During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Goku Black
Well say we get a case where the Big Bad is a Sealed Evil in a Can and the dragon's job is to free them. All the atrocities done there to free them would fall to the dragon. Correct ?
Also hey I did a bit of research on Ian Brown from The Melissa Allen Trilogy who had an unapproved entry I brought up a few pages back. Seems he's The Dragon to an Eldtrich Abomniation nammed "The Colansce" which is destroying the planet. From what I've read he sounds like a very easy keep.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Be glad to give a look unless you want it, Mir
Goku Black
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
All yours man. Ive alrwwdy got a long reading list of stuff I want to check out. Btw he's appenrlty from the second book Never Let Me Leave
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
@miraculous Very very late reply but sorry about mistaking the guy with Fantasy version of Tatsuoki Furumizu man haha...
Anyways, just come back and read a Shonen Jump manga recently. The manga is dark even by Jump standards and I just hope it'll survive in a brutal environment of Jump.
Also, currently skimming Kekkaishi. Thanks @Lightysnake for recommending it to me.
And as for Diana... Uhhh, I'll abstain.
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
By the way, another CM preference question. Do you prefer an emotional CM or an emotionless CM? Is it more interesting to see them gloat when their plans succeed, rage when they fail, and engage in melodramtic self pity; or do you like the character who does not seem to be effected by anything?
Edited by randomtroper89 on Dec 6th 2018 at 5:36:34 AM
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Guys, dont ignore Beast's EP that he posted on previous page please?
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Dec 6th 2018 at 6:44:20 PM
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
Yes to Diana on grounds of Exceptionally villainous goals.
Things are really about to get Fun around here
Goku Black
I'll abstain on Diana
Anyway could I get some votes on doing a Caption swap
Since this is a democracy. You guys can chose between 1 and 2. I'll do a count tommorow
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Think I can vote for the expanded quote better Mir.
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
No to Diana. Sounds like she's a bit too dependent on Nia in her villainy to stand out properly.
@Mirac: 1.
Edited by Scraggle on Dec 6th 2018 at 5:01:34 AM
The Draftsman of Doom
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
I'm gonna have to vote 1.
Things are really about to get Fun around here
Shin Megami Tensei IV
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Diana Sydney
Sad
Edited by KazuyaProta on Dec 6th 2018 at 7:57:00 AM
Watch me destroying my country
@G-Editor: Hey, seriously, don't worry. No bad blood in the least. i'm just very passionate about Bloodborne is all. I hope I haven't discouraged you, since I really don't want that. Thank you for the kind words and I'm happy to have you as a part of our community here and on the MB thread as well. I'm fine with Sverri, while we're at it.
For Wreck It Ralph 2, Scraggle is correct. There's a shady fellow voiced by Alfred Molina, but he does almost nothing, just gives out a virus that goes out of control without his intent.
I'll abstain on Diana.
The wifi here sucks
voting 1 on the caption swap
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
Going to vote no on Diana for the reasons stated above. An example of a Dragon that does more than what they were told and enjoys it, thus counting is Dickson, Dragon to Zanza.
No one counts in Dai Gyakuten Saiban.or it's sequel. Closest is a Redd White clone but he fails the heinous standard especially when compared to the Big Bad of the second game who may well be one of AA juggernauts for on screen bodycounts. But he doesn't count due to being a Well Intentioned Extremist. (Would murdering your way to the top of Britain's legal system to prevent crime be well intentioned? Or is he like Light?)
The villain I am referring to is Hart Vortex. Feel free to check the AA Wiki and if there's enough consensus for him I'll EP him. I know Fried Warthog normally does the AA effortposts but I believe I did Phantom.
Edited by Klavice on Dec 6th 2018 at 5:56:49 AM
to Diana
Glad to hear that PolarPhantom 
Anywho I'll being going to a trip for about 3 weeks to California and Las Vegas. I'll be leaving on the 8th and returning back on the 27th so don't expect anything major from me during those times (Ill try to pop in to vote) but hey, at least I got one candidate approve before I go.
Edited by G-Editor on Dec 6th 2018 at 3:57:13 AM
Just called dibs on Far Cry: New Dawn.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Well, here's another candidate I've gotten.
What's the Work?
Rambo: The Force of Freedom is a 65-Episode Cartoon produced by Ruby-Spears that ran for one season in 1986. It's based on David Morrell's book First Blood and the films First Blood and Rambo: First Blood Part II. In this show, Rambo was watered down from a war veteran suffering from PTSD to an everyman fighting for justice. With the help of his pals, Turbo and Kat, he goes around the world fighting against an evil organization called S.A.V.A.G.E. (Specialist-Administrators of Vengeance, Anarchy and Global Extortion), led by my candidate.
Who is He? What Has He Done?
General Warhawk is the sunglasses-wearing leader of S.A.V.A.G.E. He is a former European army captain who was convicted of selling state secrets and deported for his coup. He appears in 62 of the 65 episodes (95%) of the show, but I'm sticking with his worst crimes:
- 2: He steals a warplane called Specter to take over Tierre Libre.
- 3: He has Mad Dog kidnap Estrella, The President's Daughter to convince the president to surrender.
- 4: He allies with Admiral Nomak to raise the battleship Yamato.
- 10: He has the Count kidnap Dr. Herbert Kengsington to use neutron fusion energy to Take Over the World.
- 11: He makes a plot to plant a bomb under The White House.
- 12: He teams up with the Cult of the Cobra to halt food supplies to Asam.
- 13: He tries to blow up Boulder Dam as a diversion so that he can rob the casino money in Las Vegas, Nevada.
- 15: He sets his sight on the Suez Canal, demands to be paid $1000000, and blows up all shipping when the person on the other end refuses to comply.
- 16: He has Gripper and Mad Dog hold a teacher and her students hostage, and has Sergeant Havoc and Nomad threaten to blow up the Eiffel Tower.
- 17: He and his goons steal relief supplies a country which has been torn apart by natural disasters.
- 18: He organizes the theft of the USS Typhoon to auction to terrorists.
- 22: He steals a white rhino to start a was between two neighboring countries.
- 25: He grabs a probe to gather samples so he can gain microbes that turn people crazy.
- 30: He seizes control of the Warton Missile Complex and launches an attack from the missile base to all of North America when his demands aren't met.
- 31: He and Dr. Blackburn use a mind-control box on a killer whale to attack the NORAD Bases.
- 36: He attempts to capture children to discredit our heroes, and later (with the help of the pilot) causes their plane to crash in Africa.
- 37: He has drug created to turn cowboys crazy.
- 38: He has a scientist brainwash people so he can get plans for a laser to shoot down a satellite.
- 40: He and his troops hijack a supertanker, planning to cause an ecological disaster unless his demands for a warship are met.
- 44: He sends his men to kidnap a dog to steal a chip from its collar.
- 46: He has elderly people driven out of their homes so he can dig into a military base and steal a supertank.
- 51-52: He hijacks a NATO base and tries to auction its supplies to other terrorists.
- 53: He goes after a doctor and his patient, not caring that the patient needs a kidney transplant.
- 58: He plots with a teenage gang to smuggle cocaine called "Crack".
- 60: He kidnaps a scientist and his daughter to steal the formula for a proton bomb.
- 63: He sends Mad Dog to hijack a space shuttle called Xenon with plans to blow up satellites unless his demands are met.
Heinous Standard?
As the Big Bad, he more than sets it.
None. He's just a power-hungry despot.
Does He Have Other Mitigating Factors?
If he did, do you think I'd be proposing him? He obviously has no attachment to his men, and verbally abuses them at several given opportunities. What's more, not even kids are safe from his evil, and he has had them kidnapped or sought several times.
Verdict?
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
I think he may have enough of an attempted bodycount to make it, but...come now, listing "he tries to steal a dog and deal drugs" alongside "tries to start a war and blow up buildings" shouldn't be done
Hmm... stuff like the drug peddling, trying to murder the heroes, and kidnapping dogs doesn't really sound too heinous. Trying to start wars, blow up national monuments, pelting North America with missiles... that'll do. Yes to Warhawk.
Though I question the context of why he'd need to "drive cowboys crazy."
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
War Head
On the YMMV page for the show, he apparently tries to murder child peace activists.
Like...let's keep the focus where it needs to be on this guy.
Now, if the Dragon is going beyond what's necessary and/or enjoying the acts (i.e., isn't Just Following Orders), then said Dragon could count as well.
Basically, it's one of those case-by-case things.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts