Edit: I've created the index. So far I've added only those pages that have mandatory waiting periods already in effect.
It's been brought up in a few places recently (most notably in this ATT thread
) that we have a few tropes / Audience Reactions / etc. that have mandatory waiting periods before being added. The suggestion has been made— which I tend to agree with— that some sort of index to keep track of which tropes have waiting periods and what those periods are would be helpful.
Besides what's already on the index, we've got:
- Specific Mandatory Waiting Period Suggested:
- Critical Dissonance - Brought up here as being too early to call on release weekend. Fighteer suggests a one-month mandatory waiting period on all similar "reception tropes."
- Overshadowed by Controversy - a 6-month mandatory waiting period has been suggested but not agreed upon yet
- The Scrappy - Due to its close association with Base-Breaking Character and its status as a complaining magnet, has been suggested for a 6-month waiting period in this thread.
- Critical Dissonance - Brought up here
- No specific waiting period has been suggested, but adding it too early has caused problems:
- Eight Deadly Words - It was suggested here that the below should apply to this as well
- So Bad, It's Good - Fighteer noted here that the weekend of release was too early to apply tropes like these
- So Okay, It's Average - see above
- Eight Deadly Words - It was suggested here
Template tag for work pages:
%% Per Administrivia/NoRecentExamplesPlease, do not add [Trope] until [X] months/days/weeks after the episode's release (Month Date, Year).
Use this date calculator to add the amount of months/days/weeks in accordance to No Recent Examples, Please!.
- As mentioned here, the consensus is that NREP warnings in trope page descriptions can use bold text so that they stand out.
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 23rd 2024 at 9:41:59 AM
he/him
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Absolutely. Given we've used six months for so many other reception tropes, I'd be tempted to go for that. Especially when examples include episodic tv shows, comics etc.
"The Juice is Loose."
6 months is not a bad idea.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
She / Her
I agree with giving Star-Making Role and Rescued from the Scrappy Heap waiting periods to prevent knee-jerk reactions. In the former's case, I think 6 months works.
The Man Outside Reality
I feel that a six month waiting period for anything is unnecessarily long. Including for what's mentioned above.
Trust no one.
he/him
Critic-Proof has now been on the crowner for a week and is stable with 10 votes and a 4:1 ratio in favour.
. (added June 18, 2023)
Are we now good to call this in favour?
As it's currently the only open vote on the crowner, it might also be an opportunity to ask the mods to remove/reset the crowner entirely?
he/him
And now called/closed.
How's this for the on-page note:
(she/her)
Forgot to post but the crowner has clear consensus guidelines so you can all just follow that. The crowner is supposed to be mostly community run so non-mods can call individual crowner options but they can't edit options they didn't create because of the crowner overhaul in 2021.
Anyways, looks fine and I'll swap in a new crowner.
Edited by MacronNotes on Jun 25th 2023 at 8:42:37 AM
Macron's notes
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
Bringing up this old comment again. Does Star-Derailing Role need a time limit, like the other Killer tropes? And for how long?
he/him
Revisiting old posts: Adaptation Displacement has been added to the crowner:
and here. Added to crowner 25 June, 2023.
(I'll do an ATT to raise awareness later today, including any other tropes added in the interim)
he/him
Next up - the various ambiguity tropes for sexuality and gender. The proposal is to only add NREP for episodic works, so that we're not getting examples for something immediately clarified in the next few episodes / same arc.
- Ambiguously Gay (end of season for episodic works, or three months for episodic works without seasons - both measured from the introduction of the ambiguity. No NREP waiting period for non-episodic works): To allow episodic stories a chance to develop characters and resolve initial ambiguity. Discussed here. (added June 25, 2023)
- Ambiguously Bi (end of season for episodic works, or three months for episodic works without seasons - both measured from the introduction of the ambiguity. No NREP waiting period for non-episodic works): To allow episodic stories a chance to develop characters and resolve initial ambiguity. Discussed here. (added June 25, 2023)
- Ambiguous Gender (end of season for episodic works, or three months for episodic works without seasons - both measured from the introduction of the ambiguity. No NREP waiting period for non-episodic works): To allow episodic stories a chance to develop characters and resolve initial ambiguity. Discussed here. (added June 25, 2023)
- Ambiguous Gender Identity (end of season for episodic works, or three months for episodic works without seasons - both measured from the introduction of the ambiguity. No NREP waiting period for non-episodic works): To allow episodic stories a chance to develop characters and resolve initial ambiguity. Discussed here. (added June 25, 2023)
Adding them all to the crowner now.
he/him
I'd think so, yes.
Creator Killer and Genre-Killer are ten years. Franchise Killer and Trend Killer are five years. Ten feels a very long time for this one, though - maybe five?
Career Resurrection also has a five year rule after the resurrection, but isn't clear how long their career had to 'die' for first. Might be worth addressing that at the same time, as the two should probably be consistent?
(Also, some of the NREP notes on the intros for those tropes don't look great to me - this might be a good opportunity to tidy up and standardise them a well)
Edited by Mrph1 on Jun 25th 2023 at 2:36:09 PM
"The Juice is Loose."
I disagree. I feel like it attracts a lot of knee jerk reactions of "this is going to make blank a star" only for six months later that not to be the case. Now that said I think if six months is to much a one month waiting period at least is a good idea.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
he/him
This. As with many of these reaction tropes, waiting gives us more perspective and reduces the amount of Speculative Troping cleanup we need later.
Edited by Mrph1 on Jun 25th 2023 at 7:07:47 PM
The Man Outside Reality
I wasn't referring to Star-Making Role specifically. I just generally am not a fan of six month waiting periods for YMMV tropes, outside of a few exceptions like Broken Base and Base-Breaking Character.
Trust no one.
My proposal:
Star-Derailing Role (again): 5 years, unless the role causes the creator to retire.
Rescued from the Scrappy Heap: This one is tricky. I previously remember suggesting six months (since that's the same length for The Scrappy, Base-Breaking Character and Creator's Pet), but it was deemed too long. I believe it should be at least a month, to ensure that the character was actually rescued, though I'm still leaning towards six.
he/him
Star-Derailing Role sounds good.
I've just been discussing Rescued from the Scrappy Heap over on the Scrappy cleanup thread, and I was actually going to pitch a longer NREP if they supported it:
- Nine months (from the point when the character is introduced or becomes hated, whichever is later) for characters who were previously The Scrappy or a similar trope (e.g. Replacement Scrappy, Damsel Scrappy or Ethnic Scrappy)
- No NREP waiting period for gaming characters who were a High-Tier Scrappy or Low-Tier Letdown.
This is to allow time to establish them as the original trope (e.g. The Scrappy currently has its own six month NREP rule) before winning back the fans.
- High-Tier Scrappy and Low-Tier Letdown are all about play balance for video/tabletop games. Very different to the other Scrappy scenarios.
- Nine months is six months for the character to initially qualify as TheScrappy, then three months to judge the shift in fan reaction (which is likely to be based on sequels or later episodes in most cases). It would seem very odd to list someone as TheScrappy at the six month mark, then as Rescued a day later.
- Ethnic Scrappy and Damsel Scrappy don't currently have the same six month rule but, unless anyone objects, it's probably simpler to keep Rescued consistent rather than have a list of wait times for the different variations.
When The Scrappy itself is six months, I can't see how a shorter NREP limit allows a valid example of the Scrappy (with the exceptions above) before the character is rescued?
Edited by Mrph1 on Jun 25th 2023 at 10:51:32 AM
he/him
Revisiting Role Reprise, which was mentioned a while back - we have a NREP rule, but because voice acting and unrelated works are special cases, we don't have a consensus on what some scenarios actually mean. And some seemed to be getting complicated, leading to an ATT...
Based on previous discussion, I was going to suggest this approach, which seemed to match the original troper's aims - presumably we can use the usual crowner route to get agreement once there's a final proposal?
- For the same character in the same franchise (for the purposes of this trope, any Alternate Universe or Alternate Continuity versions are treated as if they were the same character):
- Reprising a role as a voice actor: five years since the actor last played the role (whether in voice or live action).
- For a live action reprise of a live action role: five years since the last live action appearance in the role. Any voice acting during the interim (e.g. for games or animation) doesn't disqualify the reprise.
- For a live action debut, reprising a role from voice acting: a minimum of five years since the actor last voiced the role.
- For Public Domain Characters and Historical Domain Characters:
- As above if it's within the same work or franchise (e.g. playing JFK repeatedly in the same TV series)
- No NREP limitation if the productions are completely unrelated - e.g. if you play a version of Ronald Reagan in Doctor Who, then play him again in a biographical film the following year, that still counts as a reprise.
(Or is there any way we can simplify this?)
Edit: updated the Public Domain Characters and Historical Domain Characters exception from works to productions
Edited by Mrph1 on Jun 30th 2023 at 12:07:31 PM
The Man Outside Reality
Where does a character returning after a Soft Reboot and/or a Continuity Reboot from the franchise fall under in these guidelines?
he/him
I'd put that under "for the purposes of this trope, any Alternate Universe or Alternate Continuity versions are treated as if they were the same character"
he/him
50 years from the point the hunt ended seemed to have support for Witch Hunt in Real Life.
Probably good to add that proposal to the crowner now, if there's nobody here objecting?
he/him
Witch Hunt has been added to the Crowner:
, here and here. Added to crowner June 27, 2023.
Pinging ~nrjxll for awareness.
I'll put an ATT up later, unless anyone else wants to - if any other tropes get added to the crowner today, we can combine them into one post.
Edited by Mrph1 on Jun 27th 2023 at 2:20:46 PM
he/him
Star-Derailing Role has been added to the crowner:
, here and here. Added to crowner June 27, 2023.
Pinging ~thecarolinabull01 and ~The Mayor of Simpleton for awareness.
Edited by Mrph1 on Jun 27th 2023 at 2:21:01 PM
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
he/him
Re: Rescued from the Scrappy Heap (as mentioned here.
There was a suggestion on the Scrappy Cleanup thread that we add 1 month NREP for the two gaming scenarios it rescues, Low-Tier Letdown and High-Tier Scrappy, to allow time for gamers to complete the game and react.
If there's no concern I'll add to the crowner with:
- 1 month for rescuing the gaming scenarios
- 9 months for rescuing all other kinds of scrappy (the normal 6 month The Scrappy NREP plus 3 months for the rescue to change the audience response). If it's not valid as The Scrappy six months in, it's not going to be valid for Rescued either.
Edit: We did have a suggestion for 7 months on the Scrappy thread, but it was followed by other tropers preferring 9.
Any concerns?
Edited by Mrph1 on Jun 27th 2023 at 1:25:17 PM
