Do you have trouble remembering the difference between Deathbringer the Adorable and Fluffy the Terrible?
Do you have trouble recognizing when you've written a Zero-Context Example?
Not sure if you really have a Badass Bookworm or just a guy who likes to read?
Well, this is the thread for you. We're here to help you will all the finer points of example writing. If you have any questions, we can answer them. Don't be afraid. We don't bite. We all just want to make the wiki a better place for everyone.
Useful Tips:
- Make sure that the example makes sense to both people who don't know the work AND don't know the trope.
- Wrong: The Mentor: Kevin is this to Bob in the first episode.
- Right: The Mentor: Kevin takes Bob under his wing in the first episode and teaches him the ropes of being a were-chinchilla.
- Never just put the trope title and leave it at that.
- Wrong: Badass Adorable
- Right: Badass Adorable: Xavier, the group's cute little mascot, defeats three raging elephants with both hands tied behind his back using only an uncooked spaghetti noodle.
- When is normally far less important than How.
- A character name is not an explanation.
- Wrong: Full Moon Silhouette: Diana
- Right: Full Moon Silhouette: At the end of her transformation sequence into Moon Princess Misty, Diana is shown flying across the full moon riding a rutabaga.
Other Resources:
For best results, please include why you think an example is iffy in your first post.
Also, many oft-misused tropes/topics have their own threads, such as Surprisingly Realistic Outcome (here
) and Fan-Preferred Couple (here). Tropers are better able to give feedback on examples you bring up to specific threads.
For cleaning up examples of Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard, you must use their dedicated threads: Complete Monster Cleanup, Magnificent Bastard Cleanup.
Edited by Synchronicity on Sep 18th 2023 at 11:42:55 AM
Come to think of it, how long should a contract be in order for it to be Comically Wordy?
I'm helping!
If its length is being portrayed as comical, it's comically wordy. There's no hard numbers on that, because the whole point is that it doesn't really correlate with anything in reality anyway.
Trouble Cube continues to be a general-purpose forum for those who desire such a thing.
Lots of coffee
I was mostly just asking if 32 pages is too normal a length, or if it's still comically wordy anyway because it's for a romantic relationship and not an actual business.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Showtime!
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I would agree that it's comically wordy in that context, yeah
I've done paralegal work out in the real world, and can say that a 30 page contract is not out of the ordinary, depending on what it's for. If a company buys a part of another company, those contracts can easily run into the hundreds.
So yes, context is key here for determining if it is comically large or not.
I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me
I imagine it's more how its treated in-universe.
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
I'd say "30 to 40 pages" isn't comically wordy. However, "staying up all night to read it" creates the context of "this took them several hours, resulting in loss of sleep", which is funny. Less about the page numbers and more about the reaction to the document.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Over on the Mis-blamed page, underneath the various descriptions, is a "General" folder, describing the various common examples/reasons for Mis Blame. Under Examples Are Not General this should be cut. Also, it's mostly a re-hashing of the (quite long) trope description, so it's not even new information.
I'd like to cut the whole thing, but would like some consensus before giving a folder this large the axe.
For reference, this is the folder:
- There is a tendency of fans for canceled/discontinued works to blame everybody involved in the distribution of bad faith without thinking that there might have been valid reasons. The simple reality is most shows weren't Screwed by the Network, but simply just didn't get either the ratings or the advertising revenue to warrant their cost. Distribution companies don't stay afloat by losing money to appeal to niches, after all. See also Fan Myopia and The Firefly Effect (which is almost a form of fan myopia in itself).
- Also in regards to the shows is that no-one understands how good it is until much later, which means a too-long delayed Fridge Brilliance can hurt a show without any single person or group being at fault.
- Medium issues may also apply in some cases. An anime series without substantial backing isn't going to exceed 12 or 26 episodes (half or a whole television season), and a Western cartoon show will more than likely not exceed 65 (a 13-week syndication cycle).
- On the flip side to the above, many can assume that a show was canceled because it was horrible and only horrible at that. While true for some, it's not always the case for other titles. It might have not been promoted well, it was in an unfavorable time slot or even channel, or maybe it was, yes, Screwed by the Network.
- Follow the Leader can all too often lead to this. Sure, there is such a thing as ripoffs of course, but you'd be surprised how often these claims can be baseless. Many popular franchises that receive "imitations" were quite often not all that original to begin with (for example, how the really popular franchises more often popularize tropes than create them). There have been plenty of times in which the similarities in "ripoffs" to more "popular franchises" can be overly vague at best (such as when characters from one franchise look rather similar to someone from a more popular franchise but their backstories are pretty much different). There are a pretty good number of so-called "ripoffs" in which the only thing they really have in common with the more popular franchise is that they are in the same genre. There have been certain cases in which even the company behind a certain popular franchise thinks so and tries to file a lawsuit against the "rip-off" and loses in the process.
- It is also quite common for a set of circumstances to influence more than one person, so you can get a sudden glut of 'x' movies without any of them being rip offs or originals.
- It usually takes a lot of people to make a movie/game/series/whatever. We as consumers and viewers usually do not know exactly what goes on while they're making what we're experiencing right now. On top of the fact that not all of us will see the credits, the credits may not show who did what or even leave out someone who was working on it altogether (this often happens with voice actors). Even then, the credits won't tell us who exactly did what, for all we know, an important decision wasn't thought up by the person we're blaming.
- Often happens with actors with significant hate dumbs. The actors/actresses will be treated like they are the worst actors ever for taking that part, despite the fact that most of them are at worst mediocre actors who are trying to work with what was written for them.
- The transition from traditional to CGI animated films in the 2000s. The people blame companies like Pixar and DreamWorks Animation and the people who work there for making hand-drawn animation a dying art. In reality, as CGI features were becoming more popular as the 21st century dawned, many executives saw CGI as being more profitable than traditional animation, especially as Disney's legendary feature animation department was converted into a CGI house as many traditional animators were laid off. As shown in The Pixar Story, many of the Pixar employees love the hand-drawn Disney films and don't like the flak they're receiving for making them go down the tubes.
- When it comes to TV programs (especially animated ones), oftentimes the fans of a recently cancelled show will blame the very next show that gets announced (Especially if it happens shortly after the former is announced as cancelled) for getting their show cancelled when it just happened to be the next show in the pipeline and was likely already in production for months (or even years) beforehand. The Problem Solverz was blamed for kicking Symbionic Titan off the air note , Legends of Chima was seen as a Replacement Scrappy for ThunderCats (2011)note , and some parts of the Robot and Monster fandom believe that the show was kicked off Nickelodeon's schedule in favor of Sanjay and Craig.note In short, TV show production just doesn't quite work that way.
- Due to the popularity of superhero movies over comic books, it's become fairly common for fans of the movies to fall into Type 1 (GIGO). The original comics are by no means garbage, but the nature of the medium has created a lot of genre staples (repeated Snap Backs to maintain Comic-Book Time, Sufficiently Advanced Technology to treat Comic Book Death, characters popping in and out of each others' titles, etc.) that just don't work on film. This means it's not uncommon for fans to get upset with a superhero movie's creative team over a bad idea of theirs, when in fact it wasn't their idea—it was faithfully imported from the comics and the team's only mistake was failing to realize that it could only work smoothly in print.
- Translation errors. This usually happens the most in things originating in Japan (Anime, Video games) but it happens with other languages too:
- Many works are products of their times and cultures. As a result, many of these may sometimes make cultural (popular or not) references that will just leave foreign (or even younger) viewers scratching their heads in confusion. As a result, many translators attempt to either change these references to something as generic as possible or replace them with references that the foreign audience will understand. Some of these also are so hard to translate that they are left in.
- Swear words. Many fan translations add swear words or innuendos that weren't there to make it sound more "Adult". Part of this may also be unintentional.
- Values Dissonance. What is unsuitable for children in one country is actually entirely acceptable, which causes a lot of confusion about when localisers take a show and make it "more kid friendly" - many actually see a show that was written for kids of one society, and attempt to show what's acceptable in the other society.
- Song lyrics - Fans of musicals or movies with songs in them often blame the musical staff for writing songs that make little sense to them - when it's actually the fault of the dubbers, who themselves struggle with trying to make the song make sense and still maintain a rhythm, especially to avoid the dreaded Lip Lock.
Found two example that might need to be rewritten in Leaving You to Find Myself:
- Nicely subverted in Garden State. The protagonist says this to his lover...then returns from offscreen and says, that come to think of it, that's a horrible idea.
- The terrible National Lampoon's Movie Madness opens its first segment with a husband forcing his wife to go on a journey of self-discovery in a parody of Kramer vs. Kramer.
^^ Meh, cut that
^ They are both Zero-Context Examples. The first one is "this happens", the second one only shows the "finding myself" bit unless you are familiar with Kramer vs. Kramer (which you shouldn't need to be).
Edited by Synchronicity on May 9th 2022 at 4:30:06 AM
So what to do with them?
Also what about the second word in the second example?
Folder is cut.
You can either comment them out or just delete them. Unless of course you want to flesh them explaining how they fit the trope.
Lots of coffee
And it should go without saying that an objective trope example shouldn't call a movie terrible.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
For Later-Installment Weirdness: Would Waddle Dees not being enemies at all in Kirby and the Forgotten Land count? Waddle Dees are known for being The Goomba of the series, and even games where they're not the most common enemy (like in Kirby Mass Attack) would feature them as rarer enemies. Seeing them exclusively as NP Cs was a change in pace, to say the least.
Officially intimidated
I think it counts.
x4 I'll delete them instead since I don't know two films.
Edited by Bubblepig on May 9th 2022 at 5:34:09 AM
“Boom! Boomboom! Boomboomboom! Bakuage Tire! Gogogo!"
♀ | Small ripples lead to big waves
There weren't any Waddle Dee enemies in Kirby 64.
Edited by NitroIndigo on May 9th 2022 at 5:40:00 PM
I'm not sure how the Garden State would improve on its presentation. The trope says what he plans on doing but then the movie says he changes his mind.
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
"says this" - what does he say to his love interest that he later thinks is a horrible idea? "I'm going to kill my dad"? "I want to cheat on you with my secretary"? "I'm going to bike across the United States despite having no prior training whatsoever"? "Let's get Korean barbecue for dinner"?
Title ain't context.
Edited by Synchronicity on May 10th 2022 at 11:22:43 AM
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
From YMMV.Doctor Strange In The Multiverse Of Madness:
- Never Live It Down: Although his intention was simply trying to dissuade his foe from doing anything rash, the main takeaway that many fans will talk about is how 838-Mr. Fantastic, who's supposed to be the smartest man alive, made an idiotic decision by telling Wanda about Black Bolt's power and allows her to figure out how to kill him before the fight even starts properly. He then promptly gets himself killed later by simply stretching his arm out to Wanda to restrain her instead of pretty much anything else, allowing Wanda to twist his body into spaghetti and causes his own gruesome death without achieving anything.
Isn't it to early to say he will never live it down as the film hasn't been out even a whole week yet?
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Definitely too quick, and I have brought the trope up to NREP thread.
I've heard more thrilled that he was introduced at all rather than the manner of his death, too.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yeah I have personally heard more "Yay, John Krasinski!" than how he died.
So since it's to soon should I remove it?
Edited by Bullman on May 10th 2022 at 11:40:09 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Officially intimidated
I support the removal.
135 - 169 - 273 - 191 - 188 - 230 - 300
Man in the Yellow Hat
Does Wasabi from Sushi Pack count as an example of Killer Rabbit? He may be small and cute, but he can take down his enemies with his fire-based abilities.
Is there a minimum "wordiness" for something to be considered a Comically Wordy Contract? Thinking about an example from Total Drama where Courtney writes a 32-page contract on what Duncan needs to do in their relationship, which is enough to keep Duncan up all night memorizing it.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.