Now with a sandbox!
It appears that many Nightmare Fuel pages have problems, including:
1. Listing non-scary things that made the viewer feel slightly uncomfortable at worst.
2. Having spoiler tags on them (which is against the page's guidelines).
3. Listing Fridge Horror and fan theories.
And much more!
On a few occasions, people from outside the site's community have pointed out our overly lax usage of Nightmare Fuel to make fun of us, meaning that it can legitimately harm our reputation to let this go unchecked.
The TRS thread
meant for redefining Nightmare Fuel started to become a place for cleaning up Nightmare Fuel pages in general, so we may as well move these discussions to Long Term Projects where they belong.
Here are the guidelines to determine whether something is Nightmare Fuel or not.
- This is a page whose name is intended to be taken more literally than most. It's not enough for material to be scary; to truly qualify, it has to be frightening enough to legitimately unnerve/disturb the viewer, with actually being nightmare-inducing as the ultimate endpoint.
- Good signs that something IS Nightmare Fuel include if:
- It left you feeling shaken even after the credits had rolled, you turned the last page, or are otherwise done with the work.
- You have a hard time falling asleep if you think about it at night, or have a literal nightmare about it.
- You dread that episode, scene, level, chapter, or song during re-watches, and consider skipping it.
- With that said, don't add something just because it happens to be your personal phobia. For example, spiders can be scary and many people have arachnophobia, but just because a spider happens to be in the work, it does not make a Nightmare Fuel entry. It needs to reasonably be scary to someone without the phobia.
- Don't confuse tension with fear. If the hero is in trouble, but you know he'll make it out okay at the end, it's probably not Nightmare Fuel unless the threat is especially disturbing.
- Good signs that something IS Nightmare Fuel include if:
- Explain WHY the entry scared you. Try to convey your sense of fear to your readers. Avoid putting up Zero-Context Examples.
- Remember that Weblinks Are Not Examples, and neither are quotes on their own. You should explain the horror in your own words, rather than rely on others to do so.
- Don't add things that might have scared someone. If it didn't scare you, and you don't personally know anyone else who was scared, you shouldn't be adding it to Nightmare Fuel.
- Nightmare Fuel should stick to you even after you're done with the work.
- If something is initially presented as scary but turns out to be harmless, it's most likely not Nightmare Fuel since The Reveal makes the scariness vanish.
- Jump Scares are a good source of Nightmare Fuel, but not all of them automatically qualify: being startled is not the same as being scared.
- Hypotheticals are not Nightmare Fuel:
- Remember that Trailers Always Lie: a scene that is presented as scary in the trailer could very well turn out to be inoffensive in the finished work. Only add examples from unreleased works if they were especially terrifying in the previews.
- Fan theories do not belong on the Nightmare Fuel page under any circumstance. No matter how much evidence they have to support them, don't add them until they've been officially confirmed. In the meanwhile, take them to Wild Mass Guessing.
- Fridge Horror goes on the Fridge page, not Nightmare Fuel. Don't add it unless it's Ascended Fridge Horror.
- Keep in mind the work's intended audience when considering whether or not something is Nightmare Fuel.
- If something is normal or expected in the genre, it does not automatically qualify. Violence in a Fighting Series or gore in a horror movie must be especially disturbing or gruesome by the work's standards to be Nightmare Fuel.
- Remember that Kids Shouldn't Watch Horror Films. If a work is rated PG-13 or higher but would only be scary to young children, it's not Nightmare Fuel.
- The standards on what qualifies as Nightmare Fuel are especially stringent on works aimed at children and pre-teens: kids have hyperactive imaginations, so even something benign can give them nightmares.
- Spoiler tags do not belong on Nightmare Fuel pages. Much of what scares us comes from inherently spoilery stuff such as death and the unknown, so finding spoilers on these pages should be expected.
- Nightmare Fuel is an Audience Reaction, so it needs to be scary for the audience. Describing how the characters react to something scary isn't needed. Just because something scares them, that doesn't mean it scares us as well.
- Nightmare Fuel is a No Real Life Examples, Please! page. Meta-examples involving the actors, production, or behind-the-scenes incidents are not allowed.
Guidelines when proposing cleanup of a page:
- Some rules are pretty objective. If you see a Zero-Context Example, Fridge Horror, Real Life example, speculation, In-Universe reaction that isn't scary to the viewers, examples that explicitly describe themselves as not being very scary (including "mildly creepy", "somewhat unnerving", and other synonymous phrases), or examples that are just scene summaries without going into detail about why it's so scary, you can (and should) remove them immediately without coming here to ask.
- You should also strip all spoiler tags from the page. Itty Bitty Wiki Tools has a tool for that, but it can cause problems, so if you use it be sure to preview the page and thoroughly look it over.
- Once you've fixed the objective issues with the page, bring it here so we can look at the more subjective problems, such as examples that may not be scary enough to qualify. If a consensus is reached that a certain entry does not qualify, it can be removed.
Edited by Zuxtron on Aug 1st 2020 at 9:40:30 AM
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
Seriously though, I say chop away at the recently mentioned pages/examples.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
NightmareFuel.Twitch Plays Pokemon: Dear god, that is one of the worst Nightmare Fuel pages I have ever seen. Literally everything on there is Wild Mass Guessing, fan art, and complaining about difficult parts.
NightmareFuel.Pokemon GO: That page has been brought up multiple times in the past.
- If weren't for dark Pokédex entries, some Pokémon's updated sprite renditions might add some Nightmare Fuel to the hellfire of what's an already kid-unfriendly Augmented Reality Mobile Phone Game. A few of them stand out:
This then proceeds to describe how some bug Pokemon have a Pseudopupil (as a note so generously explains) which makes it look like its eyes are following you, and could be mildly unsettling to some players at most. Then there's one about Ursaring, which could maybe startle some sensitive souls, but probably not to the point of giving them actual nightmares.
- Using Magikarp as your Buddy Pokémon can be very unsettling; it looks like if the Magikarp is trying to hold its final breaths, or escape from trainers.
This sounds rather mild. The "very" in front of "unsettling" sounds like hyperbole.
- Using Mr. Mime as your buddy is even worse. It looks like it's trying to escape from your phone.
Or it's doing a mime routine? - The loading screen for the 2016 Halloween event. Instead of the more cartoony depiction of a Gyarados attacking some unlucky guy, we get said guy obliviously being watched by a much more realistically rendered Gengar◊, which is wearing its usual Slasher Smile...
This is the page image. It's only mildly spooky at most, I have a hard time believing anyone is horrified by this image.
- With the Research Quest update, this loading screen◊ has a female trainer getting targeted by an Arbok in the background.
This was brought up the last time. The Arbok doesn't seem to be targeting her, just looking in the same general direction.
- With the Research Quest update, this loading screen
- In the 2017 Halloween event, we got a remix of the infamous Lavender Town theme replacing the usual music.
I don't know about this one. The Lavender Town music is already an infamous case of nightmare fuel, so this might be worth keeping.
- When Alolan Exeggutor attacks while you're trying to capture it, it slams its head towards you. Because it's so tall, the head takes up and smacks your entire phone screen, which is incredibly brutal since most other Pokémon don't come that close to the trainer to attack them.
- Its Ultra Moon Pokédex entry implied that the Alolan Exeggutor smacks its opponents with its head (and some of its moves can really do to the opponents, but not to the player character). Here in this spinoff, its head indeed smacks your phone screen.
Bad indentation aside, this sounds like an exaggeration. Are people actually scared of this? Here's a video I found of the attack.
- Wild Pokémon face a random direction when they spawn. But when you click one to start an encounter with it, it turns to face your character. That means that if you run away from it, back on the map screen, it will be looking right at you. The effect is magnified when you do this with several Pokémon at once.
And this is scary HOW exactly?
- When Niantic first introduced the AR Plus feature, which allows players to view Pokémon in augmented reality at their full size and from any angle, and to sneak up on them for a bonus, a bug caused the Pokémon to flee in situations where they normally would not be able to.
Pokemon fleeing sounds like another case of complaining about losing a rare Pokemon, which we had previously cut from the page for being misuse.
- In events with Pikachu photobombs, try taking an AR+ pic in front of a Pokémon such as Groudon or Sharpedo (Like this.) It will almost look like that Pokémon is trying to eat the Pikachu....and YOU!
It only kinda looks like it, Pikachu doesn't get eaten and neither do you.
I see one example that's maybe worth keeping (Lavender Town music). Everything else is blatant exaggeration.
Now we're so young, but we're probably gonna die
Agreed. I think even Lavender Town can go because the Pokemon Go version is techno, making it less scary.
Who wants to cutlist all the Twitch Plays Pokemon?
NightmareFuel.Super Mario 64 should be our next target. Some time earlier in this thread, I did a look over.
Edited by Grotadmorv on Aug 25th 2019 at 4:18:07 AM
The things in my dreams wish they could chase me!
Since the Dark Crystal prequel is out soon, I thought I would bring up the Dark Crystal Page:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/NightmareFuel/TheDarkCrystal
A lot of this seems valid, but can trimmed and combined.
Also, there is the Never Ending Story page:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/NightmareFuel/TheNeverendingStory
Regarding this page:
You cut everything not related to Gmork or the Nothing (and remove redundancy about Gmork).
G'mork. His film incarnation has given many viewers nightmares. The first-person shots from his perspective as he hunts Atreyu are absolutely terrifying. And that's without getting into his personality. The film also removes anything sympathetic about his motives: "People who have no hope are easy to control, and whoever has the control has the power." This is scary but needs a rewrite.
For that matter, the look on Atreyu's face when he challenges G'mork is a little chilling. As the outcome of their encounter shows, he's not called a warrior for nothing. Not scary, badass maybe, but not scary.
Morla, the giant sneezing turtle, has robbed many a child of sleep on her terrifying appearance alone. Her -pardon me,- their cynical views, complete indifference to everything and possible schizophrenia do not help the situation. Not scary either.
Edited by Overlord on Aug 25th 2019 at 7:12:16 AM
he/him | Image Pickin' regular
Due to the nature of Twitch Plays Pokemon, it relies heavily on fan interpretation, so perhaps fan art should be allowed. Still no response on NightmareFuel.Dragon Ball Z, which I brought up two pages ago?
Edited by rjd1922 on Aug 25th 2019 at 9:21:41 AM
Keet cleanup
There is also this example from the 2002 He-Man cartoon:
''The Snakemen. Especially King Hiss. Their first appearance involves them eating Zodak's brother alive. Hordak falls into this as well. One of his officers provides legitimately good advice since Hordak was previously involved in a battle with the Snakemen; while Hordak appreciates the counsel, he also doesn't like bad news, and thusly causes him to self-destruct on the spot. That is not even getting into the Evil Horde itself, as well as his bunch of In the Hood sorcerers that helped him threaten to swallow Castle Grayskull into darkness...''
I am not sure about Hordak (he did not get the chance to do much on the show), but King Hiss is legitimately scary, in terms of visuals and actions.
And, of coarse He-Man's sister She-Ra has her own page:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/NightmareFuel/SheRaAndThePrincessesOfPower
With this page, I say keep everything related to Shadow Weaver's abusive behavior and her face and Catra's insane behavior by the end of season 3. Hordak torturing Catra may be worth keeping, but Hordak being competent is more badass then scary. A lot of the other stuff is either speculation, Fridge Horror or not scary.
Edited by Overlord on Aug 25th 2019 at 8:14:35 AM
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
This has some similarities to Getting Crap Past the Radar:
1. It's often thought of as a badge of honor that makes a work look more mature.
2. Both have cleanup threads because of shoehorning.
3. The shoehorning is done for the sake of making the work look more mature, and it often backfires.
Back on topic, I have a couple of things to say:
Consensus is heavily in favor of cleaning up the Other subpage instead of cutting it, but per Three Rules of Three, it's probably too soon to call.
The amount of subpages for Twitch Plays Pokémon is certainly something, but what I don't get is that people have added links to subpages that don't even exist. (I checked; these are actual red links and not the result of a glitch, and the lack of a cutlist reason indicates that they weren't pages that existed and were later cut.)
Edit: Since NightmareFuel.Twitch Plays Pokemon Red is the beginning of the series, I decided to look at that page, and I don't understand this example:
What's this thing in front of me? Is it... a PC? And it can't handle physical items, but it has lots of other functions? Maybe I should only use my smartphone from now on.
Edit:
This one doesn't even tie into the in-joke about PCs, so it's a ZCE. It just describes a glitch from Pokémon Red and Blue and stops there.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 25th 2019 at 1:00:59 PM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
I disagree that we should allow fanart for Twitch Plays Pokemon. If a work is completely innocent outside of fan theories, it doesn't deserve a Nightmare Fuel page.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
I agree. It isn't the game causing nightmares, it's the fanon.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
I agree with disallowing fan interpretations. The site already had to get rid of those non-canon subpages a while back.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Speaking of fan interpretations... Nightmare Fuel Chuggaaconroy is mostly just Fridge Horror and fan interpretations like Shari being aserial killer and stuff.
And it's not like Jon Tron, where he might put in a scary picture or something every now and then. Chugga is family friendly, for the most part and the stuff that's worth salvaging is already on the NF pages of the respective games.
Anyone opposed to me axing the page?
Edit: Never mind looks like somebody already did it.
Edited by Klavice on Aug 27th 2019 at 7:46:38 AM
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
I think the crowner's safe to call in favor of cleaning up NightmareFuel.Other instead of cutting it.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Yeah, my thought was that, if we finish cleaning it and find it's still bad, then we can burn it.
Edited by WarJay77 on Aug 27th 2019 at 8:12:06 AM
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
Gonna start looking through the Computers folder.
EDIT: First things first, what are the criteria for a real-life example? Would error messages and computer viruses count? What about alarms and sirens?
Edited by Zuxtron on Aug 27th 2019 at 8:23:38 AM
Hi
Calling the crowner, that's overwhelming consensus.
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
At the very least, I think it's safe to cut most (if not all) of the Documentary folder and all of the Disturbing sounds folder, and the broadcast hijacking examples in the Videos section. I noticed Zapruder Film is in the Documentary section, despite the Word of Mod statement on TRS last year (link to thread) that it doesn't qualify as a tropable work (which resulted in the page getting moved from Film/ to Useful Notes).
Probably also the virus examples, but I'm unsure about error messages.
I think the first sentence on the page ("For all the works that scare people that won't fit anywhere else.") is relevant here, because it indicates that the page is about works.
Edit: Just to clarify my position on the Documentary section, I think it's safe to cut any example related to a documentary on a subject that's confirmed to exist, especially things that violate the Rule of Cautious Editing Judgment, as opposed to anything that involves speculation on the creators' parts. I think this is often a matter of whether the work uses filmed footage or CGI.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 27th 2019 at 10:56:40 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
No-lifer
I took care of the disturbing sounds, broadcast hijackings, and that PETA example.
Limpin' with the bizkit.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Hey, I think we should take a look at this page. Too lazy to clean it up myself, but it looks like yet another kid-friendly game that someone is trying to make into a “mature” experience through shoehorning. The first example alone is an in-universe example, which I am fairly certain is not allowed.
Now we're so young, but we're probably gonna die
Not familiar with the source material, but here we go!
- An in-universe example at the beginning where Hamtaro dreams of Spat destroying relationships in Fun Land. Then, from Hamtaro's perspective, Spat charges toward him until his face fills the entire screen! Hamtaro flies into nothingness until he is woken up by Boss. In-universe.
- Many scary moments in Boo Manor, a mansion full of ghosts. Ah, a Big Boo's Haunt? Sounds like potential for scary stuff here.
- The background music which includes chilling moans can be enough to freak anyone out. This sounds pretty funky to me. I don't hear any moans.
- In one room, a painting's eyes follow you wherever you go. Bijou will mention this if you put her face right next to the painting. Creepy, probably, but nightmare-inducing? No.
- Some of the ghosts are downright sadistic. One of them kidnaps a female hamster and locks her in a wardrobe. You're forced to play a game to save her and regardless of the result, he kicks you out through the wardrobe once it's over. Doesn't sound scary.
- If you make Hamtaro run over a rug in one of the rooms, he suddenly flies into the air. It looks like a ghost got him but he just tripped on sunflower seeds hidden under the rug. This sounds funny, not scary.
- The funeral parlor on the second floor. ZCE.
- Dexter gets locked inside the coffin. An optional cutscene has Dexter reaching for a rope inside before the lid slams shut on him. But he's still alive, right?
- If you Hif-Hif in front of the coffin when it's empty, the text box states that something smells old. Bijou and Hamtaro will look horrified before realizing they were actually smelling the roses around the coffin. If you Hamha while the coffin is closed, Bijou will say, "Actually, you know, I don't think I really want a reply." Seems like an in-universe shocking moment.
- The final room with all the creepy dolls. Even worse, one of them turns out to be Spat! Sounds like it could count with elaboration.
- Hamtaro falling in a trapped door can count. "Can count." ZCE.
- The background music
- The rides going haywire in Fun Land. The roller coaster in particular has Stan and Sandy riding it on a continuous loop. And I Must Scream misuse. Remove.
- From Wildwoods:
- The birds which peck and chase you away if you hit the circling ones too many times. ZCE.
- The crocodile in the mud swamp that appears if you Lookie next to it. Not to mention Spat would have been eaten by it if not for his wings. FH.
- The bees which you NEED to upset to progress. The first time, they'll get Spat for you, but if you come back and disturb them again, they'll chase YOU. Cue Hamtaro running to the next screen, where thankfully the bees won't follow. A character being chased by bees doesn't sound like something you'd lose sleep over.
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
I agree with everything here. The page sounds like an easy cut.
Now we're so young, but we're probably gonna die
NightmareFuel.A Boy Named Charlie Brown is an easy cut. It only has one ZCE, and its information is repeated on YMMV.A Boy Named Charlie Brown and NightmareFuel.Peanuts.
Edited by Grotadmorv on Aug 28th 2019 at 6:48:21 AM
The things in my dreams wish they could chase me!
NightmareFuel.Mrs Mungers Class looks like yet another "let's shoehorn Nightmare Fuel into a kid show to make it seem cooler" page.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
To be fair we have to accept, as I've stated before that there are instances of something being scary to one person but not to others. Like I'm not scared of anything in MLP and yet people might be. Doesn't mean every episode needs a page or example though. I think most of the NF in Fi M comes from fan interpretations of the characters.
The general rule of NF at least for me isn't so much "Does this scare us?" but for kids shows "does it scare the target audience?"
Edited by Klavice on Aug 28th 2019 at 9:58:06 AM
@Playing_with_boy: There is absolutely nothing scary about this site. I guess it is okay to cut it, maybe.
On the subject of NF, do people seriously NEEDS to shove NF on everything they come across?
I dunno, the level of idiocy demonstrated by some of what's come up in this thread is pretty damn scary.
Edited by nrjxll on Aug 25th 2019 at 4:14:40 AM