During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Shin Megami Tensei IV
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Boss and Ledoux
Any more votes on Lucian?
A total has-been.
Boss and Captain Ledoux.
On the whole Core subject - Hive Queen is a trope for a reason. The Laconic definition is literally "The leader of a Hive Mind". Aldrich is explicity shown at different points (his voice coming through Darcy's at the end of "The Core and The King", him with the Core's eyes on him shown mentally speaking to Andrias, him being the one to pull the Lotus-Eater Machine and attempted Death of Personality of Marcy, him being called over to Mind Rape Andrias back into fighting mode, his voice + Voice of the Legion being the Core's voice in the finale and him directly calling out to Andrias to tempt him with the offer of joining with the Core should he help them) to be the Hive Queen, or Hive King as it were, of the Core. That's why he gets to qualify rather than the Core in general, which is more like a group and extra mental puppeteers for Darcy.
Any other opinions on this video? I got two responses like a week ago but nothing after
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=6vic3f9h1cy5qivsenw8llok&page=12502#comment-312536
Wild Child
Ledoux.
Since I'm currently watching it, might as well call the Skeleton Knight In Another World anime.
Why so serious?
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Hmm, should I use Hive King for Aldrich instead of Evil Overlord?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Barb / Temporary Kylo
@ACW Maybe that could work
to Ledoux
for Lucian, the Boss, and Ledoux.
- The Big Doll House: Lucian is the sexually sadistic chief guard of a women's prison. After subjecting every new inmate to a painful cavity search, Lucian spends her days looking for any excuse to drag one to her torture chamber, inflicting such heinous tortures that at least one has died. She ends up whipping one prisoner bloody and electrocuting another to near-death, so they plot an escape with their cellmates which involves getting themselves punished. Lucian learns of the plan by withholding cellmate's heroin, denying it anyways and letting her suffer withdrawals when her girlfriend's information isn't satisfactory. Locking the girls in a hot box, she takes one and threatens her with a venomous snake to get her to talk.
Edited by DemonDuckofDoom on May 29th 2022 at 12:05:39 PM
Based on the EP, to Ledoux.
Having for the first time watched both the original Halloween and Halloween (2018) tonight, given the latter movie seems to imply Sartain set Michael free so that he could observe and then find out what he had to say about the things he did, would that mean that he'd count on a re-evalve since he'd have enabled and provided Michael the opportunity into committing more murders just for his own twisted fixation? In addition to nearly murdering Sheriff Hawkins, Sartain also endangers Allyson further by putting her in the backseat of the car with Michael. We've approved others like Sartain before, so I think it's very appropriate to consider him.
Also, given we approved another version of Goeth (besides the one we already had, would probably still be surprised if another version of Epps went up too.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on May 29th 2022 at 12:20:34 PM
Unofficial co-Wiki Curator for Magnificent Bastard
I've been undergoing a wave of nostalgia for flash games over the week, and I managed to remember an old series that was basically Sniping Mission: The Game.
Clear Vision is a series of flash games developed by Daani, starring Jake as a sniper whose family was killed as a young child, and was abducted and forced to enlist as a Child soldier. Later, he becomes a hitman to make ends meet, until one fateful hit leads him into the organization SD-6. After finishing up all remaining jobs he had, he finally retires in peace and eventually dies of natural causes in the fourth game. Cue Continuity Reboot. But he's not what I'm talking about today. Who I am about to talk about is the very villain that shaped Jake into the Cold Sniper he is in the series.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
"The Black Heart", real name unknown, is a general who abducted kids from their homes to raise them into the perfect heartless soldiers, called Force X25. His first appearance in the very first game has him deliver a smile as he raids Jake's house and kills his parents, implying that he has done this to multiple households. Eventually sending him to an unspecified war based on World War II, his appearance in the final act of Clear Vision 4 has him order him to execute prisoners without any questions. During Jake's attempt to assassinate a "high ranking officer", he rediscovers him, and the general orders his guards to attack Jake, and Jake would have been killed had it not for Fred's intervention. In the final act of Clear Vision II, he's later discovered to raise another camp to create more by SD-6, resulting in Operation Scorpion Shell to end him once and for all. After the guard patrolling his camp is killed, he then proceeds to escape from the camp, but is stopped by Jake when he shoots his tires, causing him to crash. Near death and faced by a vengeful Jake, "The Black Heart"'s last words has him saying "Your father screamed like a pig!" Before being shot in the head, putting an end to the mad general. Even after his death, however, his actions caused Jake to develop PTSD towards it, and is only able to find true peace in death afterwards.
Does he have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
He practically forcibly trains children in his camp to become emotionless soldiers to participate in wars, and it's unknown what regime he worked for, but regardless, he doesn't have any mitigating factors at all.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Jake is an Anti-Hero, yes, but he was forcibly trained to be emotionless and free will, and only took up the job of sniping targets as a way to find "The Black Heart", and it's clear throughout the series that he still suffers the trauma of being raised in the camp and having to fight through a war. His targets are jerkasses and innocents of varying degrees, but none of them have ever reached the depravity of the "Black Heart".
Final Verdict?
Big yes.
MB Pending | MB Drafts | MB Dates
The Draftsman of Doom
Easy yes to General Blackheart, had been wondering about him.
Clear Vision does not have a page yet, btw.
Edited by SkyCat32 on May 29th 2022 at 10:50:00 AM
Feels good, don't it?
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Sure to him.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Blackheart should be Meaningful Name too.
Yes to Black Heart.
Now, some bad news, from the original L.A. Confidential:
- Complete Monster: Captain Dudley Liam Smith is a seemingly jovial, friendly police captain who hides a truly dark and monstrous corrupt nature under his smile. Having been personally responsible for the infamous Sleepy Lagoon murder out of racism, Dudley is also heavily involved in crime, clandestinely manipulating and dealing with multiple crime families as he runs a personal squad where he has many people murdered for profit or to cover loose ends even if he has to allow brutal killers to remain at large and committing their crimes. Not even other cops are safe, with Dudley murdering his old lackey Buzz Meeks as a loose end. When the cop Daniel Upshaw stumbles upon evidence of Dudley's murders, Dudley delights in torturing him psychologically by threatening to reveal Upshaw's homosexuality until Upshaw breaks and kills himself. In one brutal gang execution, Dudley would commit his most infamous crime and personally strangle the Herrick family's two-day-old baby to death. With an enormous body count and a complete lack of conscience, mixed with insatiable greed and cruelty, Dudley proves time and time again to be the worst monster on the the crime-infested streets of Los Angeles.
After researching the prequels, he's a cut. He formed a friendship with a gay Japanese man named Hideo and while much like anyone Dudley corrupts and uses him, he does form a bond... of particular note because Dudley in the novels is both viciously homophobic and racist. This comes to head in This Storm and Hideo is killed: Dudley inconsolably weeps over his body and his internal monologue at the end explicitly says he misses him, wires flowers to Hideo's grave and even keeps a locket of Hideo's hair in a traditional Japanese box. Hideo isn't mentioned in the original novels but Ellroy probably came up with the character while writing the prequels and Dudley crying over someone's body, having a monologue saying he misses them and going against his own deeply intolerant values—he's killed minorities for being minorities—to honor a dead friend is way too much to ignore. Sadly I think he's got to go, at least we get his film version!
Edited by 43110 on May 29th 2022 at 12:29:09 PM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Seems like a cut.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
The Draftsman of Doom
Guess Dudley is a dud.
Feels good, don't it?
Lighty and I will take a look for a replacement but this makes me concerned for how the narrative presents villains: Dudley forgets the names of his kids even while presenting a family man image and commits every crime under the sun. It feels like an Aerys Targaryen situation where the original version has just a sliver of humanity in his cold chest.
Yeah, it's unfortunate, but it's the case with the prequel. Sucks.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Cut Book!Dudley. At least his film counterpart stays.
Blackheart
Professor Gigachad
Cut Dudley, damn that is unfortunate.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
@PS83147: You're welcome. And thank you for listening to others' feedback on your effort post.