During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
- Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.
- What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
- Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
- Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
- Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
- Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
- Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.
- What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.
- Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.
- What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
- Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
- Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
- List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
- The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.
- How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.
- What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.
- What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.
- What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.
- Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.
- What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.
- Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.
- What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.
- Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.
- My example/edit has been approved, but the example subpage is locked! How do I get it added?: The moderators do not add examples to locked example subpages in the MagnificentBastard/ namespace directly. Rather, you need to do the edit to a sandbox page that follows the format Sandbox.MagnificentBastard<Name of the example subpage> (e.g for MagnificentBastard.Fullmetal Alchemist it's Sandbox.Magnificent Bastard Fullmetal Alchemist) and on a Friday, ask in the locked pages edit requests thread for the content to be swapped in.
Thread rules
When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.
Resolved items
In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.
However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.
This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.
Definitely an MB
- Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers: Any sadism Darkrai displays is limited in effect thanks to the game's nature and any cowardice which can be inferred about him is Alternative Character Interpretation about his tactical retreats.
- Avatar: The Last Airbender: Azula's Villainous Breakdown is undone in the sequel comic Smoke & Shadow where she regains her composure and ends up stable and in control enough to count.
Definitely not an MB
- South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM
With my added points people are starting to switch from abstaining to voting yes, so with that does anyone else want to vote for Toyla? Here's where I first EP him and here's where I made my new points for Toyla
Edited by G-Editor on Sep 26th 2022 at 11:56:09 AM
Classy, Refined, Unstable
I like the last quote there Pap.
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Happy Birthday interests!
Yes to Tolya and Furious.
Work
Dave is a political comedy-drama about an employment agency owner who is hired to be a body double for the president while he is in a coma. While initially just acting as a placeholder to keep the supposedly unbalanced vice-president from seizing the presidency, Dave ultimately begins acting as president to try and accomplish good works while clashing with his evil Chief of Staff Bob Alexander (the kingmaker behind the real president).
Who is Alan Reed and what does he do?
Alan is the White House communications director and a long-time aide and confidant of the extremely selfish President Bill Mitchell. He aided Mitchell and Nance in at least one act of violating election finance laws in an incident called First Liberty, a few months before the film begins.
Mitchell has a heart attack while having sex with a secretary and Alan is the first person on the scene, briefing Bon on the president’s medical condition (he will never fully recover). He is about to notify the Vice President when Nance angrily refuses and says to tell the press it was a mild stroke while they have Dave pose as Mitchelll. Alan is skeptical and uneasy but complies.
When they meet Dave, Alan compliments his past impersonation and is polite while Bob is cold and brooding. He lies that the president will recover and persuasively tells Dave that America can’t look weak to other countries with Mitchell sick while using some moving and logical sounding analogies to persuade a reluctant Dave it is the right thing to do. Bob claims Vice President Nance is mentally unbalanced when Dave says they should just summon him.
Alan lies to the press about what happened to sell the story but then wearily shows concern about how many laws they are breaking. He quickly deduces the ultimate goal of the deception is to stall until they have an excuse to force out the vice President and then make Bob Vice President and have “President Mitchell” have another stroke so Bib can take over. Alan then discussed how he has done damage control (bribing the medical staff, getting the secret service to life go along and telling Ellen the First Lady-who hates her husband-the truth about the strokes origin but lying about its severity).
Alan helps educate Dave on political details he needs to know for the deception. He tells Dave they don’t expect miracles of him but to know Mitchell’s tics. He also reveals that he wrote Mitchell’s most famous slogan, which Dave compliments, by which point the two are becoming genuinely friendly.
Alan can’t find any real dirt to use on Nance so, on his own initiative, he decides to frame Nance for the First Liberty scandal and is a bit proud of watching the scheme bear fruit.
Bob vetoes a bill that will help homeless kids and Alan apologized but tries to justify it while arguing it’s for the greater good and its too hard to understand the budget. Dave goes behind their backs to readjust the budget and afford it anyway. Alan is genuinely touched and impressed and joins everyone besides Bob in clapping for Dave. He defends Alan against Bob’s anger (Bob contemplates assassin sting Dave) and ultimately refuses to help him out of a new sense of loyalty to Dave, even saying they will go to jail together if Bob pushes things.
Later Dave fires Bob himself since Bob will face treason charges if he reveals the truth. Alan sides with Dave and supports him as he proposed a bold new employment program.
Alan is moderately contrite when Dave learns the truth about Vice President Nance and confronts him, but blames it on Bob.
Bob tries to rope Mitchell into the First Liberty scandal and Alan reveals to Dave that the real Mitchell is guilty. Alan gives Dave the evidence to exonerate Nance and expose Bob, then ends the movie loyally serving Nance after Dave fakes another heart attack with the help of Alan, Ellen, and a secret service agent.
Magnificent
He is the reliable details guy in the Mitchell administration, both sleazy and reputable parts. He can keep up with Bob’s plans, does the detail work in covering up the stroke, ends up impressed enough by Dave’s good deeds to help him, and ultimately ends the movie free, apparently redeemed, and in a position of trust with the new president.
Bastard
He did help Mitchell violate election laws, frames Nance and is initially willing to help Bob steal the presidency while tricking Dave into impersonating Mitchell. He also is willing to ignore some f the more unjust things about how the country is run until Dave opens his eyes to how things can be done better and its possible to be both efficient and open-hearted.
Alright, doing this now after all.
What is the work?
VeggieTales is a Christian CGI cartoon with a silly sense of humor and family friendly tone. To give an example, Haman, the CM, is bowdlerized into sending Jews to the land of perpetual tickling. While some villains, such as Mr. Nezzer's incarnation from "Rack, Shack, and Benny," are realistically threatening, the silly songs (canonically their own thing) are about as tame as they come. This song in particular sings of a veterinarian with an unorthodox method of healing and his assistant, who might be just bad enough to count.
Who is he? What does he do?
The Nurse of the Yodeling Veterinarian of the Alps (played by Pa Grape) is the famous vet's (Larry the Cucumber) assistant in his practice. With people coming far and near for a cure to their pets' afflictions, the vet would yodel, which would supposedly make the pets feel better "in a day or two." However, it's quickly revealed that the vet is going a little loopy, and in reality, the nurse gives proper medical advice to their clients, and the pets thereafter feeling better. After two onscreen sessions and a line about their profits soaring, everything seemed to be going well until the nurse (offscreen) asked for a pay raise. The vet considered this, then (onscreen) said, "No way Jose!" As a result, when the next patient brings in a bear with its feet caught in traps, the vet sings like normal, then when the bear is angry, the nurse simply says, "Oh yeah, that'll do it" and lets the bear go after the vet. While it's never clarified if the nurse planned things this way or simply took advantage of the situation, the narrative clearly frames this as revenge, and the song ends on the note, "When you go a little loopy, better keep your nurse well paid."
Is he magnificent?
The nurse is very skilled at his job, helping an ill penguin return to health and ensuring a cat safely gives birth to six kittens. When he gets phone calls on their status, he's genuinely happy to report the good news. His demeanor is very professional, and despite only a minor singing role, his lines are performed well. Besides asking for a raise, everything he does works out exactly as he'd wanted.
Is he a bastard? Too much?
I mean, he does let his employer get bullied around by an angry bear. While the vet is a bit of a jerk for declining the pay raise the way he did, that's still disproportionate retribution. This being Veggie Tales, none of this was played gruesomely (some shoving around plus offscreen injuries), but with a line about this encounter being "one fateful day," if this attack didn't seriously injure the vet, it definitely made a pretty serious point.
What is the competition?
For the song itself, the nurse is both the most magnificent and the most bastardly, no questions. For the silly songs as a whole (which again, are incredibly lighthearted), he definitely stands out as well. That being said, his one bad deed here is small potatoes against characters from the show proper, who throw the protagonists to the lions, build elaborate lotus traps, and rig the ballots for a song contest with no prize. I genuinely don't know what kind of baseline we should be using in this case.
Link?
Verdict?
You guys decide.
Yes to Tolya, Furious, Alam Reed and I don't see anything holding the Nurse back. I feel like he just makes the mark.
Also yes to Tanya from Futurama.
I just saw the first Men in Black movie, no keepers there unless we count the Anti-Hero protagonists, which is debatable. I'd like if someone could tell me about the other movies as I know next to nothing about the franchise other than the first movie and that there's a CM in 3.
Edited by Klavice on Sep 26th 2022 at 9:58:09 AM
I think it'd be really hard to find a keeper in the MIB movies. Closest is probably "Edgar the Bug" from the first movie and he has disqualifiers to say the least.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Might as well get rid of the other HTTYD character out the way for now so I can do the writeups together if they both work out well. In book 4 and 7 there's another enemy of Hiccup who I think may qualify, Norbert The Nutjob who doesn't do much in book 4 to be worth considering but makes up for it in book 7 I believe and there's a minor cameo in book 12 which sorts out my major issue with him.
Who is Norbert The Nutjob and what does he do?
Book 4 (so you guys can get a bit of context towards Norbert's enmity towards Hiccup)
Due to winter freezing over the sea, the vikings can travel over by sleigh to the various islands which some of Hiccup's tribe do, to an island near Norbert's home of Hysteria. While there, Hiccup's closest friend Fishlegs sorts of haves a breakdown and threatens Norbert which provokes the Viking to attacking back leading to a skiing chase down the hills they were on with Norbert being relentless until the end.
Later Hiccup sneaks into Hysteria to steal the potato (trust me sounds stupid but there's a lot of tragic context towards this) to save Fishlegs from an venom bite caused by Alvin in the last book. Unfortunately, Hiccup gets caught by Norbert who remembers him and the chase. Norbert decides to sentence Hiccup to TRIAL BY AXE where he does a coin flip... with his axe. Although it almost ends on the death side, Hiccup flips it, angering Norbert. To not defy fate, Norbert lets him live, albeit in a cage. Hiccup's friends later escape with the potato and an object called The Ticking Thing with Norbert giving chase.
Over the ice sheets back to Berk, the ice cracks unleashing a sea dragon called the Doomfang that was lurking outside Hysteria for the past 15 years due to Norbert's father having the potato which would cure the illness it had. With the Doomfang stealing the potato and eating it, it swims away content, making Norbert realise that Hiccup has freed his tribe from being isolated during the warmer months, letting Hiccup and his friends go. Norbert later has a cameo in the 5th book during the Exterminator/volcano issue with the tribe but doesn't say or do anything notable.
Book 7
Norbert returns in Book 7 on a quest with his tribe to America to see the new world. When the Hooligan, Bog-Burgular and Murderous tribes have a "friendly" swimming race, Norbert strikes a deal with the Murderous chief, Madguts, to have some of his dragons kidnap Hiccup and he'll provide him a way to cheat in the race, allowing Madguts to win and formulate his own plan for revenge against his ancestor.
When Norbert and Hiccup meet again, he puts him through trial of axe, this time making sure Hiccup can't twist it, only stopping to execute him and his friends when Hiccup points out that only he can read the Ticking Thing. Over the journey, Hiccup's able to see how far Norbert has planned this trip with the book showcasing all of ideas along the ship, one most notable thing being an airhorn which keeps sea dragons at bay.
Later in the story, Hiccup falls into the hull of the ship where it's shown that Norbert has a tribe of slaves to row the boat forward (don't worry I'll go into that in the "Bastard section".) Norbert manages to get Hiccup out of there, knowing that he was the only ticket to America. Much later in the story when they see the outline of America, Norbert gets ready to kill Hiccup for serving his purpose, adding about the antics that he put Norbert through.
Hiccup manages to rile the Hysteric's against each other by citing that Norbert hates Redheads and only wants Blondes in the new world causing a mini mutiny to commence, leading to the destruction of the airhorn, allowing a sea dragon that has been tracking them for a month now to finally strike. In the ensuing combat, Norbert has a Villainous Breakdown and chases Hiccup up the mast of the ship while it's being chomped down by the sea dragon, engaging in a fight with Hiccup at the top, almost killing before a bolt of lightning strikes Norbert's axe and plummets him to the sea, seemingly killing him.
Book 12
The final book reveals that Norbert was saved by the same tribe of human's he had once enslaved and later has a cameo at the human rallying to support Hiccup to be king, not Alvin, now with the mark that the humans who oppose Alvin, showing that he's let bygones be bygones and respects the boy now.
Is he magnificent?
Now to be honest, Norbert doesn't really do much in the 4th Book, he's just the main antagonist and to be honest does suffer from slapstick but he willingly allows Hiccup and his friends to go this one time out of gratitude for them releasing his tribe from the Doomfang.
The 7th book is where Norbert shines with his journey towards America, striking the deal with Madguts to provide a means for him to get the Ticking Thing back and showcasing the precautions and inventions he takes to fend off any threats to the boats. His Villainous Breakdown I think get's nullified by his brief appearance in book 12 where he's become a part of the tribe he once enslaved and shows up to support Hiccup to be king.
Now a major problem for him? He's called Norbert the Nutjob and yes Norbert is quite crazy. In his defence? He's crazy not stupid as he shows restraint to not killing Hiccup when points out that he can't read the Ticking Thing. And because his appearance in 12 shows he's calmed down a lot more I think he's good?
Is he a bastard?
Well there's trying to kill the heroes for one, making the deal with Madguts to help him get revenge against the Hooligans and the biggest problem, the slaves on the ship. Now yes Norbert has slaves of all ages in the bottom of the ship but all he does mostly is threaten them not the in depth cruelty that Alvin later demonstrates. And since he ends up making peace with them saving him after his fall into the ocean, I'd say he crawls out of that problem.
Verdict?
Eh... I'm not sure but he's been sitting on my to do for ages and I just did Furious so up to you guys!
As for book characters that's all I can think of because the only other 2 who have the intelligence and charisma (Alvin and Excellinor) are way too horrible in Books 10 - 12.
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
To the first and third Hitman quotes.
Caesar
Yes to Tolya, Furious, the Hitman quotes, and Alan. Still reading the two above.
Gonna snag the new BBC show Inside Man, see potential there.
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
Goku Black
Tolya, Furious, Alan and Norbert.
to Director Alan Reed and The Nurse of the Yodeling Veterinarian of the Alps
Yes to Alan, the Nurse and Norbert.
Also 'to do' is manageable for length but some entries have been sitting there a while, upwards of a week at least. Can we get to those please? Especially since this page has quite the wave of new EPs that seem to all be passing.
Edited by 43110 on Sep 27th 2022 at 7:53:42 AM
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Alan, Nurse
Once Norbert gets a few more votes I'll do my writeups for Furious and maybe him (depending how he goes)since it'll let me kill two birds with one stone alright?
Edited by WetFlannels on Sep 27th 2022 at 3:36:00 PM
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Goku Black
Btw since we're in a more free time. I was uh kinda wondering since he got brought up.
Would Virgil be worth a second look? Not just his split personality. I know we shot him down for getting punked by Arkham in the third game. But he's now had an entire game to bounce back.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Reed, Nurse, & Norbert
I had a mandela effect here, but has Gabriel been discussed?
Goku Black
From memory he was only briefly touched on in like the first few pages of the thread and than we didn't go more into it.
Tbh I wouldn't mind seeing him get an ep now.
Edited by miraculous on Sep 27th 2022 at 10:27:07 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
The MILF Virus
So I was rechecking Spirit Hunter: NG because the sequel is coming out and there is a character I think who is also worth checking out. Last time I covered this, which was a year ago, I talked about one of the main allies of the game, the shady journalist Naomasa Ban, but this time were gonna talk about one of the spirits you face in this game, and unlike others she actually has a chance to qualify. I present to you Killer Peach.
What is the setting?
Spirit Hunter: NG is a horror visual novel and sequel to Death Mark which revolves around another curse and another evil doll. The story is about Akira, a young delinquent who ends up getting involve with the nekomata doll spirit Kakuya, who forced him to play the "Kakuya Game" a game where the person is given a curse with the only way to remove it is to hunt down a spirit of Kakuya's choosing with failure resulting in the player succumbing the curse, though usually every person who was force to play do end up dying whether from Kakuya's curse, her antics, or even the spirits she sends them to search, or driven to the brink of insanity. To force him, Kakuta kidnapped his beloved younger cousin and told him he has to play it if he wants her back.
With his friends and associates, Akira does exactly that and plays her game, investigating and hunting down the spirits she has him face, where he ends uncovering a deeper conspiracy then he first thought, particularly about his heritage and his connection to Kakuya. Amidst his investigation he ends up having to face Killer Peach, a beheaed female spirit wielding a katana, and the head of either a pheasant, dog, or monkey, similar to the tale of Momotaro hench her nickname, haunting a corporate HQ murdering a number of working men.
Little does Akira and his allies learn, Killer Peach isn't some random vengeful spirit, she's actually a victim to the same conspiracy Akira is uncovering who's out there to seek vengeance for it.
Who is Killer Peach (Tomoko Okayama) and what does she do?
In life, Killer Peach was Tomoko Okayama, a former DIET woman and mother of one of the many victims in the infamous Masaru Incident where during Christmas Day, a fire in Momoi Department Store which countless families. Suspecting that it wasnt a simple accident, Okayama decided to investigate it herself later figuring out that this was actually an arson murder-suicide committed by Masaru Ishimaru, the son of business tycoon Noboru Ishimaru. Learning that Noboru hid the actual truth, Okayama tried to gather evidence to prove his crime, but unfortunately Ishimaru caught wind and had her captured and then executed by his 5/5 Club, a group consisting of his closest men, beheading her and then disposing her body.
Angered by them escaping justice, Okayama's spirit lingered and eventually morphed into the ghost Killer Peach, a form she took up base on how her son viewed her liking to Momotaro as his personal hero. With a katana of her own, Killer Peach stalk the Ishimaru HQ to hunt down the 5/5 Club and Noboru to get her revenge, killing them one-by-one via beheading of her own. To make sure none of her targets would be spooked and leave the building and escaping, Killer Peach slowly spread the killings around to make sure that the killings will not alarm them until it was too late, prefering to kill them while they were alone to make sure they don't suspect it was her spirit who came back.
With all of her targets killed, Okayama had just one more target, Noboru himself. Stalking the Moon Tower, Killer Peach haunts the area looking for him, with her being spotted by the workers occasionally. As the latest spirit assigned by Kakuya to Akira to hunt down, he along with Ban, Rose, and the detective Reina Ooe who was assign to investigate the killings of Killer Peach, ends up investigating the Moon Tower and the areas of her murders. Killer Peach immediately notices this and the moment the group enters, from brief sightings of her in the very beginning. Noticing they have been poking around the desk of her victims and discussing about them and the rumors surrounding her, Killer Peach becomes suspicious and confronts them wanting to know why they were snooping, nearly killing them when they ended up gaining the scent of one of her victims had Ooe didn't pull a distraction, who Killer Peach chases and corners but let's go realizing she was not her target.
By the end of the investigation the group has figured out Killer's Peach's identity and the scandal witht he 5/5 Club, all the while facing Killer Peach and barely surviving her confrontations by using her weaknesses with scents, with one of them having Ooe beheaded when she ended up provoking Killer Peach by accident although she does come back to life later thanks to space time distortion. With everything gathered the group ends up facing her in a distorted space that has tranformed the building into it's previous incarnation as a department store where they battle Killer Peach after she kills Ooe once more, and either ends with Killer Peach being fooled with the scent of cologne of her last target around, cutting herself down in a panic which leads to a bad ending where Killer Peach's grudge allowed her to survive long enough to get revenge and skewer your partner, or playing a VHS which reveals that Noboru Ishimaru is dead, meaning she'd need to pass on to get her revenge in the afterlife which she let's go the group and seemingly moves on to the next life.
That said, when investigating Moon Tower again for Demon Tsukuyomi another spirit who, wast the distorting space and time which led to Killer Peach being brought back and unable to move on. Confronting you due to having her katana which gifted to you before in after beating her, she learns about the distortion and Akira defeating her, and decided to entrust him to finish what she could not as she leaves him alone. In the end Killer Peach gets her just karma as she becomes the key to defeating Demon Tsukuyomi, who was later revealed as Masaru Ishimaru, Noboru's son and the arsonist who murdered her family, when Akira summons her with her katana which allows her to fight him and exorcist him, destroying the Demon Tsukuyomi and freeing the spirits of his victim who were force to merge with him during the fire, saving her husband and son from the beyond and finally able to move on with them as her duty complete.
Is she Magnificent?
Absolutely, Killer Peach in life figured out and nearly proven the Club 5/5's crimes despite their power through sheer will and instinct, and in death manage to avenge her gruesome end by killing her murders in a slow and methodical way in order not to provoke them like she did before by spacing them out enough to avoid suspicion until it was too late for them and doing it while they are alone so there's not enough witnesses to potential clue them in she's Tomoko Okayama. Sure there is that issue with her potentially being trapped in an eternal loop to look for Ishimaru had it not been Akira proving her he died but that was beyond her control since she had no way to know since she is left in her domain the Moon Tower.
And as a spirit, Killer Peach is the spirit in the series aside from the Big Bad who actually uses cunning and strategy against the main heroes, from using brief glimpses to try intimadating them away, to being able to remain rational compared to other spirits to gather more info from Akira and co to see if they pose a threat to her or not and in the attack is cold but swift in trying to execute them with them surviving by having to use her inherit weakness as a spirit or her letting them go.
And she does ultimately succeed in getting what she want by pulling a gamble and trusting Akira after seeing him have her katana, believing him when he claims to have defeated, giving him her katana once more to summon her if he needs which in the fight against the Demon Tsukuyomi. It's end up becoming the final blow for the demon who was the spirit of the killer of her family, with Killer Peach summon and executing him, freeing her families soul and becoming the hero her son saw her as.
Too Much of a Bastard:
Now while Killer Peach is one of the "kinder" spirits, she won't kill unlucky bystanders like other spirits would, she will still execute does she view as a threat brutally, including Ooe who had nothing to do with her murder, but being a detective and trying to insist as a law enforcer she will help her, Killer Peach had no qualms beheading her multiple times for provoking her and before trying to do the same to the group. Considering in life the law did not help her at all, they actually hinder her, it shows while genuinely less harmless she still will kill people who had nothing to do with her death if the wrong buttons are push, including kids like Akira.
Final Verdict:
Checking the game once more I think she has a really strong case for this trope considering some characters I see approved her even with a few hiccups here and there, but ultimately you guys decide.
"Are you the devil?" "Don't compare to me to those small fry" - Mir
to Reed, The Nurse, Norbert, and Killer Peach
As I said on the CM forum, Hurricane Ian is coming to the Florida Gulf coast today and hopefully my dad and I will be prepared. Here's are my write-ups now in case we loose electricity
- Metro series:
- Last Light: Pavel Morozov is a cunning yet friendly soldier of the Red Line who manages to escape from a Nazi concentration camp while taking Artyom Chyornyj with him where they bond throughout their journey. With Pavel’s friendship with Artyom only surpassed by his loyalties to the Red Line, Pavel drugs Artyom and takes him to his superior, Czeslav Korbut, to be interrogated before being sent to Venice. Getting captured in Venice, Pavel is able to escape from his imprisonment before meeting with Korbut, where Pavel is assigned to unleash a bioweapon into the D6 bunker to weaken its defense line for Korbut’s invasion, while ambushing Artyom upon seeing him.
- Exodus:
- Saul is a high-ranking member of Munai-bailer who plots to overthrow The Baron and replace him with a Body Double for Saul to manipulate into running the gang in Saul’s direction. Working with Giulnara Khakimova to assassinate The Baron, Saul attempts to kill Artyom when he interferes with his plans. If Artyom decides to let Saul live, Saul will later appear and tasks Artyom with killing The Baron for him with promising to reward him if he completes this task, even providing Artyom weapon upgrades and supplies to help him.
- The Two Colonels DLC: General Anatoly Semyonovich "Tolya" Vinogradov is the leader of OSKOM who tries to protect the people living under the highly radiated city of Novosibirsk, having his soldiers kill any mutants coming close to his community. Becoming more pragmatic as the decrease of medicine needed to defend against high radiation becomes more apparent, Tolya decides to confiscate the medicine from people who has excessive amounts of it and redistributes to so that everyone can have it, especially children. When there is no medicine left and the citizens decides to riot, Toyla unleashes chlorine gas to kill both the rioters and his own men, believing that he’s sparing them all from a worse death and arranges to have the High Command killed when they decide to abandon him before taking his own life after learning about the death of his son.
Edited by G-Editor on Sep 27th 2022 at 3:26:21 PM
Sure Killer Peach
- Dave: White House Communications Director Alan Reed is a canny politician who aids President Mitchell and Chief of Staff Bob Alexander in various acts of corruption. When Mitchell has an incapacitating stroke, Alan smoothly gets the medical staff and the Secret Service to keep the situation a secret, frames Vice President Nance for corruption so that Bob can become Vice President, and convinces Mitchell's lookalike Dave Kovic that impersonating Mitchell is morally justifiable and vital for national security. Alan coaches Dave on how to impersonate Mitchell, but goes from viewing him as a tool, to a friend, to a genuine leader. When Bob turns on Dave due to his sense of independence and desire to do good works, Alan sides with Dave and helps him try to improve the country. When Bob exposes Mitchell's crimes to bring down Dave, Alan supplies evidence of Bob's complicity in those crimes. Alan helps Dave fake another stroke and return to his old life, avoids being indicted along with Bob, and goes on to serve Nance, the man who he framed before his Heel–Face Turn.
Edited by Melinda on Sep 27th 2022 at 11:34:10 AM
Gotta love Jaws!
Reading that additional info on Anatoly I'll give a , sorry for missing that last night G.
to Alan, the Nurse, Norbert and Killer Peach.
And thank you to everyone who has given me birthday wishes! I have had a fantastic one so far.
"For a second there, I mistook ya for a threat... but you're just a dirty little man!"
Goku Black
Killer peach.
Happy Birthday aman. Sorry I missed that.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
it’s cool glad you changed your vote now.
Also if it is decided that Virgil does get an EP, I look forward to when it arrives
I'd be pretty reticent on Vergil. Love the guy but the second V reforms into him, he sets aside all pragmatism and humanity to get his final battle with Dante rather than fixing any of the damage, which is explicitly called out as a childish rivalry and earns him a beatdown and a "The Reason You Suck" Speech from Nero before he finally jumps down and starts fixing stuff with Dante. Like, he's definitely chilled out enough by The Stinger but he's pretty much explicitly painted as screwing himself and countless others over due to pride.
He's definitely got his stuff back together by 5 and I'll argue that he's a very smart planner, but he... kinda plays himself at the end in my opinion.
Edited by Riley1sCool on Sep 27th 2022 at 12:15:20 PM
Yes to Tolya and Furious
Also HBD interests!
Here's some Hitman quotes I'd like to propose.
Diana Burnwood: Not by a long shot. Thomas Cross had billions in hidden offshore accounts, all stripped clean within hours of the kidnapping. Someone wanted the son dead to lure out the father. Someone smart enough to stay in the shadows, while we do the wetwork and the Highmoores picked up the check.
47: A shadow client.
(...)
Diana: Italy. Morocco. Paris. All our clients got their intel the same way, anonymous tips from a hidden source. Each contract perfectly legit, yet part of a grander design.
47: I don’t see the pattern.
Diana: Somebody does.
Diana Burnwood: He’s only a terrorist if you win.
The Constant: Miss Burnwood. We won a long time ago. This? This is maintenance.
Diana Burnwood: How did you-
The Constant: I have everyone’s number. You really ought to know by now.
Diana: You planned this. All of it.
The Constant: Don’t be silly. I just played the hand I was dealt.
Diana: We’ll find you.
The Constant: You had me. Where’d that get you?
Diana: We handed you an empire.
The Constant: It’s for the best. The Partners were complacent. Set in their ways. But power is more than just security. Providence can be an agent of change. Surely you understand. Or you will, soon enough.
Edited by papyru30 on Sep 26th 2022 at 9:02:07 AM
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon