last summer together, when Japan is suddenly attacked by Kaiju. After they, and their bully turned friend, Brody are saved by Gamera, the four are roped into a mission to get behind the truth of these kaiju attacks.
Anyways, the twist is the Kaiju are being controlled by an Ancient and Corporate conspiracy dating back 100,000 years. And at the head of it all, is the Board of the Eustace Foundation...but if you want to point your finger at a specific person, Nora Melchiorri.
Who is Nora ? What does she do ?
Some backstory for context; 100,000 years ago, there was an ancient, but advanced civilization Hemueden sought supremacy over the world, and to that end would create Kaiju as Bio Weapon Beasts to cull humanity and replace them with their "master race". These Kaiju are powered by orylium, and can be controlled by devouring a child with a specific "code" in their bodies. Unfortunately to them, a traitor "reprogramed" Gamera to fight back against the kaiju as a protector, and when the squid-like Viras devoured a child with an failed "code", it destroyed Hemuden itself. Still, it's survivors lived among humanity, and have spent millenia plotting to finish what their ancestors started, and reinstate their former empire.
Nora Melchiorri is one of the current descendants of Hemueden's people, and the daughter of a prominent family. This got her on the Board of the Eustace Program, acting as their de-facto leader. To secure her position, Nora previously had her sister killed and usurped, starting a rivalry with her vengeful and ambitious niece, Emiko. With this, Nora is at the head of the snake for their plots to restart their ancestors' plans. As far as the public is aware, the Eustace Program is basically Monarch, an organization to study and understand these monsters, with some of their current employees in the dark about the Boards true intentions.
In the present day — or rather the modernized version of 1989 — the Eustace Program awakens a few of their sleeping monsters; a flock of Gyaos attack Tokyo, followed shortly thereafter by Jiger, which gets thousands, if not a near million people slaughtered and devoured. Both attacks are fought off by Gamera, as well as the subsequent attacks by Zigra and Guiron, which sees more casualties.
Under the direction of Emiko and her unaware partner, James Tazaki, the four lead kids are brought in on the Eustace Program's mission, ostensibly to get to the bottom of these attacks — in actuality, it's because Boco carries the genetic code needed to revive Viras as their ultimate weapon. The truth is soon revealed, and a treacherous Emiko tries to usurp her aunt and her plans, when Viras is partially awakened. However, Gamera once again steps in an kills Viras.
However, Nora had one last trump card for their master plan; months earlier, Nora and the Board got their hands on an imperfect infant Gyaos, who Nora proceeds to experiment on for genetic enhancements, creating the S-Gyaos. Upon awakening, the S-Gyaos devours Emiko, and Viras' corpse to grow further, going on a final rampage under Nora and the Board's watch. S-Gyaos sets out to finish off a wounded Gamera, and devour Boco, while slaughtering scores of soldiers. Gamera fights S-Gyaos despite his injuries, during which he is infected with a virus Nora and the Board installed within it.
Gamera manages to kill S-Gyaos, before Nora reveals her final trump card; activating S-Gyaos virus within Gamera, the Board tries to reset Gamera back to his original "programming", and carrying out their purification plans himself. Luckily, Gamera manages to overcome the virus, and blasts a plasma beam at the Board's base (on the moon, btw). Nora and the Board smugly think they have won, only to be immediately incinerated by the blast.
Mitigating Factors ?
Nah.
Her characterization begins and ends with her being a Smug Snake, and is used as The Face of the Board. Technically, she and her partners on the Board show an equal amount of power and authority, but she is the only one who gets any sufficient characterization or prominence. She's also not just part of the conspiracy, but is one of the heads of it, and the daughter of a prominent family in their society; something she secured by having her sister killed.
She's also shown as the one who gives the most orders and does the most visible planning. She and her partners are responsible for setting the Kaiju loose for their "purification" plot, while Nora is shown as the creator of S-Gyaos, setting it loose as a contingency plan; and when that doesn't work, tries to activate the virus within Gamera to use him as their new weapon.
Any care for her niece is non-existent, as Emiko is planning to usurp her, and their only real interaction is a snide confrontation. As for her partners, they have a professional/amicable relationship, but it's not portrayed as anything more than that.
Nora and her partners are the heinous standard. While they are The Unfought Non-Action Big Bad, they are responsible for not just the Kaiju attacks with the bodycount of "helluva lot", but their endgame is the near extinction of humanity and repopulate with their "pure" civilization, with the specific means of controlling these monsters being "Find the right kid to feed them".
While Emiko may give her competition, being The Heavy and the most personal villain to the protagonists for her betrayal, for the most part she's ostensibly going along with her aunt's plans. And when she tries to pull a Starscream, it (literally) blows up in her face. All this, with Nora being directly responsible for the Boards last two trump cards.
Edited by Beast on Dec 15th 2023 at 7:50:32 AM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Oh uh. I think from mmwory he still mourns his kids who were killed after he killed Baldur.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."