During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Goku Black
Huh weird I thought we had that for awhile now
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Sorry, Duck! Yes, you were.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Maybe; I may've just not noticed it. I AM aware of Dystopia Justifies the Means (hello Darkseid).
Goku Black
Its honestly amazing what you can find by just browsing trope ages at random, I got the idea to recommend Von Berkow from The Passage to lighty as I stumbled on the page by random once and man he sounded bad enough for a look.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Same thing happened with Serial Rapist and Thomas Wilder.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone i’ve missed, ESPECIALLY Arthur Haines.
Yeah, I got Haines from Serial Rapist too.
Goku Black
Speaking of which.
The only entry that Im aware of from the literature list that has never been discussed would be this guy (Interestingly most of these guys there are up already):
- A major plot point in Hurting Distance, as Naomi Jenkins was kidnapped and raped by a man who is later revealed to have done the exact same thing to several women before her - onstage in front of paying customers, to make it even more horrifying.
Sounds uh... worth a look. Anyone interested
Edited by miraculous on Apr 2nd 2019 at 12:44:59 PM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Looking at Hurting Distance, seems we may have an issue:
- Not So Different: Naomi and Juliet are actually very similar, successful, driven businesswomen who both underwent extremely traumatic events. This was all done on purpose - Robert wanted to pick women he knew had been destroyed by Graham, so he could nurture them back to full health, only to destroy them with the knowledge that he is the brother of their rapist, and knew the whole time that they had been raped.
- Graham ends up being impaled in the eye, then thrown in prison for the rest of his life, knowing his younger brother, whom he genuinely loves, has been killed by one of the women he raped.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Also, let's go with this for Grande:
- Tweeny Witches: Grande, the leader and general of the Warlocks, continues an over-two-century-long ethnic cleansing campaign against the Wizards. Planning the destruction of the Human Realm with the forbidden dark magic, the effect of which he knows would drive every living thing to despair, he schemed to steal the True Book of Spells from the Grand Master of Witches. When a prophet advised him against the use of dark magic, he swallowed the prophet whole, with the prophet's young son Sigma watching. When the Warlocks discover that all the captive fairies escaped from the Witch Realm, Grande ordered his men to attack the Witch Realm and to bring him the escaped fairies and the True Book of Spells. He manipulated an inept apprentice witch named Eva into casting dark magic as the traitor among the witches under the pretense that he would make her a great witch. While he claims to be making a new home for his species to escape the eventual destruction of the Magical Realm, in reality, he's nothing more than a power-hungry hypocrite willing to hurt even his own people as long as he can rule everything.
Yeah to Haines.
Short-Term Projects herald
Haines. Passes the haines-ous standard.
Current mood: sick of your shit
Just throwing this out there, but do we have any C Ms from early cartoons (like 1920-1950)?
Read "Ghost Stories of Remnant" here.
Goku Black
Only one Im aware off is the Coachman from Pinocchio
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Current mood: sick of your shit
I was just watching through some of those old Superman shorts and stuff like that, I know because of the time period and the way cartoons were done back then that the villains weren't taken too seriously, so it just made me curious.
Read "Ghost Stories of Remnant" here.
Btw, if he's still pending, anyone mind if I have a look at Hyperion from Squadron Supreme? There's another from the J. Michael Straczynski series 've meant to look at, too.
Go for it, Lighty.
Arthur Haines.
~ACW, the capital letters of "Warlocks" and "Wizards" are should be spelled in lower cases since that's how the official subtitles by Media Blasters write. Also, the "Witches" part of the Grand Master of Witches should be capitalized since it is her name in the closing credits:
- Tweeny Witches: Grande, the leader and general of the warlocks, continues an over two-century-long ethnic cleansing campaign against the wizards. Planning the destruction of the Human Realm with the forbidden dark magic, the effect of which he knows would drive every living thing to despair, he schemed to steal the True Book of Spells from the Grand Master of Witches. When a prophet advised him against the use of dark magic, he swallowed the prophet whole, with the prophet's young son, Sigma, Forced to Watch. When the warlocks discover that all the captive fairies escaped from the Witch Realm, Grande orders his men to attack the Witch Realm and to bring him the escaped fairies and the True Book of Spells. He manipulates an inept apprentice witch named Eva into casting dark magic as the traitor among the witches under the pretense that he would make her a great witch. While he claims to be making a new home for his species to escape the eventual destruction of the Magical Realm, in reality, he's nothing more than a power-hungry Hypocrite willing to hurt even his own people as long as he can rule everything.
Edited by IukaSylvie on Apr 2nd 2019 at 11:05:32 PM
Birdygamer
I think we should remove Alive Angel/Susie Campbell as a Complete Monster for three reasons:
1. Most of her actions are off screen
2. She has no clear moral standard due to being a demon
3. Her actions don't really stand out to be a Complete Monster
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
And fixed on the YMMV page and in the batch.
- Tweeny Witches: Grande, the leader and general of the warlocks, continues an over-two-century-long ethnic cleansing campaign against the wizards. Planning the destruction of the Human Realm with the forbidden dark magic, the effect of which he knows would drive every living thing to despair, he schemed to steal the True Book of Spells from the Grand Master of witches. When a prophet advised him against the use of dark magic, he swallowed the prophet whole, with the prophet's young son Sigma watching. When the warlocks discover that all the captive fairies escaped from the Witch Realm, Grande ordered his men to attack the Witch Realm and to bring him the escaped fairies and the True Book of Spells. He manipulated an inept apprentice witch named Eva into casting dark magic as the traitor among the witches under the pretense that he would make her a great witch. While he claims to be making a new home for his species to escape the eventual destruction of the Magical Realm, in reality, he's nothing more than a power-hungry hypocrite willing to hurt even his own people as long as he can rule everything.
What work?
Edited by ACW on Apr 2nd 2019 at 7:59:04 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Lizzid people!
Kylotrope already made a case for Susie Campbell.
Edited by AustinDR on Apr 2nd 2019 at 5:02:36 AM
IMO, I could hear out the idea of cutting Campbell.
BTW, I discovered Despotism Justifies the Means. Could come in handy in some cases instead of It's All About Me.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts