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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

PureGrainAlkaSeltzer The Lord Of Walruses from 1200 Pennsylvania Ave Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
The Lord Of Walruses
#182651: Sep 12th 2019 at 10:43:28 AM

[tup] to Jeanne, Mireau, Attila, Anton, Gilles, the Tyrant, and the Cleric

I have no idea what I am doing
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#182652: Sep 12th 2019 at 10:43:47 AM

[tup] Cleric.

[up] You mean the ruler, Seltzer?

Edited by SkyCat32 on Sep 12th 2019 at 1:45:50 PM

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#182653: Sep 12th 2019 at 10:48:07 AM

VVV, am I going crazy, or was there a previous Medal of Honor candidate I can't seem to find?

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
VeryVileVillian (Apprentice)
#182654: Sep 12th 2019 at 10:52:18 AM

[up]Graf von Schrader from Medal of Honor: European Assault.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#182655: Sep 12th 2019 at 10:52:25 AM

Nazi dude

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#182656: Sep 12th 2019 at 10:58:31 AM

Okay, fuck, I must be losing it. I forgot Scraggle's music trio, and I may've forgotten about Graft. Ah well, at can submit the Medal duo together.

I guess that's what happens when batches get SO big?

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#182657: Sep 12th 2019 at 11:06:43 AM

I'll give a yes to Cleric and Ruler

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
G-Editor Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#182659: Sep 12th 2019 at 11:29:16 AM

[tup] to the Ruler and the Cleric.

Keshali Since: Jul, 2019
#182660: Sep 12th 2019 at 11:32:27 AM

[tup] DnD classes

Edited by Keshali on Sep 12th 2019 at 11:32:53 AM

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#182661: Sep 12th 2019 at 11:42:27 AM

BTW, for Voltron, those 2 images may work, with God Save Us from the Empress! as the caption. Any good quotes? Or a header?

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
therealjackieboy Ultimate Moral Compass from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Ultimate Moral Compass
#182662: Sep 12th 2019 at 11:53:10 AM

[tup] Ruler Cleric

"No running in the halls!"
GeorgieEnkoom Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II from Somewhere. Since: Feb, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
VeryVileVillian (Apprentice)
#182664: Sep 12th 2019 at 12:03:01 PM

Medal of Honor writeups:

Medal of Honor: European Assault: Graf von Schrader is a high ranking Nazi officer, who was behind the project of developing the upgrades to Nazi weaponry and technology, as well as creation of new weapons. Spreading his henchmen across the Europe, Schrader has them develop and use new Nazi technology against the Allies, killing many innocent people. As Lieutenant William Holt tracks him down, Schrader creates atomic dirty bomb, called "Virus House", which he planes to drop on London, which would kill thousands of people. When American forces attacked his facility, Schrader activates the bomb, trying to take down all American troops along with him, while never caring about the fact that all his men will die as well.

Medal of Honor: Warfighter: Hassan Rasheed AKA The Cleric is the leader of several terrorist factions in Middle East, who is in reality a wealthy Arab banker from Dubai. Convincing hundreds of people to follow his cause of "fighting the Eagle", The Cleric trains them in weaponry and sends them to commit various terrorist acts, like taking half a dozen people hostage and try to kill them and soldiers, who arrive to save them. Discovering a powerful bomb, called PETN, Hassan sends several suicide bombers to various train stations to blow themselves up and kill countless innocent people. When Task Force discovers his base of operations and attacked it, Hassan sets his building on fire, along with all his men inside and tries to blow himself up, hoping to take down the US soldiers with him.

Edited by VeryVileVillian on Sep 12th 2019 at 10:04:25 PM

KingofNightmares Since: Sep, 2016 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#182665: Sep 12th 2019 at 12:15:21 PM

Time for another EP from me. I can't help but feel like this villain is similar to the villain from my last EP......

What is the Work

Pokémon Dark Rising is a series of Pokémon fan-games. They started off being about the hero trying to defeat Darugis, who has returned after being supposedly defeated long ago. The first two games are pretty much playable fan-fiction, what with the references to the Anime and Atem being a Gym Leader. However, Dark Rising 2 had a Shocking Swerve Downer Ending (which I will get to later), which led to the events of Pokemon Dark Rising: Order Destroyed, and after that, Pokemon Dark Rising 3, which isn't out yet. No, my candidate isn't Darugis, but rather the Big Bad of Order Destroyed and the Greater-Scope Villain of the series as a whole: Hoopa

Who is Hoopa? What has he Done?

Hoopa is a Mythical Pokemon that wanted to make the world exactly how he wanted it to be. His plan involved getting rid of both Arceus and Darugis so that both light and dark, good and evil and everything else would be under his control. Hoopa claims in Order Destroyed that he "sent Arceus to oblivion" and tellingly, the Arceus seen in the first two games turns out to be Hoopa. For more details on this, Arceus seems to be an ally who drives the hero to defeating Darugis to begin with, and late-game in Dark Rising 2, he joins your party and helps you at times. At the end, it turns out that you have to sacfrifice yourself to forever seal away Darugis. Right before your death, the Shocking Swerve Downer Ending I mentioned happens: "Arceus" reveals himself as Hoopa, declaring that order over the world is his. I could rant on about how forced this twist is, but I won't.

In Order Destroyed, in which you play as the rival from the first 2 games, we see the world where Hoopa has order: In which there are random distorted areas, no functional Pokemon Centers or anything, causing Pokemon to die if they faint, and the Trainer's Curse has been inflicted on all Pokemon Trainers, which kills them if they lose battles by sucking them into a void for them to eventually return as a mindless zombie, the zombies hunting down trainers to turn into more of them, with no mercy given to children. You can also see lifeless bodies around some areas. The trainer's curse also causes the protagonist to end up killing some people, which causes some grief.

Hoopa first appears in person shortly after you first meet Aizen (not that Aizen), in which Hoopa is revealed to be the one behind this apocalypse if there was ever any doubt, then he states that once he's "ready", he will kill all of the heroes, saying that it would be a happy ending for him. When asked why he did this by Zyree, he responds with the question "if you could make the whole world exactly the way you want it to be, would you?" He then states that in his world, the heroes don't deserve to exist. He also reveals that he found it funny when he manipulated the hero from Dark Rising and Dark Rising 2. During the next encounter with Hoopa, he reveals that all of the protagonist's friends have been scattered across the world, alone, scared and confused. Hoopa then reveals his goal of creating a new world where "there is no good or bad, only perfection."

Aizen then encourages you to put some of your Pokemon into The Machine (read: the only PC in the game), only for it to be revealed that Hoopa created the machine, Aizen was Evil All Along and now whatever Pokemon you put in the machine is now gone forever, with Zyro's Scyther suffering this fate, and Hoopa mocking Zyro about that fact. Then he reveals that Arceus is pretty much dead. Next encounter, Hoopa taunts the protagonist more about the fact that he and the hero from DR 1 and 2 were never chosen ones, then taunts him by leaving again when he tries to challenge Hoopa.

The next encounter with Hoopa is after the protagonist defeats Sludge, Hoopa reveals that he made some zombies look like humans to see if the protagonist would hold back. He didn't, and Hoopa taunts him that he's becoming a cold-hearted killer, then he takes Sludge to be "fixed", presumably turning him into a zombie. Next time we see Hoopa, he's turned Joel into a zombie after having the Pied Piper lure him into the Luring Cave and killing him offscreen. Hoopa then has zombie Joel battle the protagonist, but luckily, Zyro and Zyree are able to revive him with powers that they had being the offspring of Zygarde. Hoopa after this flips out, shouting that they ruined his fun, stating his hatred for Zygarde, and that next time the heroes meet him, he will destroy them.

In the final encounter with Hoopa at the end of the game, he verbally assaults Zyro and Zyree to make them feel like they're worthless. This doesn't stick, thanks to the protagonist and Joel, and then Hoopa flips out again. He then finally battles the protagonist and defeats him, therefore killing him, but allowing Zyro, Zyree and Joel to escape. Assuming the player somehow manages to defeat Hoopa, he simply shrugs it off and tells you that he's going to battle you again and again until you die.

Currently, Dark Rising 3 is not out yet. We just now need to wait for it to be released

Mitigating Factors?

Sludge claims that Hoopa was going to give him his own kingdom if he killed the protagonist, but this clearly isn't the case Hoopa says people like Sludge don't deserve to exist shortly after. He is allied with Aizen and the Pied Piper, but he doesn't exactly share any Pet the Dog moments with them, and him not having Aizen die when he lost could just be him wanting to keep an ally

He is quite childish in mannerisms, and he even calls himself a Troll, but everything he does is taken seriously. He also isn't an actual child since he's at least a million years old and knows what good and evil are

Hoopa calls himself generous when he reveals a way to cheat the system he implimented, but he is basically advocating cheating

For a more difficult one to defend, him killing Arceus is Offscreen Villainy, the only evidence being that Arceus is nowhere to be found, and I'm not sure if that's enough evidence to make it count toward Hoopa's heinousness

Heinousness?

This series has many vile villains. Darugis himself brainwashed a cult of children to worship him, caused points of destruction and ruined many lives indirectly, tried to sink a populated town underwater and ultimately tried to destroy the world. V's goal was to be able to torture the protagonist for eternity, tried to sink a ship full of innocent people and turned his children to stone for an unknown amount of time that is implied to be long. Light kidnapped some children and (temporarily) drained their souls. Giovanni had a plan to wipe out all Pokemon that started with attempted to kill baby Pokemon. Even the rival of DR 2 (the protagonist of Order Destroyed) tried to destroy the world when overwhelmed with power from Yveltal.

Despite all this, Hoopa stands out in how much he finds these evil acts fun and in his successful bodycount, directly or indirectly. And like Darugis, he also wanted to destroy the world, instead of just destroying the world, he's planning on remaking it as his own playground.

Is the Fan Work Schlock?

No. While Order Destroyed gets very dark, the corpses in the environments are simply Bloodless Carnage and look like they're just laying down, and the game doesn't describe any injuries. The trainer's curse death is simply described as a void sucking the trainers in. And it isn't pointless grimdark, as things are looking up for the better by the end and Dark Rising 3 may be less oppressive. And the first 2 games are pretty much E10+, maybe low-end T material, and we've allowed worse from Fan Works based on kid's media

And Hoopa is not a Ron the Death Eater case, as this doesn't seem to be the same Hoopa from Pokémon: Hoopa and the Clash of Ages

Conclusion

You decide

EDIT: I'll throw in a [tup] for the Cleric and the Ruler

Edited by KingofNightmares on Sep 12th 2019 at 9:08:08 AM

—signature not found—
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#182666: Sep 12th 2019 at 12:33:04 PM

[tup] Hoopa.

  • Hate Eternal's "Fury Within": The unidentified Ruler is a cruel tyrant who has already burned down cities for rebelling against him, and intends to lay waste to the realm, burning survivors at the stakes, refusing to show any mercy whatsoever to his rebellious subjects. As a matter of fact, the Ruler takes pleasure in tormenting his subjects as they beg for mercy — mocking their weakness as he does so — and intends to override the ideology of his enemies. Throughout the song, the Ruler can be heard cursing his subjects for their disloyalty and vowing revenge.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Sep 13th 2019 at 8:21:13 AM

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#182667: Sep 12th 2019 at 12:33:28 PM

[tup] to Rais, Cleric and Ruler.

How do you feel about this Palpatine image from Star Wars: Infinities: A New Hope?

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#182668: Sep 12th 2019 at 12:35:19 PM

Looks kind of generic, but looks feasible enough.

VeryVileVillian (Apprentice)
#182669: Sep 12th 2019 at 12:35:55 PM

[up][up]Maybe we should replace current image for Star Wars page with this one, because it does seem to be better fit, greatly showcasing Palpatine's cruelty with basically the same action, but against more people?

Edited by VeryVileVillian on Sep 12th 2019 at 10:36:08 PM

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#182670: Sep 12th 2019 at 12:36:45 PM

I don't see any need to change the Star Wars picture. That one, on its own, works decently, I suppose.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#182671: Sep 12th 2019 at 12:42:22 PM

[tup]Hoopa

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
TheAlmightyKingPrawn Darkwing Goose from Surrounding the mind of A Self Called Nowhere Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Darkwing Goose
#182672: Sep 12th 2019 at 12:54:49 PM

[tup] Cleric and Hoopa

SP00PY month!
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
DelphineTheDelphox I thought sharks were my friends. from The Alola Region Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: Squeeeeeeeeeeeee!
I thought sharks were my friends.
#182674: Sep 12th 2019 at 1:21:01 PM

Yay to Hoopa.

RIP KissAnime.
Libraryseraph Showtime! from Canada (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You

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