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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

hegelvonaxel Since: Feb, 2018
TheMadCr0w Gentle Laborer from Insignificant Little Blue Planet Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
Gentle Laborer
#246753: Feb 7th 2021 at 12:55:50 AM

[tup] Infant and Kezeroth. Alright, after discussing this guy with Lighty, I think I have another Garo candidate to propose, this time from Bikuu the Movie, a spinoff of Garo: Makai no Hana.

Who is he? Zesshin was once a high-ranking Makai Priest and an old veteran of the Darkness Slashers—a ruthless division within the Makai Order that specializes in hunting down and executing Makai operatives who have become corrupted by darkness, kinda like their own State Sec. A brilliant magician himself, Zesshin invented a dangerous spell called the Soul Insertion Technique, which allowed Darkness Slashers to invade a person's soul to verify if they're still pure and loyal to the Makai Order, and if not, then the only choice is to destroy that soul, killing the person instantly. Unbeknownst to most people, however, Zesshin hid a darkness of his own. Coming from a family that practiced inbreeding to keep their powerful bloodline intact, Zesshin was not revolted by the tradition at all and impregnated his own eldest daughter—which disgusted her younger sister, Azusa—and even intended to father another child with his new daughter/granddaughter, Saya. After invading so many souls and killing a person whose soul was still pure, Zesshin's worldview was finally shattered, and he came to embrace the idea that maybe, just maybe there is more to the human heart than whether it's black or white.

Love and betrayal. Fear and joy. They're all a hair's breadth apart. Indecisive like a pendulum, everything becomes one in the chaos of darkness. That's true beauty. Water, wind, flame, the sky, and the earth... This world exists to amuse you, from the moment you're born until your destiny of destruction!

With this nihilistic philosophy in mind, Zesshin idealized the idea of becoming a god by merging the entire world with his soul and creating a new one in its place where, in his own words, "Men, women, children... I will pop them one by one and listen to their screams in death". Not long after accepting his "ultimate truth", Zesshin honored his twisted philosophy by going home and killing his own family, save for Azusa and Saya, who managed to survive. Taking Saya as his lover and using her naivety to achieve godhood, Zesshin's original body perished in his exile but he modified the Soul Insertion Technique to perform Body Surf, possessing people and killing several victims along the way until he could find a body that is compatible with him. When he finally finds the perfect body, that of Bikuu's apprentice Daichi, Zesshin mocks Saya for being a failure and wastes no time in possessing the boy, taunting his fellow Darkness Slasher—"That expression! That's the expression I love! I can't get enough of that despair!". As Zesshin prepared himself to begin assimilating the world, Bikuu invaded his soul and, with much effort, managed to destroy him, saving Daichi in the process.

Heinous? The story takes place in the same universe as the original Garo, meaning he has to compete with Barago and Giru the Heretic Bone Knight, the latter of whom freed a legendary Horror in a failed attempt to bring his wife back from the dead. While Barago only wanted to gain power by handing humanity to Messiah, and Giru was merely a desperate Tragic Villain, Zesshin not only sought to turn the world into his own playground where he could always murder people, but Parental Incest is very unique to Garo and tokusatsu in general, he passes with flying colors.

Mitigating Factors? This is where you see why Zesshin is such a fascinating character, a couple of characters give their opinions on why Zesshin went mad: His old Manipulative Bastard of a partner believes the repeated use of the Soul Insertion Technique broke his mind (he is not to be trusted and you will soon see why) but his daughter thinks it was killing an innocent person. We never get a decisive answer, the only thing that we know for certain is that Zesshin was already pretty twisted to begin with, he only needed something to push him further into darkness. Zesshin himself only talks about his past once, albeit briefly:

Once... I thought using the Soul Insertion Technique would save the world from darkness. But, there's more to the human heart than whether it's black or white. One day, you will suffer the same pain that I did. When that happens... You will fall to darkness.

The best part? Bikuu herself comes to agree with his philosophy, she goes after Byakkai—who secretly orchestrated Zesshin's release to prove a point to the Makai Senate—and kills him, even after realizing that his soul was still pure. In any other case I'd be iffy on him, but Zesshin is just so sadistic and embraced darkness to such an extent that I need to give him a chance.

Conclusion? You decide.

Snowy66 Since: May, 2012
#246754: Feb 7th 2021 at 1:04:34 AM

[tup] Zesshin

While I'm at it, I'd also like to propose a potential cut to an existing AQW CM. Chaos Lord Krellenos.

This is his current entry:

  • Chaos Lord Krellenos corrupted his brother Antiphuus and allowed his kin to blame the Horcs for his death. He proceeded to steal an Arashtite ore of the Accord of the Dark Sun from the Ravine Temple to corrupt friends and family alike, doing so to his family and to the Horcs as well. He began using the corrupted generals of both sides of the Alliance to try to shatter said Alliance and get the Hero blamed for it all. Krellenos proved willing to sacrifice anything—even family—for Chaos power, all while starting a huge war.

It seems the main thing that got him added was the Mind Rape, which is termed Chaorruption in AQW. I'd just like to say this is definitely not a unique thing to this guy. Pretty much all of the 13 Lords of Chaos and Drakath the Champion of Chaos himself, all have the power to Chaorrupt. Each arc is filled to the brim with their chaorrupted minions as mooks that the player needs to fight through, and presumably a very large number of them were involuntary chaorruptions. Yet the problem is, many of the Chaos Lords are treated by the story as sympathetic and/or redeemable, despite virtually all of them guilty of chaorruption.

The only thing unique about Krellenos is that he was willing to chaorrupt his family (mostly his brother) and use them as meatshields to achieve his goals. Now while that's certainly nasty, does that alone really push him into CM territory?

I'm not really fussed on whether this one gets cut or not, but it just strikes me as a bit odd he was there to begin with. But I'll leave it to you guys on whether or not he stays.

Edited by Snowy66 on Feb 7th 2021 at 1:37:12 AM

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#246755: Feb 7th 2021 at 1:55:31 AM

"That expression! That's the expression I love! I can't get enough of that despair!"

Junko would like a word with this one.

Yes to Zesshin and yes to both of Ravok's Inuyasha's. One of these days when I'm finished watching the source I'll have a...strange iteration of Naraku to EP.

DarkConduit86 Since: Sep, 2020
#246756: Feb 7th 2021 at 2:29:31 AM

Why is Kalfu's writeup in the drafts?

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#246757: Feb 7th 2021 at 3:08:35 AM

[tup]zesshin, Infant and Xavier

Does anyone in ZERO: Black Blood and it's sequel which are apparently their own thing? Ring the Big Bad is apparently an Anti-Villain but that series has seemingly never been discussed here interestingly?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#246758: Feb 7th 2021 at 3:33:03 AM

Okay, I'm calling for a temporary moratorium on writeups until I can clear out the Drafts.

Yes to Xavier IF, and only IF, his imprisonment isn't played as justifying his actions. I'd like some elaboration on this please.

[tup] Infant, Kezeroth, Zesshin.

For Krellenos...even if the Mind Rape is common, the writeup also mentions "starting a huge war". How common is that? If that's also common, I'll vote for a cut. If it's not, I think he can stay.

Edited by ACW on Feb 7th 2021 at 6:43:10 AM

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Snowy66 Since: May, 2012
#246759: Feb 7th 2021 at 5:07:24 AM

Well I wouldn't say it's super common, but there have been a few chessmasters who have tricked factions into warring with each other. Faust managed to manipulate Vaxen into invading Lore. with his army. Then there's Chamat who released the Infernal Army upon Lore which in one Bad Future actually managed to wipe out all life.

Plus with Krellenos, not sure I'd call it a huge war. It was only restricted to the residents of Bloodtusk Ravine, the orcs and the trolls, two races that already hated each other. Much smaller scale war compared to the other examples above which were on global scales.

Edited by Snowy66 on Mar 25th 2021 at 2:04:35 AM

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#246760: Feb 7th 2021 at 5:12:10 AM

Oh, I'm fine with a cut then. Dude seems bad, but neither of his main crimes are unique it seems.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Snowy66 Since: May, 2012
#246761: Feb 7th 2021 at 5:24:52 AM

Yah, he's a pretty small fry in the greater scheme of things. He probably fits better under Hate Sink.

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#246762: Feb 7th 2021 at 6:04:35 AM

[tup] to Rayse, Alternative Charles Xavier, Infant, Kezeroth and Zesshin.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from NYPD (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
MalleoWeegee Evolution Requires Sacrifice. from Eurasia Since: Apr, 2020 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Evolution Requires Sacrifice.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#246765: Feb 7th 2021 at 6:52:37 AM

[tup]Kezeroth

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Godzillawolf Since: Jul, 2010
#246766: Feb 7th 2021 at 6:53:00 AM

  • Anacondas: The Hunt for the Blood Orchid: Dr. Jack Byron is a ruthless Glory Hound. Seeking to become rich and famous by exploiting the life extending Blood Orchid, he intentionally risks the team's lives by taking a quicker, but more dangerous route, and hiding their means of escape. When found out, he uses a Stone Spider to leave his partner Gordon paralyzed as he's Eaten Alive by one of the Anacondas, using the distraction to abandon the rest of the party to die in the jungle. When they catch up, he forces Sam to risk her life to retrieve the Blood Orchid over the mating ball of deadly serpents. Despite being only a human, Jack proves far worse than the anacondas.
  • My Little Pony The Stolen Shadow: Chameleon the Enchanter is an evil shapeshifting warlock and the story's main villain. Chameleon steals Seashell's shadow, with intent to use it to cast a spell to drag her to his lair and permanently wipe her memory so she can be his slave forevermore, a fate he's done to others in the past. This is implied to include his own goblin minions. As she seeks to regain her shadow, Chameleon attempts to subject her and her friends to this fate directly on many occasions, and has created a choking magical mist trap that turns any caught in it for too long into stone. Among the many evil witches and warlocks faced by the ponies, Chameleon stands out as one of the worst.

Libraryseraph Showtime! from Canada (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
Showtime!
#246767: Feb 7th 2021 at 6:59:53 AM

[tup] to Xavier, the Infant, Kezeroth, and Zesshin

Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
MalleoWeegee Evolution Requires Sacrifice. from Eurasia Since: Apr, 2020 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#246769: Feb 7th 2021 at 7:13:47 AM

[tup] to Rayse, Evil Xavier, the Infant, Kezeroth and Zesshin.

xie323 Since: Jul, 2009
#246770: Feb 7th 2021 at 7:13:50 AM

[tdown] Krellenos [tup] Kezeroth and the Infant

Edited by xie323 on Feb 7th 2021 at 7:14:09 AM

Atlantis1930 Since: May, 2012
#246771: Feb 7th 2021 at 7:46:20 AM

[tup] Rayse, Evil Xavier, the Infant, Kezeroth and Zesshin.

Here's my draft for Strange, which I'll add to the Sandbox in just a moment. Like Robert Owen, could I please request that this guy be spoiler tagged on the YMMV page? It spoils the whole season's story evil grin.

Ulrik Strange, initially appearing to be Sarah Lund's loyal ally and Love Interest, is a brutal war criminal determined to bury his crimes. Whilst stationed in Afghanistan, Strange located a family accused of helping the Taliban and goaded Raben, the leader of a squad sent to help him, into shooting one of the children, before executing the rest himself. Later becoming a police detective, Strange decides to murder the entire squad after realizing he is being investigated. Visiting the home of a lawyer looking into his case, Strange stabs her over 21 times, before dumping her in a memorial park and framing it to look like the work of a terrorist. Locating two other members of the squad, Strange kills one with his own dog tag and has the other necklaced, sadistically using the man's own mobile to spark the fire. When Raben escapes and goes to his former comrade Lisbeth Thomsen, Strange steals explosives from an army barracks and blows up Thomsen on her boat. After he and Lund corner Raben, Strange attempts to shoot him dead under the pretence that Raben wouldn't lower his weapon. Strange then plants evidence to frame a soldier called Bilal, which causes the man to snap and kill himself after abducting Raben’s wife. When Lund correctly deduces that Strange was the culprit, Strange coldly guns her down before beating the traumatized Raben and attempting to kill him too.

Edited by Atlantis1930 on Feb 7th 2021 at 3:48:26 PM

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#246772: Feb 7th 2021 at 7:48:23 AM

Guys, what about PLEASE HOLD OFF ON ANY WRITEUPS UNTIL I'VE CLEARED OUT THE SANDBOX is so hard to understand? tongue

I'll allow Godzillawolf's and Strange, but that's it for now, please.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Atlantis1930 Since: May, 2012
#246773: Feb 7th 2021 at 7:48:45 AM

Shit Sorry! I didn't see that!

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#246774: Feb 7th 2021 at 7:49:16 AM

Heh, I'm not TOO mad [lol]

No, but seriously, no more for today.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts

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