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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

G-Editor Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#284302: Oct 19th 2021 at 12:42:46 PM

[tup] Stan, Supreme Deity (was waiting for her), and Saruman, the three Ss.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#284303: Oct 19th 2021 at 12:51:19 PM

[tup] Stan.

[tup] Supreme Deity.

[tup] Saruman.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
therealjackieboy Ultimate Moral Compass from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Ultimate Moral Compass
#284304: Oct 19th 2021 at 12:59:28 PM

[tup] Stan, Supreme, and Saruman

"No running in the halls!"
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#284305: Oct 19th 2021 at 1:01:57 PM

[tup] Carnage, the Supreme Deity, Stan Springs and Saruman. Tentative [tup] to the husband.

JG98 Since: Feb, 2014
#284306: Oct 19th 2021 at 1:15:16 PM

Alright, I have a new potential candidate at the ready. Once again, we're going back to Pathfinder. More exactly, we're looking at the one-shot adventure Night Of The Grey Death, which takes place in the turbulent country of Galt... and, incidentally, features a huge amount of references to the works of Edgar Allan Poe

MAJOR SPOILERS FOR THE ADVENTURE!!!

...

...

...

Still with me? My apologies, I just wanted prospective players not to read what goes on in that adventure, since it does greatly shake up the status quo. Whether the PCs win or lose.

As I said, this adventure takes place in Galt, a country that used to be a vassal to Cheliax, until they decided to throw off their tyrannical rulers and become a free country once again.

Unfortunately, things didn't go quite as well as they did in Kintargo...

In fact, after the Cheliax rulers and sympathizers were kicked out of Galt, the country began going through a seemingly endless cycle of revolutions, reigns of terror and executions, each government being bloodily overthrown by a new batch of revolutionaries.

The only constant in this vicious cycle has been the presence of a mysterious group of state police and executioners, the Gray Gardeners. Above the law, their identities only known within the organization, and they are known and feared throughout Galt for their ruthlessness and for their use of the Final Blades, powerfully enchanted guillotines that capture their victims' souls in order to prevent resurrection.

This mess has been going on for more than 50 years now, with nobody being wise to the horrible truth behind the chaos.

And at the root of it? There is this thing here.

The Conqueror Worm.

Who is the Conqueror Worm? What has it done?

The Conqueror Worm is an alien monstrosity of near-godlike power who landed on Golarion about 50 years before the events of the adventure, looking for a country to rule, despoil and destroy. It's not known if it took advantage of an already existing revolution against Cheliax, or if it masterminded that too, but it is a moot point now.

In any event, the Conqueror Worm used its immense psychic powers to enslave key figures in both the Galtian government and the revolutionaries, and used them to found the Gray Gardeners, in order to keep a tighter control over the country and pick select victims to send to the Final Blades, under the guise of eliminating Cheliax sympathizers, but really trapping as many souls as it could in the unholy guillotines. The souls remain in the blade, in perpetual agony, to fuel the Conqueror Worm's endgame.

Bored with ruling Galt from the shadows, the Conqueror Worm moves to the final phase of its plan. It has the Gray Gardener leaders in Litran organize a masquerade ball whose centerpiece is Silent Lenore, one of the most notorious Final Blades. As midnight strikes, Silent Lenore will be activated and release all the souls trapped inside of it. And in the span of 50 years, an awful lot of souls were captured - during this time, they were compressed into a Grey Death, an Undead Abomination of staggering might. When Silent Lenore is activated, the Grey Death will be released and go on a rampage on the partygoers and the entire town, slaughtering them all.

The worst part? All the Final Blades are psychically connected, so when Silent Lenore unleashes its Grey Death... so will the others scattered around Galt, which will lead to an apocalyptic loss of life.

The heroes manage to infiltrate the ball and destroy the Grey Death before the irreparable happens, but the Conqueror Worm quickly switched to Plan B: it will perform the ritual to unleash all the Grey Deaths by itself. Enlisting the aid of its mad cultists and a group of powerful undead and sahkil, it retreats in its lair and starts the ritual, which kicks off a Timed Mission to reach the Conqueror Worm and destroy it before the Grey Deaths are freed.

When the heroes reach its lair, the Conqueror Worm has already gathered enough power to activate one of the Final Blades in the town of Halvon... which it gleefully does, causing the deaths of literally thousands of people in the time it takes to snap your fingers. It then makes an offer to the heroes, saying it will spare them and a single town in Galt if they leave now, but actually having no intention of keeping its promise. The heroes will need to face the Conqueror Worm in battle and put it to the sword in order to save the country...

If they lose, Galt is doomed. The Conqueror Worm completes the ritual and unleashes the Grey Deaths on the country, leading to an incalculable number of deaths.

Even if they win, they might not be out of the woods yet. You see, for a thing without sleeves, the Conqueror Worm has one final ace upon them. Upon its body's death, it can send its soul into a creature whose mind it has infected, possessing that creature and using it as a living incubator to resurrect itself. The heroes might have to kill an innocent whose only fault was to have been selected by the Worm as its new vessel, or one of them might have to perform an Heroic Sacrifice to stop the Worm from being reborn.

Anyway, the death of the Conqueror Worm saves the entire nation, and spells disaster for the Gray Gardeners, which are reduced to a bunch of scattered diehards while the nation begins to heal.

Any mitigating factors?

Nada. The Conqueror Worm is only motivated by its lust for power and destruction, and by its own sadism. It has controlled the ebbs and flows of revolution in Galt for more than 50 years now, enthusiastically plotting huge losses of life to amuse himself and power up its Final Blades, and now that it's gotten bored, it wants to break its toy so that no one else will ever play with it again.

Unless stopped, the Conqueror Worm will activate the Final Blades and turn Galt into a mountain of corpses. Then, it will turn its attention to another country, possibly Taldor, in order to amuse itself some more by causing even more senseless death and destruction.

Yes, that's its motivation for causing all this mess. For the sheer fun of it.

Heinousness factor?

Well, Pathfinder is certainly no stranger to atrocities, but the sheer scale of what the Conqueror Worm is trying to do, not to mention its shocking lack of motivation for it beyond its own personal amusement and petty spite... both these things make me think that yeah, the Conqueror Worm more than satisfies that threshold. It's not stated whether or not it has moral agency, but since it's not an evil outsider, signs point to yes.

Conclusion?

A definite keeper if you ask me.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#284307: Oct 19th 2021 at 1:17:10 PM

That's a keeper. Reminds me I've gotta do the villain of the Abomination Vault

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#284308: Oct 19th 2021 at 1:21:48 PM

[tup]Conqueror worm.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
SumDumNerd Current mood: sick of your shit from the Ever After Since: May, 2017 Relationship Status: Every rose has its thorn
Current mood: sick of your shit
#284309: Oct 19th 2021 at 1:22:09 PM

[tup] Saruman

Though, just a heads up, I had Seven Deadly Sins reserved.

Edited by SumDumNerd on Oct 19th 2021 at 2:24:30 AM

Read "Ghost Stories of Remnant" here.
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#284310: Oct 19th 2021 at 1:23:46 PM

[tup] Stan

[tup] The Goddess EDIT: Waiting on the issue to be solved

[tup] Worm-kun. Nice to see ''Attack on Titan'' got another keeper

Edited by KazuyaProta on Oct 19th 2021 at 3:43:23 AM

Watch me destroying my country
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#284311: Oct 19th 2021 at 1:24:47 PM

From the Dates page...

This is absolutely accurate: "The Seven Deadly Sins The Movie: Cursed by Light: Summer 2021 (Sum Dum Nerd)". And the film came out on Netflix October 1. Yeah, this was absolutely Sum's to do.

Edited by Lightysnake on Oct 19th 2021 at 1:25:26 AM

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#284312: Oct 19th 2021 at 1:25:29 PM

Yes to Stan; Saruman.

For the Worm...I don't know Pathfinder too well, but how bad is it, as its actions seem confined to merely a single country.

Edited by ACW on Oct 19th 2021 at 4:26:48 AM

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#284313: Oct 19th 2021 at 1:30:25 PM

[tup] to Sogliola Lopez, Michelo Chariot, Dormmamu, Carnage, Supream Deity, Stan Springs, Saruman and the Conqueror Worm.

G-Editor Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#284314: Oct 19th 2021 at 1:35:30 PM

[tup] to the Worm

Oh shit. I just saw it on the plane and I thought that I would be okay to discuss since it has long been past summer and October 1st but no one discussed it and I couldn’t see it on the top, but now I Can see it was all the way in the middle-bottom of the anime section that I couldn’t see it while the movie was under a different section Animation also in the bottom even though summer ended. I’m terribly sorry sum, I never meant to take your reservations on purpose sad.

Edited by G-Editor on Oct 18th 2021 at 10:47:56 PM

JG98 Since: Feb, 2014
#284315: Oct 19th 2021 at 1:38:36 PM

[up][up][up] The Conqueror Worm has been sadistically toying with the lives of every single creature in Galt for more than 50 years, sending whoever it wanted to the Final Blades (which is a Fate Worse than Death in and of itself). Its endgame is the total destruction of the country and the complete extermination of all lifeforms living in it.

And then it will go to another country and repeat the process.

So yeah, I'd say plenty heinous.

Edited by JG98 on Oct 19th 2021 at 1:38:50 AM

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#284316: Oct 19th 2021 at 1:39:35 PM

Not feeling the husband, yes to Stan, Saruman and the Worm. Waiting on Nerd to vote on the Supreme Deity.

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#284317: Oct 19th 2021 at 1:45:19 PM

Ah, so it DOES plan on moving beyond just one country. Sure to him then. I just wanted to make sure he wasn't solely sticking to one country when the other keepers had worldwide ambitions.

Edited by ACW on Oct 19th 2021 at 4:45:56 AM

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
#284318: Oct 19th 2021 at 1:47:33 PM

[tup] to Michelo Chariot, the Malcolm/Peter Pan/Pied Piper rewrite, Dormammu, Carnage, the Supreme Deity, Stan Springs, Saruman the White, and the Conqueror Worm.

Leaning [tdown] on the unnamed husband. If his crimes are common in animal bride stories, it doesn't sound like he passes the general heinousness standard of the genre.

@ASghhrv6ub: The Sauron entry looks good. Morgoth looks good too, but I'd change the last sentence's "both have them" to "Morgoth has them". Thank you for splitting up the entries.

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#284319: Oct 19th 2021 at 1:47:52 PM

Regarding the Worm: I feel this is a case of having a specific niche. Maybe not Total deathtoll, but the sheer cruelty of its modus operandi is enough to cross the high Heinous Standard.

Plus, resources, the worm is a Alien instead of a Dimensional Deity.

Edited by KazuyaProta on Oct 19th 2021 at 3:49:01 AM

Watch me destroying my country
nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
Bullman "The Juice is Loose." Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
"The Juice is Loose."
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#284322: Oct 19th 2021 at 2:08:07 PM

Is anyone reserveing the new The Flash (2014) crossover in November. Its main villain is none other than Despero.

If not id like it.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
YobabyColin Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Snoketrope Barb / Temporary Kylo from California Since: Oct, 2020 Relationship Status: Waiting for Prince Charming
Barb / Temporary Kylo
#284324: Oct 19th 2021 at 2:19:50 PM

Yes to the Conquer

The First man
ASghhrv6ub Best Smile from Second star to the right. Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Best Smile
#284325: Oct 19th 2021 at 2:24:15 PM

[tup]Carnage, The Husband, Saruman, Stan, Conqueror Worm.

Abstain on the Supreme Deity.

@Unknown: Oh, you are right, since I was going to change only a few things I copied the original entries and I forgot of changig it when editing them.

This is like they would see in a tree

  • The Silmarillion fanfic Morgoth's Vile Legacy:
    • Morgoth Bauglir, formerly known as Melkor, is a Vala who wanted to take over all of Middle-earth; to this end, he captures two elves, Midriel and Fingol, to corrupt them and create an army of servants. Morgoth first tortures both elves when they speak out and leaves Sauron to continue torturing them. Out of amusement, Morgoth eventually releases them both to an Elven camp, where his forces track them down, slaughter everyone in the camp, and recapture the two elves. Afterwards, Morgoth have them breed to create an army of Orcs.
    • Sauron is Morgoth's right-hand, who is left by Morgoth to take control of the torture of the elves, a work that he follows with great pleasure by repetidely whipping them until their clothes and skin where nothing but tatters, starving them, dislocating their bones and even threathening them with with rape just to mentally torment them further. Even after Morgoth's defeat, Sauron has them breed again to create the Uruk-Hai to add to his growing army.

Edited by ASghhrv6ub on Oct 19th 2021 at 4:25:45 AM

I am the one, I am the one, the godlike terror train, superior artificial brain, feel free to call me Blaine

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