Is this an example?

x 4

I've seen heroic characters get added to One-Winged Angel for monstrous Super Modes or Demonic Possession-induced transformations, based on this passage in the description:

That said, I don't think Luz's Titan form counts as one since 1) she's still mostly humanoid, just with a few monstrous traits; and 2) she's still in control of herself and doesn't turn into a rampaging monster like Eda does with her Owl-Beast form.

... that being said, I don't think Ichigo Kurosaki's Bankai—which is listed on the anime subpage—counts as an example. Super Mode, yes. One-Winged Angel, no.

Edited by Arawn999 on Feb 20th 2024 at 12:34:00 PM

~Filip 04: I don't think Lottie is Ambiguously Bi, but you could probably make a Ho Yay entry for her affinity with Tiana since it's unintentional subtext.

Re: 30740: I do not think Tiana is Ms. Fanservice at all. She's as attractive as any Disney princess, but they don't really put a lot of focus on her figure during the few scenes that show her as a human. Her everyday outfit and her princess outfit are both pretty modest (they're shapely, but mostly because of the art style and the tendency of Disney princesses to have that marketable doll figure), to the point I straight-up forgot her dress is even backless.

Given your.... honesty in your reasoning, I'd also recommend checking No Lewdness, No Prudishness to make sure you don't conflate your personal tastes with objective fanservice tropes.

Edited by mightymewtron on Feb 20th 2024 at 6:29:32 AM

Saw this example on Dooku’s page

• Irony: Sidious views him as his only unworthy apprentice, due to his age, but Dooku is the only apprentice of Palpatine to best Obi-Wan in a clean fight without Kenobi being exhausted from torture, or rusty, something Maul and Vader are held back by, the latter even being lampshaded by Palpatine. Vader has been humiliated by Obi-Wan repeatedly, and Maul lost against Obi-Wan even with Savage as backup.

I don’t think being Sidious’ apprentice has much to do with if they can beat Obi-Wan or not and it’s not much of a primary focus. It’s mostly about serving Palpatine and having the strongest potential, so let’s say hypothetically "Dooku is viewed as Palpatine’s only unworthy apprentice, but Dooku is actually the strongest" I feel that’s actual irony

Edited by MaxyGregoryyyy on Feb 20th 2024 at 8:09:30 PM

Edit: Ignore this, it was solved.

Edited by Ayumi-chan on Feb 20th 2024 at 9:31:36 PM

So I just found something that screams shoehorning from a biased source.

From the YMMV page of The Owl House:

• Broken Aesop: The Series Finale has two major ones;
  • Earlier in the series, the show railed against the concept of a Chosen One, and said that people should carve out their own paths. Just before the climax however, it's revealed that the remnants of the dead Titan has been actively helping Luz in learning Magic and has picked her to be the one to stand up against Belos. Guess what? That makes her a fucking CHOSEN ONE!!!
  • After Belos is defeated and no longer a threat, he starts begging for Luz to save him from death, saying that is she doesn't, she'll be just as "evil" as the witches, and "We're Human, we're better than this!", only for Eda and friends to push Luz aside, smugly say to Belos "Well we ain't!" and then gleefully stomp him to death and laugh, proving that despite everything the show preached, in his final moments, they proved that everything Belos said had some merit of truth to it.

Two huge problems with this. First, it's very clearly overly hostile and biased against the show judging by it's language, and attempting to whitewash Belos by suggesting he has a point. Secondly, both examples are taken completely out of context to form a rhetorical strawman. The first one isn't an example because she wasn't born with any special destiny. She only got the Titan's approval due to being her kind and loving self, especially to his son. The second is just plainly absurd. It's attempting to play moral judgement on some of the people who have suffered the most under the genocidal psychopath, when he had just made his second attempt to commit genocide against their species.

I took the liberty of removing the example from the YMMV page. Anyone else agree with my decision?

I haven't seen the show, but it sounds like the first one might have some merit although it'd need to be entirely rewritten to be less hostile. A message about not being a chosen one, and then revealing the character in some way was a chosen one is a textbook Broken Aesop. Even if she earned being the chosen one through being kind. Unless the original aesop was specifically about being born with a destiny.

The second one just sounds like poor media literacy that Belos is manipulating the character and doesn't get to set moral stakes that require his own survival lol.

Edited by IronAnimation on Feb 20th 2024 at 6:55:26 AM

For further context on the first one, I really don't see it counting since it's also emphasized that, as always, she has to choose to accept his power. She's always had to choose up to this point, the Titan was only giving her assistance to speed the process up, as she was still finding things like the Glyphs entirely on her own. And yes, it was about always having a "destiny" and waiting for it to be shown to you instead of just choosing your own path

Also... what's weird is that this entry is literally a copy paste of something that was posted on the main page of the show which the troper Gamermaster removed. The weird part is that it was copy pasted onto the YMMV page by an entirely different user, and the first user has a total of two edits on their entire edit history, both of which are super hostile to modern Disney properties.

Edited by ForgoLight on Feb 20th 2024 at 6:57:08 AM

Taking Belos at face value when he says that is ridiculous. He's a genocider. It's not "appeal to basic morality," it's appeal to Fantastic Racism. He's not actually better than anything, and Eda is just throwing his words back at him to save the Boiling Isles after centuries of killing.

Should I remove mention of Ichigo Kurosaki's Bankai from the anime page?

The Imperium of man of Warhammer 40,000 is described by the Opening Crawl of every book as "one of the worst regime imaginealbe" and Word of God describes it as "satirical". And yet none of the Imperium's evils are against groups of people that exist in our world. Despite how overly male-focused their society is (all of its' Super Soldiers and all its foundational figures are men), sexism is very rarely depicted, and when it is, nearly everyone In-Universe treats it as wrong. Despite Fantastic Racism being part of its official credo as to "abhor the mutant", none of the opressed mutants are people with mutations like we would have in our world (like having the wrong skin colour, or heterochromia, or being left-handed, or having red hair... when those mutations were persecuted in real life for being abnormal). despite the everpresent Ecclesiarchy, it is surprisingly tolerant of various religions as long as they are loosely monotheistic (in our own world, one of the biggest splits in the catholic Church, and source of persecution, was over the debate if Mary was a saint or not).
All because the Imperium are one of the playable factions, so having them be evil is a too real way would discourage people from being their figurines and playing them.

Is this But Not Too Evil?

Edited by dArtagnanMusic on Feb 21st 2024 at 6:38:27 AM

Do you think that penguins from Migration fit Cartoon Penguin trope? Even though they have black beaks and feet, they don't actually resemble any real life species of penguins. Also, do you think the giant, flying manta ray that will appear in upcoming Kung Fu Panda 4 is a Creepy Awesome character (at least that's how I see this character)?

You definitely should Arawn.

Kinda pointless to spoil the name of the work. I guess it works if they simply fit the design typical of a Cartoon Penguin.

Kung Fu Panda 4 hasn't come out yet so maybe wait to see how the character appears in context.

From Gaul's folder in The Hunger Games: The Ballad of Songbirds & Snakes:

• Adaptational Sympathy: Due to Adaptational Context Change of why Clemensia lied about working on her project with Snow (in the books, she couldn't focus due to grief over the Arachne's death, while here, she's shamelessly trying to look good in front of Gaul), Volumnia's decision to have Dovecote injected with snake mutt venom comes off as somewhat karmic, though this is a massively downplayed example since she is still having a young girl poisoned for lying to her over something trivial.

Just because Clemensia gets an Adaptational Jerkass boost here, doesn't mean Gaul's sympathetic and the entry even says so. Gaul did it as a sick test in both versions. What would this fall under instead?

I don't think it falls under anything specific as far as Gaul is concerned.

As for the Wish one, something focused on it not getting a Song nom when it had three eligible ones—none of which made the short list for the record—might make for a more appropriate entry. A couple of the songs at least—if not, only "This is the Thanks I Get?"—are pretty well liked as is.

Also, going back to my own real quick, I would agree that whichever version of Clemensia you're thinking of, what Gaul does is still very wrong. It goes to show that with even the movie version trying to steal credit from Coriolanus, getting attacked by a snake is NOT an appropriate punishment.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Feb 21st 2024 at 9:17:58 AM

Yeah, I'm working through the book now but in the movie, I didn't like Clem much. That didn't stop me from thinking Gaul was an absolute maniac, though.

I found this in Trivia.Super Robot Wars DD (under The Other Darrin)

• With this game serving as his first voiced appearance, Agyal is voiced by Michihiro Ikemizu instead of Taro Sagami.

This entry is very much contradictory; if this is his first voiced appearance, why is there a VA listed for his OG appearance?

On the other hand, I have no knowledge of the work. Should I delete it?

SRW is a Massive Multiplayer Crossover. I assume they mean it's his first voiced appearance in the games, and he's been recast from the anime

I found this on WesternAnimation.Wish 2023:

• Protagonist-Centered Morality: Asha opposes King Magnifico's taking wishes from people and only granting the few he deems worthy, saying everyone deserves the right to their wish being a possibility. At the end of the film, she is gifted a magic wand which she will use to become a Fairy Godmother, thereby becoming someone like Magnifico who will have to make decisions as to whose wishes come true thanks to her supernatural assistance. For that matter, Asha not taking the concerns of others into account when deciding what's best for Rosas and acting accordingly - almost bringing the land to destruction in the process - isn't that different from Magnifico's thinking and actions.

This seems more like Alternative Character Interpretation this trope or something else then Protagonist-Centered Morality to me. It seems to rely solely on interpretating the character definitely then what is in canon. Also, the she "will have to make decisions as to whose wishes come true thanks to her supernatural assistance" bit is something that we don't see as it only has powers in the very last thing and we no way to know what her way of dealing with wishes will be. Like, considering who she is revealed to be, it could be that she will grant every wish. Thoughts?

Edited by Bullman on Feb 22nd 2024 at 2:16:22 PM

Definitely more of an ACI thing. If there's no indication she'll act similarly, then this is based on, at best, Fridge Horror.

So, should I move it to ACI or cut it?

I questioned Yoji Shono being a Hate Sink a few days ago but nobody responded. Is this not the right place to question that sort of thing?

There's a Hate Sink cleanup thread here if you are interested.

I would agree it's ACI. Major differences between Asha being given a magic wand to help people work to make their wishes real and Magnifico hoarding them all to only occasionally grant one every now and then.