Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

So the introductory sentence for Anton Chigurh which goes like this:

• Anton Chigurh is a hired assassin defined by his nihilistic personal code.

I think its fine for the most part, but there is one issue: it states that Chigurh is a Straw Nihilist. The thing is though, as confusing and warped as it is, Chigurh does have a moral code of sorts. Nihilsts believe in nothing, so they can't have a moral code, and Chigurh himself never says anything nihilistic. He's actually The Fatalist, as he sort of views himself as an agent of destiny.

So I think the Straw Nihilist pothole should be changed to either of these:

• Anton Chigurh is a hired assassin defined by his personal moral code.

Or

• Anton Chigurh is a hired assassin defined by his fatalistic personal code.

I like the one about Chigurh being a fatalist more. Yeah, the personal code thing is relevant, but he’s a death seeker at practically every turn. He likes having that power. That part’s probably not in contention though.

to Nyarly

to Shadar and abstain on PAMA. For the latter, the EP feels very focussed on things like "insults the player character" and "tries to kill the protagonist"

Gonna abstain on PAMA. Since I'm not totally sure what "chipping" is ?

Alright, so I have another candidate from a show that I just finished watching called You so lets talk about that.

What’s The Work?

You is a psychological thriller that takes that serves as a Genre Deconstruction for the romantic comedy genre. You first aired on the Lifeline before channel hoping to Netflix in 2019 and it’s premise follows Joe Goldberg as he stalks numerous women whom he believed to be his true love while killing those that get his his way.

The objects of his toxic obsession alternate with each season with the first season taking place in New York where Joe serves as a bookstore manager stalking aspiring writer Guinevere Beck, while the second takes place in Los Angeles where he stalks aspiring chef Love Quinn.

Before you all jump the gun Joe Goldberg isn’t the person that I’ll be discussing as while he has murdered people does have militating qualities that prevent him from qualify for the moment, such as some Pet the Dog moments for children and moments where he questions himself. Instead my candidate is one of the people that Joe met in Season 2, namely Joshua "Henderson" Bunter

Who Is He? What Has He Done?

Joshua "Henderson" Bunter is a famous stand-up comedian in Los Angeles, who is revealed to be a pedophiliac serial rapist who uses his celebrity status to gain the trust of adolescent girls and have them come over his house.

Once Henderson gets the girls to his home he would spike their drinks with drugs that would knock them out, where he then takes him to his basement that is filled with BDSM sex toys, where he would then rape them while they are unconscious, even using sex toys to sodomize them.

He would also takes pictures of them while he rapes them while keeping the photos in box as mementos; there were many photos of girls, showing that Henderson has a big Victim count.

One of his victims was Delilah Alves, Joe’s neighbor in season 2, who remembers getting drugged and raped by Henderson when she was a child, while Henderson intends to drug and rape her younger sister Ellie Alves, manipulating her into trusting him and getting her into his house where he drugs Ellie’s drink, getting her to be unconscious.

Before Henderson could rape Ellie however, he gets knocked out himself because Joe broke into his house and drugged his drink. Joe then ties Henderson up in his own sex basement where he attempts to force Henderson to confessing to raping all of girls. However, Henderson brakes free and tries to flee from Joe only to fly down his own stair and kill him.

Freudian Excuse? Redeeming Qualities?

While being tied up by Joe, Henderson mentions that his step-father inappropriately touched him when he was a teen while his mother did nothing, though its heavily implied to be just a lie that he just made up out of the blue to get Joe to gain sympathy for him and untie him.

Not only does Joe not believe Henderson but Henderson doesn’t look like he suffered from any traumatic experience nor to we ever get any flashbacks to confirm this, especially if you compared him to Forty who, unlike Henderson does have evidence that he was molested by his nanny as seen with his erratic behavior and flashbacks to confirm this, further confirming that Henderson was simply lying.

Also no Henderson social life and celebrity status is all just a cover-up hide the fact that he is a serial rapist who uses them to lure his prey before he rapes him and doesn’t care about anyone but him and from beginning to end Henderson is portrayed as completely unsympathetic and irredeemable .

Heinousness

As I previously said our Villain Protagonist Joe is far from a good guy himself, while his obsession in season 2, Love Quinn, reveals her self to be a serial killer. Then you have Love’s parents who arranged their son Forty to get molested when he was 13, so yeah the heinous standard is kinda high her.

That said rape is a rare crime here, and Henderson is revealed to be a sadistic pedophile (and currently the only confirmed pedophile) who has raped countless of girls with the photos of them being evidence that proves his guilt. So yeah I believe that Henderson is uniquely heinous enough to stand out

Final Verdict?

I will leave it to you guys to decide.

Edited by G-Editor on Mar 8th 2020 at 10:44:29 PM

Howdy everyone! Now that I finally beat the Legacy series, I can do this. So, we shall begin with Deimos.

What's the work?

Demon Legacy is the first in the Legacy duology. It follows Slade (no, not that one), a boy training in the Kingdom of Ragan, as he encounters and battles the sinister wraith Shadar to stop his plans. In the process, he learns of the truth behind the world and the Gods that rule it.

So, because Deimos appears first, he goes first.

Who is Arch Duke Deimos? What does he do?

Deimos is a member of the Big Bad Ensemble and the ruler of a significant portion of the world. As eventually revealed, he is actually the Wheel of Reincarnation, the entity that created humans and reincarnates them when they die. He was created by Proteus, the God figure, and he was to help him watch over the world along with the Demi-Gods.

But Deimos got greedy. While never explicitly stated, since he created humanity, it is thus implied that he was the one who turned humans against the Demi-Gods in the first place, bullying them relentlessly. In fact, he was the one that eventually sealed them and Proteus away, so that he could become the uncontested ruler of the world. He then created a bunch of Ambiguously Human avatars to watch over the world.

In his first appearance, he saves Slade and Sharn from Shadar, and takes the duo to his tower. He then betrays them by leading them into a trap to 'test' them, and to have them meet up with Faust, who takes them to fight Shadar. It is revealed that Deimos had actually sent many adventurers to fight Shadar- all of whom have been killed. Of course, Deimos cares not for innocent lives. The heroes go on the run after failing to beat Shadar, while Deimos sends multiple golems after them.

Among the heroes is Iris, a golem he created. The golems, as we learn, are made by him out of dead bodies. He considers the golems his children, but boy is he one horrible father- he basically treats them like tools, never teaching them the joys of living and socializing. Eventually, the heroes meet Orion, a golem Deimos made. At first, all seems normal- but then Orion goes nuts and kills a whole bunch of innocent people. It turns out that Deimos implanted a device in Orion that makes him go nuts whenever Deimos commands it. Another golem, Lambert, was discarded by Deimos, and ended up becoming the tyrannical mayor of a village who would force the poor citizens to starve and live in the slums while the rich people partied with him.

Deimos is also not above Offing the Offspring. When he sends a trio of golems to fight the heroes and one of them dies, he states that, because she is a golem and not human, she was not killed, but destroyed. He then kills Fianna for failing him, and when Saurius objects and says that he cannot overlook his father's evil deeds any longer, Deimos Mind Rapes him and sends him to kill the heroes, not caring if he dies. He captures Iris herself as well, and plots to stuff her with energy so she can be used as a weapon against the awakened Demi-Gods.

When the heroes finally face him, he kills his own two druid helpers to absorb their energy, before revealing his true form as the Wheel of Reincarnation. Orion then sacrifices himself to kill Deimos for good. However, he still survives somewhat, and tries to kill Slade and Iris to revive himself. Even though he fails, he leaves one final gift: he has driven Abel, another major antagonist, completely insane, and sends Abel to destroy the world on his behalf, presumably out of spite that he doesn't get to rule it anymore.

Heinousness?

He and Apollo, as two members of the Big Bad Ensemble, set it. Of the other two, Shadar is also a mass-murderer, but he is a Well-Intentioned Extremist, and Proteus is also a mass-murderer, but he was driven insane. Every other villain fails the standard, most notably Arianna and Christopher, who do kill quite a bit of people but not as much as Deimos and Apollo. Also, Deimos goes beyond mass-murder with the Human Resources and Abusive Parents thing.

Mitigating Qualities?

None. He is said by Shadar to keep his pawns 'close to his heart', but given how readily he abuses and kills them, this is clearly no genuine affection. When Durandal, a golem he created, is killed by Shadar, he reacts with shock and despair- because Shadar killed one of his most powerful creations and thus kinda bruised his ego, not because he actually cared about Durandal. Also, he was created by Proteus, but was intended as a benevolent caretaker- Deimos went completely against his orders by usurping Proteus and the Demi-Gods. Nothing suggests Deimos doesn't have agency.

Verdict?

Easiest keep in the duology. The others are a bit harder, but I can vouch for them.

Henderson and Deimos.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Mar 9th 2020 at 10:04:09 AM

Alright, now for Apollo.

Who is Apollo of the Absolute Will? What has he done?

Apollo is the leader of the Demi-Gods. In the past, he had protected humanity from outside threats... but, after the mistreatment he received, he decided to overthrow Proteus. He drives Proteus, his father, to madness, and imprisons him inside the Firebrand, a sword he made. He then sends the sword to Earth, fully intending for some sucker to pick it up and Kill All Humans. Kahn, another Demi-God, winds up being the one to do so, and a lot of people die as a result.

Eventually, Deimos seals Apollo and his siblings away. Apollo tricks the heroes into freeing him, then unleashes terror. He orders Arianna and Loki to assault the Ragan Kingdom and kill everyone there, which they do (though mostly Arianna; Loki just kinda stands there disapprovingly) and only objects when Arianna leaves the corpses behind (presumably instead of disposing of them). He also has them kill government officials. Then Apollo himself, after Deimos dies, shows up and personally destroys the city of Darnia, killing everyone inside.

Slade wakes up in Averron, Apollo's planned utopia, suffering Electric Torture by Arianna. As it turns out, Apollo and his followers have been enslaving the spirits of their victims, using some of them to power the crystals keeping Averron floating. His eventual plan is to destroy humanity and replace them with a 'perfect' race. He also revives Maribel and manipulates her into crossing the Despair Event Horizon, then sends her and a revived Christopher after Slade to kill him.

Perhaps his greatest display of personal evil, besides his abuse of his siblings, is what he did with Abel, a young boy with Abusive Parents whom Apollo manipulated into becoming The Dragon. He has Abel kill people and do some evil things as well.

...Unfortunately, just when it seems like the final battle with Apollo is at hand, a now-insane Abel goes and kills him for you, so you never get to bring him to justice. Total Anti-Climax, isn't it?

Heinousness?

He and Deimos set it. Mass-murderer, Human Resources, and such. Basically everything that goes wrong can ultimately be traced back to them.

Mitigating Qualities?

Now, here is the thing. The story of the creation of the world goes like this:

With Proteus, were his five Demi god sons created by the latent negative traits of mankind. The latent emotion that would be abundant in a normal, non-utopian plane. Loki of the dark hand was created by the world's missing violence. Odín of the searing light was created from mankind's stray avarice. Arianna of the burning eyes was created from mankind's repressed lust. Kahn of the thunderous fist was created from mankind's bewilderment. And lastly... the Demi god you released... Apollo, of the absolute will, was created by the utopia's latent malice. These negative entities would, ironically serves as the world's protectors.

So, the Demi-Gods are Made of Evil? Seems like an instant disqualifier...

But, as the story states, the Demi-Gods originally protected humanity from outside threats, and were specifically intended to do so. It was only when humans began abusing them that they rebelled. Even then, the Demi-God Kahn is flat-out heroic in spite of being Made of Evil, as his reincarnation is Slade, The Hero, whom he guides to save the world. Kahn only killed millions of people because he was possessed by an insane Proteus, not of his own will. Loki, despite being the embodiment of war and violence, is ironically the least violent of the Demi-Gods, and only follows Apollo because Loki believes that opposing Apollo is futile. When Slade proves him wrong, he is happy and gives Slade what little help he can. Even Odín and Arianna have their sympathetic moments. Apollo has none. Also, Orion states at one point that no one is beyond redemption, even Apollo. That Apollo stays evil to the end is thus indicated to be his choice. He can redeem himself- he just chooses not to.

TL;DR: The Demi-Gods, despite being Made of Evil, are fully capable of choosing to be good, as Kahn and Loki do.

Other than that, we never actually see humans abuse him unlike with the others, so he comes across as a maniac perfectionist. And any thought that he does it in behalf of his siblings is dashed when we see him abuse Arianna and disregard the well-being of the others, even trying to kill Kahn for opposing him. Apollo is in it for himself.

Verdict?

I say this is a rare instance of a Made of Evil character managing to demonstrate agency, but I would like to hear your thoughts.

Edited by MasterN on Mar 9th 2020 at 10:17:16 AM

Deimos and Apollo

Deimos and Apollo

Joshua

Otto

Satan

Edited by KazuyaProta on Mar 8th 2020 at 12:23:31 PM

Alright, now for the sequel. Last post of the series.

What's the work?

Phantom Legacy is the sequel to Demon Legacy. Taking place years after the original, it follows Nero, a golem boy, as he ventures out of the forest in which he lived and discovered the truth of what occurred, eventually taking up the fight against Shadar and finishing what Slade started.

So Shadar is once again a Big Bad, but he is not our candidate. Instead, his rival, and a helper of said rival, are the ones I will discuss.

Henderson, Deimos, Apollo, Malaki and Haizum

Benevolent Ones, Barrie, Kahn, Gentlemen, Nyarly, Satan, Schmidt, Henderson, Deimos, Apollo, Malakai and Haizum

Haman and Shardar

Abstain on PAMA

Essentially "chipping" is sort of brainwashing, as PAMA taken all villagers under her control to do what it wanted them to do (work and organize everything to be "useful").

Okay how bad is this depicted ?

I don't remember any deaths or threat of someone dying or being seriously damaged (aside from protagonists and some zombies, who were also under PAMA's control), all i remember is just PAMA making people work endlessly.

Check for yourself:

Henderson, Deimos, Apollo, Malakai and Haizum

YAM: I saw that Cold Case ep, and I don't think that guy counts. IIRC, it was an accident killing all those people, and he seemed shocked at the first murder. Feel free to rewatch the ep though.

For Thorgal, was Heraclius officially approved? I remember I had some issues with him.

Henderson; Legacy quartet.

to Henderson, Deimos, Apollo, Malakai and Haizum.

to Satans, Henderson (who is not Old Man Henderson who killed Hastur), Nyarlathotep, Deimos, Apollo, Malakai, Haizum.

to Shardar.

I'll catch up in a bit, but, just for info there: Generally speaking, 5 more yeas than nays (or resounding consensus). The person who did the EP is typically expected to write up the example.

Satans, Henderson, Nyarlathotep, Deimos, Apollo, Malakai, Haizum.

I was checking the Visual Novel CM Page and I notice we still haven't put Haruka from Shining Song Starnova yet despite the entree already being made. I think we forgot to do it, so I'm just going to give a quick reminder.

It's been requested; the mods are just behind.

Also, RIP Max von Sydow. He played Ming the Merciless & Leland Gaunt.

Edited by ACW on Mar 9th 2020 at 9:21:57 AM

Demon Legscy villains

RIP Max von Sydow. Talented actor with a vast resume. We lost Ming the Merciless and Leland Gaunt.

Edited by therealjackieboy on Mar 9th 2020 at 6:20:05 AM

...God, that sucks to wake up to. I'll rewatch the Seventh Seal and Exorcist in his honor soon.