Have an idea for a new trope, but don't know for sure if it's a good idea? Did Trope Finder give you similar concepts, but not exactly what you wanted? Are you just looking for a focus to a broader idea?
You've come to the right place!
On this thread, you can share your ideas with the masses before making that TLP draft, so if there's any lingering uncertainty about the validity of your idea or you just want some help pinning down a good idea, ask away and help others out, too!
A related sandbox I need to pitch is the Trope Idea Salvage Yard. If you've an idea but can't personally work on it, you can add it to the yard and let someone else create the draft. Or you can browse it yourself if you need more draft ideas, whether or not you feel they should be mentioned here first.
Got ideas for non-trope pages you need help with? Never fear, the New Page Workshop Thread
is here!
With that out of the way: Let's discuss some ideas.
Edited by MacronNotes on Feb 27th 2022 at 1:49:11 PM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Yes, I think that would work, and also to help keep from limiting it to Anime and Manga.
So, going with the suggestion:
Laconic: A character signals "no" or "not me" with their hands.
Body Language can convey many things without using words. Anger. Joy. Approval, and of course, disapproval.
And hands are very important to body language. It's amazing just how much can be said with hand gestures. Including telling someone "No" without necessarily using their voice.
Be it waving a hand dismissively, making an "X" of negation with arms or even just fingers, or any other gesture used to highlight a character's negative response or denial using their hands to convey the point
Could frequently be accompanied by a series of Little Nos. May overlap with Idiosyncratic Cultural Gesture.
Examples
Anime & Manga
- Lucky Star: Konata's cousin, Yui, is patrolling a festival in her duties as a police officer, and spots Konata and her friends. She tells Konata to listen to the "older girls" she's with and not cause any trouble. Kagami frantically waves her hand dismissively, mentally stating that they're all the same age and that Konata isn't normal.
- Toradora!: When dealing with Ami's behavior, Ryuji decides to ask Kushieda if a girl who was an airhead would openly declare herself to be an airhead as Ami did. Kushieda, known to the class as an airhead, firmly crosses her hands in front of her in an "X" with a stern look on her face.
Still need one more example.
Edited by TheLibrarian1701 on Mar 17th 2023 at 1:13:23 PM
I wonder if we could have an index for pages which have been basically completely troped?
Like Roundhay Garden Scene, The Progeny, and Allegretto, but perhaps a Really Short Film index would be more useful. There's a significant difference between a film that's only a few seconds to a minute long, vs. 10+ minutes?
Edited by Malady on Mar 17th 2023 at 12:21:38 PM
Disambig Needed: Help with those issues! tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13324299140A37493800&page=24#comment-576
"basically completely troped": that's extraordinarily hard, if not impossible, to measure. The detail and sometimes long lists that recap pages alone can reveal is evidence enough that there's almost always more to discuss if we go down into the weeds with our troping of those works.
And given the nature of the site's ever growing list of tropes, what may once have been considered "completely troped" may have been limited by the tropes we had at that point in time.
And I don't think the Short Film index needs to be subdivided further since whatever line we'd be picking would be arbitrary and meaningless. There's no difference in terms of medium, which short film is, between a 1 minute short film and a 10 min short film.
Edited by amathieu13 on Mar 17th 2023 at 3:39:26 PM
- If every line in a work that only has three, like that play, then it's pretty comprehensively troped, though?
Dialogue isn't the only thing that can be troped. Camera Tricks, Music, Mise en scène, facial expressions, body language, etc.
And again, see my point that the tropes we have today are not the end all, be all. There could be tropable aspects in the work that we just haven't created a trope for yet. Declaring works "completely troped" assumes a lot and is unnecessarily limiting
Edited by amathieu13 on Mar 17th 2023 at 12:38:49 PM
Yeah, we haven't troped every word of The Progeny, for one thing. I'll drop this since the only work that might truly fit is Hemingway's Six-Word Story.
Edited by Malady on Mar 17th 2023 at 9:56:47 AM
Disambig Needed: Help with those issues! tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13324299140A37493800&page=24#comment-576
I have one trope in mind: END OF ERA LEADS TO VILLAINY: A trope that describes how the end of one era or its appproaching end leads people who belonged to that era . It's sort of a cross between Endofan Age and Feeling Oppressed by Their Existence, except it's a character trope centering on a person's turn to wickedness due to an inability to adapt to new developments or to overcome a tie to the past.
EXAMPLES
Monsters Inc - Henry J Waternoose is dealing with an energy crisis, which forces him to employ drastic tactics.
Shane - Rufus Ryker is a cattle rancher whose reign is threatened by the new era of homesteaders who are encroaching on his territory and taking the best land for their homes, which is crippling his cattle.
Star Trek 6 - A conspiracy is put in place to stop a Klingon-Federation alliance, leaded by those who would stand to lose from peace.
Edited by TropeRoper on Mar 19th 2023 at 8:23:35 AM
Angry babby
Is it distinct from Necessarily Evil?
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Necessarily Evil characters are usually at least a little justified. A lot of times characters like this aren't justified, they just don't want to adjust to a new era. The thing that I wonder about more is whether it's too broad a concept.
Trans Siberian Anarchestra (it/they)
Was just watching clips earlier today from Requiem For A Dream where the mother is watching TV but suddenly imagines herself as part of the TV show itself.
This reminded me of the scene in Joker where Arthur imagines himself in the audience of Murray Franklin and being invited down to the stage.
Can't really find an existing trope for this specifically, but it seems it would be like "Television Daydream" or something. Someone imagines themselves to be part of the show they are watching.
The Draftsman of Doom
Laconic: A promiscuous character encounters a particular character who consistently rejects them.
On the one hand, you have people who are promiscuous with very low standards, but there is a particular person excluded from their roster of potential intimate partners, for whatever reason.
On the other hand, there are other promiscuous individuals who usually have their choice of intimate partners, and for whatever reason, there is one particular potential conquest who rejects them on a consistent basis.
Perhaps the rejector is not used to being pursued by partners with more experience; perhaps being the one who rejects the libertine's advances adds to the rejector's appeal to the point of the libertine being fully infatuated.
In any case, the situation can often result in a genuine attraction to the rejector, but can just as easily result in the rejector being lusted over by the libertine, or at the very least a bruised ego.
Supertrope to I Love You Because I Can't Control You, when seducers/manipulators/charmers become infatuated with people who are immune to their charms.
I'm helping!
The Little Kitty, Big City segment on this stream is reminding us of this recurring pattern where predator animals that are meant to be sympathetic get shown as interacting far more politely with their prey than they would in real life. In the showcase, they show the little kitty pouncing on birds, but strictly for the purpose of collecting their feathers; an NPC cat lampshades it by saying "this is a strictly catch and release neighborhood", and the little kitty themself can't imagine what they'd do with birds other than taking one feather and letting them go.
The pattern is mentioned on Carnivore Confusion, but it's potholed to The Pirates Who Don't Do Anything, rather than anything more specific.
Trouble Cube continues to be a general-purpose forum for those who desire such a thing.
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
Today I found out we don't have a Parody Movie or Parody Film page. Would it work as an index, or no?
TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
I have an idea that I know I've seen before, but there are three problems.
1. I can only recall two examples off of the top of my head
2. I don't know if it already exists.
3. I can't think of a title that isn't a catchphrase.
It's a subtrope of Heroic Sacrifice.
The idea is this:
A villain has a legitimate grievance, or at least believes that they do. They are out for blood as a result of that. All efforts to stop them have failed. Maybe they're an Implacable Man or Made of Iron. They might have a vastly superior military force at their disposal, or at least caught our heroes unprepared and with their defenses down. Maybe they're closer to a Physical God. Whatever the case there is not chance of defeating them in a straight fight.
And then someone steps forward. Not in challenge. Not to fight. They prostrate themselves before their enemy, and either declare themselves to be the guilty party or at least state that they will offer themselves up as a sacrifice to the villain if it will satiate their rage and allow them to spare their friends and family. Other times, the villain will explain their backstory, and demand the descendent of their tormentor or persecutor to answer for the sins of their forebears, usually a person who is completely innocent of any wrongdoing.
Sometimes the sacrifice is accepted, and the villain is bound by a bargain to leave the others be in peace. Other times, the villain will laugh off the offer and suggest that one life can't answer for the misery they've been subjected to. Very, very rarely, the villain will be moved by the offer and show Noble Demon tendencies, and recognize the effort as a sincere apology, and renounce their claim. In those instances, it might even be the early beginnings of a Heel–Face Turn.
If what is offered is service and fealty instead of a life, it's Kneel Before Zod. Closely related to Take Me Instead, where one character willingly offers themselves in exchange for another.
Examples
Anime & Manga
- Slayers TRY: Sylphiel has learned the Awful Truth, that her clan, the Golden Dragons, wiped out the Black Dragons for unjust reason, and that Valgaav's grievance against her people is legitimate. But his plan is to destroy the world and remake it, something she can't accept. She first offers herself as a sacrfice to Jillas, telling him that since his boss, Valgaav, hated her kind, then let him kill her and only her with his machine. Jillas can't do it. Then she faces Valgaav directly and begs him to stop, saying that she will offer herself up as sacrifice to atone for what her people did to his. Valgaav acknowledges her sincere apology with a sad smile, but won't be dissuaded from his cause.
Films — Live Action
- The Fog: Father Malone faces off against the ghost of Blake and tells him that his grandfather was responsible for sinking Blake's ship and stealing his gold. He offers himself as sacrifice to Blake as well as the gold, which his grandfather had moulded into the shape of a large crucifix. Blake seizes that cross and it begins to glow, and Blake and his whole crew vanish. Then, after those who had sought refuge in the church leave, Father Malone wonders why he wasn't taken, only for the fog to return and Blake to end the film by killing Father Malone.
- Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan: After Khan reveals himself to Kirk, he states his intent is to avenge himself on Kirk for the events of "Space Seed". (ignoring the fact that he chose exile to Ceti Alpha V instead of prison). The Enterprise is in bad shape, having been caught off-guard, and cannot defeat Reliant with her shields up. Kirk offers himself as a sacrifice, "Khan, if it's me you want, I'll have myself beamed aboard. Spare my crew." Fortunately for Kirk, Khan wanted more than that, and said he would also desire all information on Project Genesis. This gives Kirk time to do what he does best, cheat death with a cunning plan.
Edited by TheLibrarian1701 on Mar 21st 2023 at 10:53:23 AM
That seems related, but is more about offering oneself up in exchange for another, specific person, as I'm reading the page. Also, that states that it might end in a death, but the one I'm proposing is about someone knowingly, or having an expectation of going off to die,
EDIT:
Also specific to my proposal is that the villain's grievance is legitimate. They were wronged, and they're looking for someone to answer for that.
A Life For Past Sins as a title, perhaps?
2ND EDIT: Or at least the villain believes there is a legitimate grievance. Not simply someone trying to conquer the world and asking for sacrifices to prove loyalty or such.
Edited by TheLibrarian1701 on Mar 21st 2023 at 10:45:48 AM
I've thought of and added a third example, but I'm still looking for a good title.
Zoro sacrificing himself to Kuma for Luffy and others seems like it counts too.
Discord: Waido X 255#1372 If you cant contact me on TV Tropes do it here.
I'm not familiar with the details, but propose the example on TLP. Im going to try a tentative title and we can change it there if a better proposal comes along
Murder As A Rite Of Passage: the next level from Gang Initiation Fight. I can think of a handful of examples from police shows, and the real life things many of those are based on (but I think there needs to be caution on that end).
Edited by JethroQWalrustitty on Mar 22nd 2023 at 1:41:05 PM
Perhaps, but I'm thinking more specifically as an underworld thing (criminal organizations, La Résistance) to prove your loyalty and trustworthiness (the latter overlaps with If You're So Evil, Eat This Kitten!, which, btw, is kinda unweildy as a name and bit vaguely defined)
The supertrope to Gang Initiation Fight is Initiation Ceremony but seeing as that's fairly broad, I think an "Initiation by Killing" trope would work. While gangs are the obvious source, there are works about sororities, fraternities, secret orgs, etc. that would also fit.
ETA: On second thought, looking over A Real Man Is a Killer and I think that does cover this with Tropes Are Flexible. The 3rd paragraph discusses how a variation of it is for organized combat forces and there are several on page examples about that.
Edited by amathieu13 on Mar 22nd 2023 at 8:48:47 AM
