Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Assuming it has the moral agency to be worse than other members of its race, to the wendigo.

Amazingly, the votes for Zoom are now at a ratio of 11:1 in favour. Conclusion: me claiming he'd be a tough call might have been an overstatement.

Well, Kilgrave arguably is one of the most complex Monsters in fiction, so it'd make sense that, when another complex Monster shows up (From the same form of media, no less), people would draw parallels.

That, and Kilgrave's just an awesome villain, so any and all mentions of him are well-deserved.

@DeCarta Yeah, I guess you're right about Caitlin. Maybe I'm just so used to Strong, powerful women who never get scared of villains and who are ''so'' independent they can literally overcome paralysis to walk out on a guy because it's so organic that my mind just cannot compute a woman actually showing raw, vulnerable, emotions.

Arrow watchers, you know what I'm talking about.

edited 7th Jun '16 12:51:10 PM by Ravok

Zoom. I concur that any redeaming quality he might have are obliterated when he tries to kill Caitlyn.

edited 7th Jun '16 1:13:39 PM by Silverblade2

I admit to finding that walking thing really funny.

I agree with you about Kilgrave. He's definitely one of the best written, best acted villains in recent memory. Impressive for a guy so utterly, completely despicable. I'm glad you saw my point about Caitlin. The Arrowverse has some pretty glaring flaws, but it is filled with awesome women who are all great in their own way. I just wish the writers treated them a bit better sometimes.

Well, there's a reason that it's listed as Narm (I definitely saw that somewhere).

edited 7th Jun '16 1:11:02 PM by DeCarta

Mezzenbone's entry, trimmed as much as I felt I could without removing important information:

• Dragonstar: The red wyrm Mezzenbone is the first chromatic emperor of the Dragon Empire after five millennia of good-aligned metallic rulers. Like most of his kind he's cruel and regards non-dragons as cattle at best, but even among his Always Chaotic Evil kin he stands out for his catastrophic plans for the galaxy. During the Dragon War between chromatic and metallic dragons that left many worlds devastated in its wake he was first an important wyrm in the chromatic Asamet Kingdom and then its leader after its first king mysteriously died, and while most abhorred the tragedy of the War Mezzenbone reveled in the slaughter, planning to annihilate friend and foe alike and rule the remains of a lifeless universe as a god. He only changed his mind when he realized the War would claim his life too if it escalated further, and agreed to the truce that would form the Empire only because he knew he needed the 5000 years until his guaranteed ascension to the throne in order to ensure his scheme would unfold flawlessly. In the present day of the setting, forty years after his coronation, he has introduced a number of controversial acts including forming a drow Secret Police, supporting worship of his patron deity the Destroyer, and brutally assimilating new worlds into the Empire. When he believes the time is right Mezzenbone will unleash everything at his disposal (including systems-destroying superweapons and magical artifacts of untold power) and completely shatter all possible opposition to his scheduled omnicide.

Alright I have to ask everyone so we can settle this, do any of you believe Mr. Dark is a CM? I have only seen the movie, and I'm kind of just debating.

Please add it to the Drafts page.

edited 7th Jun '16 1:43:47 PM by ACW

Effort-post?

edited 7th Jun '16 1:50:13 PM by emperors

Hey guys !

I want to write a Big Bad for a fanfic on DB. I had the idea to write her as both a CM and MB. I've read it's apparently a challenge to have a well-written Complete Monster which overlaps with Magnificent Bastard. It's maybe because the roles of a MB and a CM are opposite.

The MB is supposed to invoke the Love To Hate trope. He/she is admired by the fandom through his magnificence, but they should still remember this character is a bastard as well ({{Draco In Leather Pants doesn't play in then}}). The CM is supposed to be the Hate Sink, because as a person, there is by definition nothing to love this villain, and everything to hate.

Though I know quite a lot of villains who manage to be both a CM and a MB (Palpaltine, Super Boo, Yuki Terumi, Johan Liebert, Vandal Savage...), it seems indeed already complicated to invoke the Love to Hate by balancing how magnificent and how much of a bastard a villain is. Stripping the villain from any redeemable traits and making him/her repeatedly cross the Moral Event Horizon on top of that make it tricky, since you have to amp up others qualities of the villain, running the risk to make him/her a Karma Houdini, which screams Villain Sue.

Despite this fact, what advise would you give me to write her ? Or you'd suggest me to write an Anti-Villain Magnificent Bastard instead. In that case, I'd probably run a Well-Intentionned Extremist, since it's a type of villain I have yet to see in the series, making her stand out compared to the previous villains, who are either CM (Frieza, Cell...) or a Noble Demon (Beerus).

edited 7th Jun '16 1:59:51 PM by MiraiYuji

Writers Block would be a better place to post this.

Sounds about right.

edited 7th Jun '16 2:13:04 PM by Monsund

Eh I don't think I'd do that good with a writeup. Haven't read the book and don't remember much from the movie.

Any more thoughts on the Rise of the Runelords wendigo?

Do you have a write up on the wendigo?

I'm intending to watch the film sometime this week.

I'm honestly not convinced the wendigo is that significant. It's a nameless one-off monster (in the literal sense) that's part of an Always Chaotic Evil "species". For that matter, though I'm not really arguing they're qualifiers, there's plenty of other awful people in the same adventure path with more characterization.

Well while I'm here, some C Ms on TV need corrections in there writeups. I'll put the changes in brackets. I'll only write down the mistakes:

Nature Of The Beast, Donovan: Later attending the wedding reception for Rich and his fiance Julia (actually it was just for dinner), he forcefully turns Rich into a werewolf and tries to make him kill Julia's family (both Julia and her family). When Rich resists, Donovan discards him and tries to kill Julia and her family himself (he may have intended to kill all of them, but in this case, he simply meant to kill Julia's family in front of BOTH of them, because he was disgusted that Rich fought the urge to kill her).

Now for Mr. Yin from Psych: Psych: Mr. Yin (also known as Karl Rotmensen) is an even more depraved murderer than his former apprentice and daughter Yang. He introduces himself by murdering several people and arranging the corpses in a Yin/Yang symbol. A fan of Alfred Hitchcock, Yin murders a woman named Mary in a manner reminiscent of the famous “Shower Scene” from Psycho. (ok I noticed TWO big errors here that are driving me nuts: 1. He did not kill a woman named Mary. Mary was a man who was Shawn and Gus' partner in helping them catch Mr. Yin. 2. He did not kill him in a way similar to the shower scene from Psycho. He was killed in a way similar to when "Mother" killed that detective on the staircase in the same film).

edited 7th Jun '16 2:46:48 PM by zcooper95

Let's try this:

• Nature Of The Beast: In this ABC Family original film, Donovan is an Ax-Crazy alpha werewolf who commits wanton violence and murder solely for his own amusement. Disguising himself as an unassuming college professor who teaches Rich, Donovan reveals his true nature as the Alpha werewolf upon slaughtering Rich's friend and cursing Rich to become a werewolf himself. What makes this action worse is that, unlike other werewolves, Donovan has full control over his transformations and has free will all the while, killing Rich's friend and cursing him to lycanthropy solely for sadism. Later attending a dinner Rich and his fiance Julia, he forcefully turns Rich into a werewolf and tries to make him kill Julia's family in front of her and Rick. When Rich resists, Donovan discards him and tries to kill Julia and her family himself, but not before trying to corrupt him into succumbing to his inner beast so Rich would become like him. It's also heavily implied Donovan's responsible for the mass murder of innocents, such as killing a man because he wanted his house. A sadist who reveled in acts from the petty and spiteful to the hateful and murderous, Donovan was a fine example of a beast as monstrous on the inside as he was on the outside.
• Psych: Mr. Yin, also known as Karl Rotmensen, is an even more depraved murderer than his former apprentice and daughter Yang. He introduces himself by murdering several people and arranging the corpses in a Yin/Yang symbol. A fan of Alfred Hitchcock, Yin murders police psychologist Mary Lightly in a manner reminiscent of the staircase scene from Psycho. Using this theme as a distraction, he kidnaps the hero Shawn's girlfriend and forces Sean to choose between catching Yin or saving her. When he reappears, he continues attempting to murder Shawn and everyone close to him. Even worse, he admits that he never loved his daughter—who he raised to become a serial killer herself, thus making him responsible for her killings—yet he was still angry when Shawn indirectly inspired her to finally stand up to him. He's not angry he lost his daughter, he's angry he lost a tool.

edited 7th Jun '16 3:41:22 PM by ACW

"Non-shower-scene?" Is that... really the best terms you can put it in?

"staircase scene" would be better.

That works.

Zoom

Okay, there are now 24 for Zoom vs 2 . He seems to be a keeper. Here's the write-up for him:

• The Flash (2014): Zoom, real name Hunter Zolomon, is a sociopathic speedster from Earth-2 and the Big Bad for Season 2. Originally a Serial Killer with 23 victims to his name, after getting Super-Speed, Zoom revelled in terrorising Central City. Left dying from abusing the Velocity drug, Zoom kidnaps Jay Garrick, the Flash of Earth-3, hoping to steal his speed to save his own life. When this fails, Zoom steals Jay's identity, acting as the Flash to create hope for the sake of destroying it as Zoom, imprisoning the real Jay as a trophy. When the breaches to Earth-1 opened, Zoom plotted to force Barry Allen to become faster in order to steal his speed. Sending metahumans with orders to kill the Flash, Zoom also posed as Jay to earn Barry's trust. Over the course of the season, Zoom murders dozens of people, innocents, police, and his own minions alike. Confronting the Flash for the first time as Zoom, he brutally beats Barry, fractures his spine, and displays his broken body to all of Central City. Zoom also holds Harry Wells' daughter Jesse hostage, using her to try and coerce Harry into stealing the Flash's speed for him. After being cured of his condition, Zoom decides to terrorize Earth-1, unleashing an army of metahumans on Central City. When his army is defeated by the Flash, Zoom kidnaps Barry's father Henry, then murders him in front of Barry. As his endgame, Zoom intends to use a doomsday device to destroy the entire multiverse, sparing only Earth-1 to keep as his personal domain. A brutal, sadistic maniac devoid of remorse, Zoom is a terrifying monster that darkens every scene in which he appears.

Done. It wasn't easy compressing that effort-post into less than 300 words, I don't mind telling you.

edited 7th Jun '16 4:33:58 PM by DeCarta

De Carta: To the Sandbox please.
I can bet

edited 7th Jun '16 4:40:09 PM by ACW