Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
Not the Eye
I think they are all okay to stay.
I think those Morse guys can stay
Okay, reading some of those recent Trace proposals made me think about this guy
- "Night Witness": Dmitry Tsukanov is a sadist who sees himself as a crusader against filth. His M.O. is raping the sex workers and killing them by driving over them with his SUV, making his victims run from it before the ultimate end.
Like I asked back when he was first proposed how many people he killed and the answer was 5 plus some more in the police precinct, and yeah that passes the baseline for a police procedural this show has other killers with over a dozen murders, like the Organist guy that poisoned 17 children, that crime boss that gets at least 18 babies addicted to drugs, the pedophile or the Darya lady who killed 34 people. Like this is Law & Order level stuff.
So I'm not sure of he's heinous enough compared to these guys, even if he does rape them there are other killers with higher body counts and other rapists, including a pedophile. I haven't watched the show though, so what do you guys think?
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
All the Morse baddies can stay. They all seem unique enough
Edited by G-Editor on Apr 10th 2023 at 3:32:14 PM
Been meaning to get to this for some time now, but I have a potential removal for one of my SCP candidates. A few days ago I was reached out with concerns regarding Jeser.
- Jeser, better known as the Prince of Many Faces and as told in Three Short Scenes About Death, was a proud and narcissistic god who ruled over dozens of dimensions to toy with as pleases. When the Scarlet King invaded, the Prince didn't hesitate to sell out his worlds to be subjugated in exchange for joining the Scarlet King's royal court. The Prince would enjoy his new position to inflict as much pain as he pleases to hundreds of worlds, aiding the Scarlet King's conquests of the multiverse by warping the wills of mortals, and in his spare time would help sow chaos among his fellow gods by bringing up past grudges. Despite his great position as the Scarlet King's right hand, he openly despises his master for having more power than he does, enviously watching him torment his concubines, and only refraining from trying to usurp the Scarlet King because the King is far more powerful than he is.
Anyways I got a PM asking me if Jeser really makes the cut in retrospect - not because of any mitigating quality from his author, but because Jeser and his crimes doesn’t have that much focus.
Despite being The Dragon to the the Scarlet King in the latter mythos, Jeser doesn’t really have that much to his name. He only has one story where he’s in the spotlight, which talks about his past and role on his masters court. The rest of the time Jeser and his deeds are given passing mentions in other stories.
The concerns being that besides that one story, Jeser’s crimes aren’t given that much focus. The only ones that are talked about how he was a tyrant to his worlds and sold them out to his new master (and being the Scarlet King, omnicide is the best case scenario), while envying his boss for all his power and concubines.
The rest of his crimes - warping mortals, manipulating other gods against eachother - are only talked about in passing mentions. And while we are a little lenient towards text based works with Offscreen Villainy, but I don’t think passing mentions make the cut.
Compared to other godlike beings, like the Scarlet King himself, or the Ambassador of Alagada - whose crimes are talked about in great detail, and are tangibly depicted - I don’t think quick, vague mentions of tormenting mortals or manipulating gods are enough to hold up.
I could take it or leave it either way, but I’m leaning to Cut.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Unofficial co-Wiki Curator for Magnificent Bastard
Hey, about Alexis Kerib, he does appear in GRIDMAN UNIVERSE... And does a legitmate Heel–Face Turn, sacrificing himself to stop Mad Origin. This could be up for discussion considering that Gridman Universe is a canonical sequel to SSSS.Gridman.
MB Pending | MB Drafts | MB Dates
Man in the Yellow Hat
Oh yeah, Jeser. Yeah, I'm leaning cut, he sounds like he's got to much offscreen villainy. Three questions just in case, though.
1. Does Jeser know what SK's schtick is prior to selling out his worlds?
2. Do we have the fates of the worlds revealed?
3. How powerful is Jeser?
Edited by Purgatoryisof2 on Apr 10th 2023 at 10:22:47 AM
He/Him
Cut Jeser and Kerib. As for the question the dude is pretty much a god meaning he pretty much have infinite resources in my eyes but in the end he didn’t do a lot of anything
Edited by Echidna on Apr 10th 2023 at 10:43:56 AM
Man in the Yellow Hat
Okay, thinking and reading more, a definitive cut to Jeser-he doesn't even sound instrumental to the conquest, just a dude who surrendered to an enemy he knew he couldn't defeat. The fact the conquest was specified to not be bloody doesn't help. And that is basically all he does onscreen (or is it onpage?).
Oh, and that Alexis Karab guy sounds like a cut for Heel-Face turning. Just to be clear, he sacrificed himself out of reasons not related to spite, right?
Edit: ![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
with below clarifications, a clear cut to Alexis, even if that sounds like a half-baked redemption at best.
Edited by Purgatoryisof2 on Apr 10th 2023 at 10:33:32 AM
He/Him
Unofficial co-Wiki Curator for Magnificent Bastard
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Not relating to spite at all. He dies with a complete smile fully appreciating the fact that life is limited.
An Eldritch Troper
I'll let others decide who needs to be cut from Endeavour.
We need a more thorough analysis of the heinous standard for Trace. Not just the other candidates we have now, but characters in the series who can't keep or those who haven't been proposed yet. Scraggle's evaluation of Diagnosis: Murder's heinous standard in this effort post would be a good example. Tsukanov should be cut, but I'll let others chime in.
Cut Jeser and Kerib.
Humanity is defined by its absurdity, and I am no exception.
Barb / Temporary Kylo
Sad cut to Jeser. Who knows, maybe some other stories will buff him out.
And...weird cut to Alexis I guess
The First man
Goku Black
Cut Alexis.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Not the Eye
Cut Alexis and Jester
Lean cut to Dmitri as well
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Cut Alexis and Jestr.
I'm leaning slight keep for Dmitry with the rapes. Show has 2900+ eps.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM DraftsCut Alexis and Jeser
Trace having near 3000 episodes makes lean more to cut Dmitry, as a police show with thar many episodes means they've must've had countless rapists and serial killers and a guy with only that handful of either doesn't really stand out to me
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
Not the Eye
Autumm did state that from what they saw most of episodes are more midsumer flavored (ie killer has group of specific tergets and then plans to stop).
But show having this many episode really is a double edged sword.
Even if only 1 in 10 episodes have a serial killer or serial rapist or something similar that's still near 300 episodes
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
An Eldritch Troper
If anything, the latest effort post has a serial killer who has a higher body count than Tsukanov. Yushkin has twelve and an attempted thirteenth kill, Tsukanov has five confirmed but might have more from the precinct shooting. The details of the precinct shooting are vague, but if we see a few dozen people in the precinct, then Tsukanov could have his kill count ramped up and he could stand out well against Yushkin and the other candidates.
It depends on the number of people present at the precinct and the number of people Tsukanov was shooting at there. ~PS 83147
Humanity is defined by its absurdity, and I am no exception.
Yeah I want a clarification on how many die at the precinct shooting and also how common Rape is in this series before I vote, but I have to admit I'm leaning to cut.
Bye
Cut Jeser and Kerib
Waiting for more discussion before I vote on Dmitry
Cut Jeser and Alexis Kerib.
Cut Jeser and Alexis
An Eldritch Troper
At Star Wars, can we sort the canon/Extended Universe examples by medium like we did with Legends? The canon folder is becoming quite messy, and I wonder if it would be neater to arrange the entries into "Multiple Works" and individual works in different types of media.
Humanity is defined by its absurdity, and I am no exception.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
We could do that; though for Multiple Works, Palpatine will need his own tree.
Also, I'll take care of those 2 cuts tonight.
EDIT: I think I got it.
Edited by ACW on Apr 12th 2023 at 8:06:01 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Okay having got up my final additions from the Morseverse (here
and here
for anyone who missed the discussions) it was felt it would be a good idea to revisit the franchise just to be absolutely sure that no one needs to be removed.
Now personally I think that whilst Endeavour has managed to have a surprising number of keepers (specifically 13), they all manage to stand out in their own niches. But I can understand if any one disagrees.
To give a quick overview of the present keepers:
Which leaves us:
Well those are my thoughts on why they all still keep. Anyone disagree, and feel anyone needs to be cut?
Edited by MGD107 on Apr 10th 2023 at 11:34:38 AM