During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Midori
Midori.
Okay, so... uh... the Command and Conquer series is way bigger than I thought, anyone want to help? I’ll cleanup the Red Alert series because I am positive that the Red Alert 2 Soviet Campaign has a Yuri who does enough to be considered distinct from the canon one in the Allied Campaign and Yuri’s Revenge.
But the rest of the series... I’m scared guys. Real scared. At a glance, I think there might be one keeper in the form of a rogue AI, maybe some random Nod general, and I think Generals could have a keeper, but... that’s a lot of work.
Edit: As suspected, Soviet Campaign!Yuri is distinct enough to earn his own EP. I will submit it tomorrow.
Edited by Vyn on Oct 22nd 2021 at 8:13:54 AM
He never sleeps. He says he will never die.
Siren Head, Slenderman, Rafael, and Midori
Edited by Mediawatcher on Oct 22nd 2021 at 4:50:15 AM
Gonna trust Star, flip to a yay on SH and yes to Slendy, evil Lifetime man and Midori.
Showtime!
to slendy and rafael
Skipping the YTTD ep because i keep meaning to play that and don't want spoilers
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Well, great, I was waiting for the full game to come out to play it. Now I know who one of the killers is.
Midori anyway.
I’m here, I guess.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Whoops, sorry. On the bright side it's not really a "catch the killer" kind of game like Danganronpa. I was moreso referring to the Dwindling Party aspect.
Slenderman and Rafael.
Edited by GenericGuy2000 on Oct 22nd 2021 at 9:14:03 AM
I’m gonna put some Gloom in your eye.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
It’s alright, you had no way of knowing.
to Midori
The Moron
Hey guys, bad news - Vyn’s a ban evader too
Burn their writeups, tired of letting these people think they can post again with enough persistence.
RIP Toriyama
Was worried about this, reported 'em for it yet was told there was no issues a couple days ago...guess issues were found since ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
I'll happily look into and verify SPACE Tim Curry if no one minds.
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
to Slenderman and Sou Hiyori/Midori.
Edited by DrUnknown on Oct 22nd 2021 at 6:46:49 AM
for Midori.
I think I've found a promising example in another Italian work, so let's talk about
The Work
La città vuota (named after Mina's song, for those who have watched Luca) is a 2019 Italian mystery novel taking place in the city of Modena during a particularly torrid late July. It's not particularly violent but makes up for it with some dark irony.
Giada, a young woman close to her master's degree, is found dead in a park lake almost exactly five years after Federico, one of her high school classmates, drowned during a post-graduation vacation under circumstances that were never completely explained. One of the main suspects for both deaths is another classmate, Alessandro, who seems to be everything wrong about the Big Man on Campus stereotype. Could it be that someone is trying to silence those who witnessed Federico's death? Is it a revenge plot? Or maybe something linked to the fact that Giada used to moonlight as an escort while studying at university? As it turns out...
The Candidates and What They Have Done
... Federico's death (despite Alessandro's contribution to it) is a Red Herring because it's only accidentally linked to the actions of the Big Bad couple: Riccardo Rovatti and his wife Caterina, Alessandro's parents.
To the public eye, they are a wealthy and influent but still affable couple doing their best with their "spirited" son. In particular, Riccardo stands out as a Honest Corporate Executive dealing with building materials. The truth is radically different: through Riccardo's company and the complicity of a Corrupt Politician, they have embezzled huge amounts of money while delivering low quality materials, which is endangering something around 50 different projects, some of which are apartment complexes.
Following a serious earthquake in 2012 (which is Truth in Television), they started worrying for potential investigations and became more cautious, but Alessandro managed to catch that something was wrong. To his luck, Giada (whom he had helped to find clients for her stint as a call girl) was a favorite of the aforementioned politicians and, with time, they managed to dig into his dirty affairs, confirming the links between him, the faulty works and his parents.
Since his parents has barred him from accessing his trust fund as a punishment for his role in Federico's death (which they helped covering by paying enough to sway the inquiry), Alessandro teams with Giada, sending her to blackmail his parents. And of course she has the great idea of doing it without any witness, in the Rovattis' house to boot. As a result, Riccardo knocks her out while Caterina watches indifferently. Then they call Moataz Al Kubar, a Libyan-born crook who has already done some dirty works for them, and lure Alessandro so that he can see Giada being shot by said crook, just to remind him who he should be loyal to.
Alessandro decides to flee, but not before gathering evidence that the police will get once he's gotten away. He records a conversation with his father, who is trying to fix the fact that Giada's corpse has been found too early than expected, and then uploads it into a crypted USB key along with documents that prove the embezzlement, and leaves it to his (former) friend Ander. However, since his parents already suspect that he's planning something, they send Moataz to kill him. Alessandro is gunned down and Ander is wounded non-fatally.
To eliminate everyone in Modena who knew about the escort affair, the two later send Moataz to kill Daniele, Alessandro's lackey, but the goon dies while trying to escape the police while Daniele barely survives. During all this, the couple pretend to be grieving for their son's death.
In the end, the USB is unlocked by Ander and his friends, giving the police enough evidence to arrest the couple. To avoid a Screw the Rules, I Have Money! scenario, Giada's father makes sure to sneak a gun into the court and shoot both of them during the trial, to no one's sorrow.
Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse
While they act together as a couple, they don't show a particular form of marital love, so I don't think this counts as a mitigating factor. While this could be due to being Out of Focus for most of the time before The Reveal, they seem to be married just because it's convenient. Heck, even Macbeth is brought up as an example of a more functional couple.
Even their help in letting Alessandro get away with the Deadly Prank to Federico was done only to keep a pristine image, since they don't show any love to their son, which it's implied to be the cause behind his volatile and narcissistic personality. Oh, and they don't worry too much about having him killed.
Heinousness Standard
If anything, Caterina is less proactive, since she doesn't attack Giada like Riccardo does and technically it's her husband who orchestrated the embezzlement, but she's clearly going along with the plan without any trace of remorse. They clearly outclass Alessandro and Giada by several orders of magnitude.
My only doubt is that they are difficult to tell apart, as they aren't the focus of the story for most of the time. They seem to be two parts of one single being.
Final Verdict
Not the double-digit serial killer you could find in a mystery novel, but still horrible people. I'd say they are both keepers.
Edited by Cring1 on Oct 22nd 2021 at 6:57:08 AM
Professor Gigachad
Another ban evader that is two in one day, anyway I cut their entries.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Oct 22nd 2021 at 11:27:33 AM
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Well that's some shit, only did two. Is anyone familiar with Command & Conquer here?
Riccardo & Catarina
Edited by nwotyzal on Oct 22nd 2021 at 7:18:01 AM
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Proyecto Cabra is a horror youtuber that narrates many stories, including ones set on its own verse and featuring recurring characters like Douglas, god of the afterlife or the current candidate Till.
Now, this guy is someone I backed off due to agency rules, but now that we are more lenient, I want to debate him. Please don't get angry if he doesn't count, I just want to put a nail to my doubt.
The world is created by a writer deity known as The Creator, who created countless beings to fulfill roles in the creation, one of his mistakes...
Who is Till?
A being created by The Creator using the screams and fears of dying humans in a attempt to create a God of Fear. Till proved to be too dangerous, so he was sealed in the world of nightmares, where he stayed until he was accidentally freed for a oneironaut named Brian in the story of Dreaming Moon
Meeting the creature that took a rabbit-like form due to perceiving itself as a caged rabbit, the creature spoke to Brian, who initially tried to joke his way out before being terrified by the entity.
In his talk, the creature asks Brian to give him a name as a gift, Brian wants to say "Tio" ("Dude" is Spanish), but its so afraid that he ends up saying "Ti-ll", which is the name that the nightmare god uses.
"Till...I like it. Now, die"
Brian runs while Till slowly devours his legs—killing Brian's mortal body—with Brian's soul being saved for the Guardian.
Later, Brian's soul escapes alongside his specter friend (who would eventually be named Stephen btw) to return to the mortal world and reunite with his girlfriend, Till receives Brian and his friend and hunts them, catching the friend and devouring him in front of Brian, who fights Till in a fit of rage...and dies.
Till meets the Guardian and they confront each other, with the Guardian revealing his real power, being able to stall Till until the Creator appeared. Till is afraid and escapes to the mortal world to sow terror and fear, wanting to get "real fear, unlike your dreamworld".
Now, we leave Dreaming Moon to go to Till's first appeareance in other story, where Till tortures Douglas via Mind Rape by showing him the worst horrors of humanity, all of this due to his desire to inflict fear on a creature unable to feel it.
Across the space-time, Till tortures and monsters countless people, with only three survivors of the encounters of him, who were left alive to tell the story.
But in the meantime...A powerful onironaut entered the dreamworld, searching for her boyfriend, she was named Luna and she was Brian's boyfriend. Till was fascinated at her and decided to hunt Brian to drive her to the Despair Event Horizon.
This lead to Luna turning into a Eldrich Abomination that was more powerful that the creator himself who proceeds to devour Till, who tried to ally with the creature to turn the world into a living nightmare. Luna, now turned into a monster, simply devours Till and takes the Big Bad role.
Anti Climatic, it isn't?
Heinous standard?
Easy pass, Till murders countless of humans in the most horrible ways and attempts to turn the world into a Nightmare. He tortures a being unable to feel fear in such a horrid and graphic way to force him to do so.
Mitigant traits?
Now this is the iffy thing, Till was a being created from the fear of humans, so he obviously is Made of Evil, it isn't?
..The thing is that the verse is full of Dark Is Not Evil creatures, who sure, definitely count as Good Is Not Nice guys like Douglas or Ingrid, who is made of the feeling of fear and is basically the concept of Hell personified.
Heck, the God of Oblivion is actually a feeble old janitor. So being made of something scary doesn't necessarily means you will be a complete bastard.
And even with that, other evil deities like Insanity are Affably Evil. Its a curious thing. The other "evil sealed deities for personifying a negative concept" are bad guys too...but they're bad in a very different way.
Hate is a Hateful Monster that feels hatred towards everything. Insanity is Insane.
Till is made of fear and yet he enjoys causing fear.
Verdict?
You decide
Some drawings made for the writer himself. Just in case he gets aproved.
Edited by KazuyaProta on Oct 22nd 2021 at 10:06:19 AM
Watch me destroying my country
Professor Gigachad
The Rovatii's and Till and his image.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Oct 22nd 2021 at 8:35:19 AM
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
to Riccardo Rovatti, Caterina Rovatii, and Till.
I’m here, I guess.
Midori.
The Rovattis.
Till.
I'm gonna be on the road tomorrow, so I might be able to comment or engage much for most of the day (I'll also be seeing Halloween Kills. So I might as well get them out of the way.
First off, since I'm gonna be seeing the new movie anyways, I figure I'd do a quick rewrite to an Fan Works entry for Dave McRae's Fan Sequel concept. Nothing much just an annoying grammer error I noticed: "In this story, serving as a followup to the film, Michael Myers is shown to have survived the burning of the Strode House and is further enraged by violent defeat."
Anyways, here's the rewrite.
- Halloween (2018) sequel concept video The Shape, by Dave McRae: In this story, serving as a followup to the film, Michael Myers is shown to have survived the burning of the Strode House and is further enraged by his violent defeat. After the fire was put out, Michael kills Sheriff Barker and proceeds to massacre the police, paramedics and news crew on the scene, as well as desecrating Ray Nelson's body. It's revealed Michael also wiped out a police station and news station, with said massacre being broadcasted. Continuing his rampage, Michael proceeds to break into different homes, and kills more of Haddonfield's residents, including Lonnie and Cameron Elam. Laurie Strode and her allies follow Michael's trail of destruction to a house where Michael kills a family, with the only survivor being a girl named Sandy, and an attempt to lure Michael into another trap results in Leigh Bracket's death. When Laurie and Michael fight in the Myers house, Laurie ends up sacrificing herself to kill Michael once and for all, since there was no way to finish him off without them both burning to death.
As for Siren Head's entry.
- Slender Man vs Siren Head:
- Siren Head is portrayed as a malicious, predatory entity, out to kill anyone and anything around him for both fun and out of annoyance. Forming a fixation on a cadet named Trevor, Siren Head messed with him for days, playing haunting recordings only he could hear, while everyone on his base thinks he's going crazy. When Trevor goes to confront it, Siren Head nearly deafens him with recordings of past it's victims, including children and animals. It then proceeded to go on a rampage, burning massacring Trevor's military base, killing all the personal and leaving Trevor to deal with the fallout. Eventually coming across Trevor again, the Siren Head turns it's attention on Slenderman out for being in it's territory, brutally killing Slenderman's brainwashed slaves for annoying it, and using Trevor as a living club in their fight, before callously killing him. When overpowered, Siren Head pins the Slenderman down so that they'd both die in the burning forest. After it's supposed destruction, it's implied at the end Siren Head may have survived and is now pursuing the only survivor, Sophia.
Edited by Beast on Oct 22nd 2021 at 8:21:49 AM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Wait, wait wait wait. I'm drawing issue from something with this Myers:
Alright...a year or two ago I very passionately lobbied against a villain from an unmade E.T. sequel going up because the EP was based on a script treatment. Not a script: the outline of a script. The basis; the unfinished work of an unfinished work.
On the MB thread I lobbied against an alternate version of John Constantine from counting on the basis that the work of origin was exactly like this; nothing but an unfinished smattering ideas. An outline with no medium actually attached to it.
Why is this version of Myers up? This is not a realized work. This isn't even the realized prototype of a work. This is a guy going on about unrealized concepts for works that, as far as I'm aware of, don't exist beyond the YouTube video.
Did I miss the EP for this? Is there something I'm missing? Because we don't trope unfinished mediums. Even The Day the Clown Cried has a script we can view; even all the What Could Have Been candidates we have are attached to actual, hundred-page scripts. This is not that.
I did find the original EP, and I'm sorry:
We never have or ever will trope "blueprints" for fictional works. A script to an unfinished movie is an actual work of written fiction that can serve as the basis for a larger movie but still functions as an independent work of fiction even unrealized. This isn't even that. This isn't a work of fiction: this is a "potential" work of fiction.
I'm vouching we cut this version of Michael Myers.
Edited by Scraggle on Oct 22nd 2021 at 9:57:12 AM
Professor Gigachad
I have just discovered a rather odd candidate so I guess I will give him a try.
What is the Work
Pitfall: The Lost Expedition is the last Pitfall game that was ever made, it follows the titular protagonist crashing on some island where he once again goes adventuring.
Who is Pusca and What Has He Done?
In the past, Pusca was the High Priest of El Dorado. When the French were about to invade and destroy El Dorado Pusca was planning on betraying the king and advised him to surrender to the french. The King instead sent his daughter to the future so she could help El Dorado (it's rather confusing, sorry).
Pusca was banished for his treason and spent 500 years absorbing the energy of travellers to stay young. He was waiting for the prophesized outsider to collect the artifacts the Artefacts placed in the temples to charge, so he could return to the past.
More recently an adventurer named Kevin McCallister showed up and Pusca thought he was the prophesized one. However, when Pusca found out he wasn't he drained the energy from him, killing him.
In the present, Pusca meats a man named St. Claire who he again thinks is the one from the prophecy. They work together to try and retrieve the artifacts but are beaten by Pitfall Harry. St. Claire is able to get the artifacts from Harry though and Pusca demands to have them and when St. Claire refuses Pusca kills him.
Pusca throughout all of these had been lying to Kevin's daughter Nicole about wanting to help bring back her father which he uses to steal the artifacts back from Harry. Pusca then kills Nicole when she is no longer of use to him and begins his final plan to make sure the french destroy El Dorado, though he is luckily stopped.
Does he have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Nothing. He does pretend to be nice but it is pretty clear that is nothing more than an act. He was banished by the king but that was because he betrayed him and he also takes his revenge way too far.
Does he meet the Heinousness Standard?
Heinousness is slightly sketchier but I do think he makes it. He is given an onscreen death count of three (Kevin, St. Claire and Nicole) and these murders, especially Kevin's, establish a pattern with the fact it is blatantly stated he has been absorbing tons of people for centuries in order to stay young, we don't get an exact number but we do know for sure it is really high.
The biggest crime for him though is that he was actively trying to stop the heroes from saving El Dorado from the French with it being mentioned everyone was killed in it all for the sake of revenge, in the past he was also the one who tried to sell El Dorado out to the French. Basically, he wants to get his home completely destroyed all out of revenge and he knows full well it is what he is doing.
This game is also a Continuity Reboot and he is the worst in it with nobody else even coming close.
Final Verdict?
I am thinking he is a yes.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
As for how much it covers in comparison to these unfinished scripts you covered, within the actual video, the writer at least tells the whole story that he came up with, full of dialogue, plot points, named characters and interactions, etc. I don't know how else to describe it other than it goes along the same kind of narrative descriptions they do on Fanscription. The point is, within the video it's not just concepts he came up with, but the guy just reading off a fic he wrote.
That said, looking back, a newfound that sort of dawned on me issue is that all it is is narration with the guy on camera reading off his story in a dramatic and enthusiastic fashion (the guys a voice actor), but much like Fanscription or other story readings on Youtube, I considered it a null issue. The links in the entry if anyone wants to check the video out.
Edit: Further reading Scrags comment, I doubt there's much I can further argue. I guess I'm fine with a cut.
Edited by Beast on Oct 22nd 2021 at 9:00:23 AM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]")
Midori.
Watch me destroying my country