Old Magnificent Bastard thread
Welcome to the Magnificent Bastard proposal thread! This is the thread where new Magnificent Bastard examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential mitigating features will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the MB subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite MB" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from other parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for MB equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, their goals and methodology, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some characters, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
How are they Magnificent?
This is the point where you highlight the character's brilliance. How to they convey their intelligence and charm to the audience? What makes them stand out among the crowd? What are their goals and how do they go about accomplishing them? This part welcomes a lot of creative thinking — not everyone has to be a Machiavellian Diabolical Mastermind to be worth considering here! This is also the time to showcase how the character can think on their feet if it's necessary.
How are they a Bastard? How are they not too bad?
What kinds of moral lines is this character willing to cross for the sake of their goal? Are they willing to let innocents die? Start wars? Commit crimes? The character has to show some kind of unscrupulousness in order to count as a "Bastard". Notably, this character does not necessarily have to be the villain, and an Anti-Hero can cross the line if they're immoral enough, but they have to be immoral somehow.
This is also the section where you then state your case for why they're not too bad. Perhaps their good intentions help mitigate their crimes. Perhaps others are shown to be much worse than them. Perhaps they're prone to Pet the Dog moments or are even fighting on behalf of loved ones. Whatever the case, there are certain lines that an MB can't cross, but as long as their villainy is reasonable for their goal, they can be considered.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:40:56 AM
Ninja Gamer Writer
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Edelgard.
After looking him over, I felt like bringing him up.
What's the Work?
Samurai 7 is a steampunk anime adaptation of Seven Samurai. When a group of farmers are threatened by a group of bandits known as the Nobuseri, they decide to hire some samurai for protection.
Who is Kyuzo? What Does He Do?
Kyuzo is Ayamaro's bodyguard alongside a fellow samurai by the name of Hyogo. When a group of farmers arrive in the city looking for samurai with one supposedly killing a messenger resulting in all Samurai becoming wanted criminals, Kyuzo and Hyogo are sent to deal with them.
Kyuzo arrives on the scene and challenges Kanbei, the leader for the samurai to a duel. The fight proves intense with Kanbei even expressing admiration to Kyuzo's prowess. In the end, Kanbei admits defeat, but he also states that he isn't allowed to die until he has fulfilled his duty to the farmers, promising Kyuzo a rematch in the future.
Rather than kill Kanbei right there, Kyuzo takes off to continue working for Ayamaro's group for the time being. When Hyogo starts using guns though, Kyuzo decides enough is enough and joins the Samurai, telling Hyogo he "wanted to live" as he reason for switching sides. With this, Kyuzo becomes the sixth samurai of the party.
From there, Kyuzo would frequently scout ahead for any pending danger and he even protects Kirara in spite of how much she distrusts him for his past actions against the group. Even when his actions result in his right arm getting fractured, his response is that he can still fight capably with his left arm.
Eventually, when Ukyo arrives at the village the remaining Samurai (as Gorobei had already died beforehand) engage in battle, splitting into two groups with group Kyuzo's in facing Tessai. The fight proves intense, but they manage to emerge victorious. However, one mook was still alive and made an attempt on Kanbei, prompting Katsushiro to grab a gun to shoot the enemy down, accidentally killing Kyuzo in the process.
In his last moments, Kyuzo promises Kanbei that they will have their fight in the next life.
Is He Magnificent?
Kanbei certainly thinks so. From their very first fight, Kanbei couldn't help but admire Kyuzo's skills and power to the point that even though Kyuzo was with the enemy, he wanted him on their side.
Likewise, Kyuzo developed respect for Kanbei and equally saw him as a Worthy Opponent to the point that he eventually decided to join him in order to get his desired fight to the death with him. He even takes his role as one of the seven very seriously as he takes on solo missions to ensure the team is safe.
He also comes off as a lot more graceful in his swordsmanship than the other samurai, taking down Nobuseri like they are nothing.
Sure, he gets killed rather unceremoniously by Katsushiro, but to be fair, that was moment that caught everybody off guard as Katsushiro was gunning down somebody who was trying to kill Kanbei. Not even Kyuzo or Kanbei could have anticipated that. Kyuzo just happened to be behind the guy at the worst possible time. He doesn't even show any contempt against Katsushiro for this in his last moments, instead promising Kanbei that they would have their fight in the afterlife.
Is He A Bastard?
I mean he did initially start out working for Ukyo's side and tried to kill Kanbei. Not just that, but his reason for joining the samurai wasn't out of a change of heart or any sense of actual selflessness. He switched sides, because he wanted to be the one to defeat Kanbei in a fight to the death.
Verdict
to this silent but deadly mercenary.
Edited by Zerukin on Dec 15th 2023 at 12:03:29 PM
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
To Kurt and Kyuzo
Lies and Violence!
Schleicher and Kyuzo, abstain on Edelgard.
What's the work?
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. is one of my personal favorite TV shows, starring a team of spies trying to protect the world from all sorts of sci-fi bullshit. The important members for this post?
- Phil Coulson, leader and all-around awesome dude who can never die.
- Daisy Johnson, an Inhuman with earthquake powers.
- Melinda May, the badass second-in-command played by the voice of Mulan.
- Fitz and Simmons, scientists whom the universe adamantly doesn't ship.
- Jeffrey Mace, the interim/puppet leader of SHIELD for Coulson during season 4.
- Mack, has a shotgun-axe. Doesn't do much else.
Season 4 of the show revolves around a racist terrorist organization known as the Watchdogs who want to wipe out all Inhumans. They're eventually joined—and later upstaged—by a scientist who has invented hyper-realistic robot duplicates of people known as Life Model Decoys, with the two groups collaborating to accomplish their respective goals. During this, May is kidnapped and replaced by an LMD, who—not realizing she's a fake until it's too late—is forced to help the Watchdogs before being captured by SHIELD.
Which brings us to what's universally considered one of the best episodes of the series: "Self Control". After a raid on the Watchdogs' base, the agents return to their own HQ... only for Fitz and Simmons to become worried. During the attack, each member of the team was alone for a suspiciously significant period of time. Almost enough time to, I don't know... switch out some of their members for fakes?
Who are the Life Model Decoys?
Four LMDs—Coulson, Mack, Mace and Fitz—are successfully swapped out for their real counterparts, secretly taking command of SHIELD with two primary directives: to eradicate all Inhumans and replace Jemma and Daisy. The real versions will be brought to the rest of their friends so that their minds can be uploaded into the Framework, a virtual reality without their greatest regrets. As for the Inhumans? Under the guise of protecting them from the Watchdogs, the LMDs contact them all and tell them that they're being transferred to the SHIELD base for safety. Daisy is assigned to personally meet with all of them—though in reality, she'll be swapped out, while an army of Daisy LMDs they've smuggled with them will be sent in her place to execute all the Inhumans on sight.
Coulson immediately has the LMD sensors that are installed in their base deactivated, allowing the four to sneak in without detection. Unfortunately for him, he didn't realize Jemma had things set up so that she'll get alerts whenever someone messes with the sensors, and she quickly learns the truth. Unfortunately for Jemma, she mistakenly believes Daisy to be the fourth LMD rather than Fitz—who very quickly adapts to this newfound complication, comforting Jemma over the apparent loss of their friends and proposing ideas on how to escape the LMDs. After helping her "trick" the others into thinking she's not onto them, the two move to an empty lab so they can begin working on a solution... only for more LMD sensors, installed by lab assistants without telling any of the core team, to suddenly alert Jemma that something's amiss.
What follows is a masterclass in acting by both the characters and the actors. Fitz immediately begins freaking out, shouting that Jemma's the fake and bringing up the excellent possibility that she could be like May—programmed to not realize she isn't real. Jemma forces Fitz at gunpoint to slit his own wrist, so they can see if there's any metal bits... but when she tries to hand an agonized, terrified Fitz a towel to clean himself up, he quickly whirls around and knocks her out.
He proceeds to drug her and begin making a copy of her brain to upload into a new LMD, promising her—even as she wakes up and vainly tries to crawl away—that she'll be reunited with the real Fitz, so they can actually take a fucking break to be happy with each other for once. Unfortunately for him, though Jemma's drugged the fuck out, she's still brilliant; once he goes over to restrain her feeble attempts to escape, she hits a chain holding up a heavy piece of machinery that he just so happens to be standing under, then moves to stab him to death. Fitz briefly screams in agony and despair, and when that fails to dissuade her, coldly tries to choke her out before finally deactivating.
While that's going on, Mack moves forward with the Inhuman plot. Unfortunately for him, Daisy decides to take a quick detour to inspect the planned living conditions for the Inhumans... and stumbles upon the army of inactive LMDs of herself. Quickly putting together what's up, she disguises herself as one of them when she hears Mack coming, messing up one of the fake's cloths so he'll be distracted thinking it's her. She beats a hasty escape, and Mack quickly cuts all the base's security feeds so she can't spy on them. Meanwhile, Coulson and Mace tell all the other agents that Jemma and Daisy are the fakes, instructing them to be brought in alive so they can "pull the data from their heads"—really just so they can scan them to make new LMDs.
Shenanigans happen from there: Jemma and Daisy gas the base to knock out the human personnel, while Mace turns out the lights since he can see better in the dark than us fleshy humans. Daisy manages to kill him, only to immediately be taken by surprise and shot by Mack and Coulson, who tell her to submit now lest she bleed out. She gets out one last earthquake blast to destroy Mack and crawl away, heading with Jemma to the base's hangar bay so they can steal a jet to escape, while Coulson sends a repaired Fitz to activate the Daisy army with "basic seek and destroy" programming.
While all of this has been going on throughout the episode, Coulson has woken up the May LMD they still have in storage, and has been trying to convince her to side with them—if the LMDs succeed, the real agents will have paradise in the Framework. By the end of the episode, he lets her out to help in the hunt for Daisy and Jemma, setting her up with a pile of explosives and a trigger near hangar bay. Once Daisy gets away, he heads down to the hangar where he assumes they've been detained May... only to see she's let them pass. May, after all, was programmed differently from the other four. She thought, for a time, that she really was May, and though the others may have memories of their real selves? Their programmed-ruthlessness, their lack of fear or pain... they're not their real selves. Not really. So they couldn't understand that May would genuinely want to help the heroes. With that, she sets off the explosives to kill all the LMDs, freeing Daisy and Jemma to go and rescue their friends.
Are they magnificent?
Ever since Secret Invasion, I've been hearing a lot of people praise AOS for being a far superior adaptation—in regards to the paranoia aspects, obviously without the Skrulls and all the superheroes and the Green Goblin and whatnot. And... I mean, they're not wrong. Once again, this episode is regarded as perhaps one of the best episodes of the show, second only to the hilarious-turned-tearjerker time loop shenanigans of "As I Have Always Been".
The LMDs are perfect antagonists to create a suspenseful story where you have no idea who you should trust, silently taking over with barely anyone the wiser, while ruthlessly hunting down the few who do figure out their deception. Coulson and Mace are the leaders who are constantly giving out orders and adapting to whatever complications arise with ease, Fitz puts on a horrifyingly beautiful performance to first isolate and then manipulate Jemma into doubting her own sanity, and Mack... okay, Mack's kind of just there like his real self, but he also gets in a few good ploys, such as preemptively taking out the cameras, selecting the most dangerous Inhumans they should target first, sneaking up on Daisy after the Mace fight, etc.
They play a massive role in why this episode is so amazing, and are ultimately only done in by the sentimental bits of Coulson's personality influencing his LMD into trusting May. I'd say they're good.
Are they bastards?
Killer androids that want to replace more people. No issue there. The real problem is that they're also planning mass murder of an alien minority group, which might be too bad, but, like I said a while ago, I'm approaching it like a Terminator situation: while the Watchdogs whom they're collaborating with are blatant neo-nazis, the LMDs are just robots following their programmed objectives with no bigotry held to their victims. The Inhumans are simply targets that they intend to take out with ruthless efficiency, and even then, they try to go out of their way to ensure Daisy—probably the most infamous Inhuman—is kept alive so that she can join their real counterparts in the paradise of the Framework.
Plus, we already have another villain up who is genocidal towards Inhumans: Lash, who felt an instinctual drive to murder all of his own kind (except Daisy for plot reasons). I think there's enough of a precedent of villains targeting them for non-bigoted reasons to smooth that issue over.
Not the Eye
to Kurt, Kyuzo and LFD
to Kurt, Kyuzo and LFD
What is the work?
The Life and Times of Juniper Lee, The series is about Juniper "June" Lee, an 11-year-old Chinese-American girl who lives in Orchid Bay City, who is the heir to the family title of "Te Xuan Ze". Granting her the ability to see monsters, demons, and other magical beings living invisibly among humans, as well as other abilities such as super-strength and agility, and has the responsibility of keeping the balance between the realms of humans and magic. She has the help of her kindly grandmother Jasmine the previous Te Xuan Ze, a snarky Scottish talking pug named Monroe, and her hyperactive younger brother Ray-Ray.Who is the candidate and what have they done?
Kai Yee from the episode Out of the Past. He was one of the previous Te Xuan Ze from 200 years ago and was considered to be the greatest Te Xuan Ze that ever existed, even more so than Junipers Grandmother. Before he turned against the Elders in his goal to take over the realm of magic, was turned into a statue when he failed until he was revived once more.How are they magnificent?
As a previous Te Xuan Ze he was a skilled warrior with superhuman and mystical powers who single handedly fought against many powerful monsters during darker times, preventing an all-out war between the worlds of humans of magic.In an effort to end the fighting permanently he asked for the power of an elder, but they rejected the suggestion believing a Te Xuan Ze should only use the power they were given. In response he nearly overthrew the elders of magic in order to gain their power but was stopped and turned into a statue as punishment.
Upon being revived by some greedy and arrogant demons that wanted to exploit his power for personal gain, he immediately fought against their guards that tried to subdue him and escaped with little to no resistance.
He shows some sympathy towards Juniper over the burden she carries as Te Xuan Ze and offers her the opportunity if he succeeds she can enjoy her childhood and not have to worry about saving the world anymore.
He nearly succeeded in his goal and it required both Juniper and Jasmine to team up defeat him again. Forcing Juniper to improvise her fighting in order to get an advantage over him and even then it wasn’t easy to turn him back to stone.
He is taken far more seriously than any of the other antagonists and possesses a much greater threat compared to the other more comedic villains of the week in the series.
How are they a Bastard? How are they not too bad?
He seeks to overthrow the Elders of Magic and gain their power which would allow him to control all magic and allow him to rule the universe, though he does have good intentions as he became Te Xuan Ze during a dark time where magic was at the verge of a war and he was the sole guardian protecting the balance. His reason for rebelling against them was because the Elders denied his request to become one of them so he decided to do it by force in order to end all the fighting permanently, making him a well-intentioned extremist.When confronted by Juniper and Jasmine in the Realm of Magic he fights nearly kills Jasmine and Juniper. However he doesn’t display any form of sadism or needless cruelty towards his enemies as he was more focused on escaping rather than killing the demons. Despite defeating Jasmine earlier in the episode, he doesn’t try to kill her or continue to harm her either due to pragmatism and having bigger priorities such as acquiring the magic of the elders or doesn’t see anything to gain from pointless cruelty. He does show an arrogant side by looking down on Jasmine and Juniper but not to the point of being smug or unlikable about it, as his skill does show that he can back up his claims and does take their fight seriously. Showing some degree of respect in their fight complimenting their tenacity.
He gave Juniper an opportunity to either accept what he was about to do and she can enjoy her childhood without worrying about fighting monsters anymore or even get her to join his side. It didn’t seem like he was lying to her and seemed like he was willing to keep his word if June accepted the deal.
Final Verdict?
I would have to go with a yes on Kai Yee.Edited by Phantom25 on Dec 15th 2023 at 4:14:46 AM
Yes to Kai Yee. Gonna have to echo Dood and J on Edelgard in Three Hopes. She's broken down more than Ghetsis from Pokémon Black and White and I fail to see how someone who is mentally unstable is a keeper except in special cases.
Edited by Klavice on Dec 15th 2023 at 3:44:51 AM
Lots going on here but yes to Kyozo. I meant to get to that one and great work from a great anime! Are you planning on doing Tessai as well? He acts subservient to Ukyo but he’s quite sharp underneath his, noble and very talented.
Edited by 43110 on Dec 15th 2023 at 7:12:24 AM
As someone who hasn't watched Samurai Seven, where is the cunning with Hyozo? I'm just seeing he's a cool swordsman, and most of the cunning (scouting ahead), happens after his HFT?
Schleicher.
Ninja Gamer Writer
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Even after his turn, it is still established that he is acting out of self interest and wanting to fight Kanbei to the death, so he is still very much a baddie even when he switches sides. He also manages to track down the heroes on his own before his turn until deciding he wants to be the one to kill Kanbei.
I don't know if I will write one for Tessai. You can if you want to.
Edited by Zerukin on Dec 15th 2023 at 5:14:53 AM
Alright Kyozo.
It would take me time to refresh. I think he's got a good chance from memory if you'd like another from that awesome series though!
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
As much as I really don’t want to, I’m gonna have to agree and say ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to Three Hopes!Edelgard; it’s frustrating because she’s one of those 99% MBs that ALMOST fit all the criteria, but has that one scene or aspect that decisively disqualifies them. Dignity is one of the most important criteria for this trope, and as the FAQ says, “a character may be charming when things go their way, but if they crumble under pressure or the narrative makes them a laughing stock, they simply fail to be magnificent”. We have cut or downvoted otherwise easy keepers for having undignified ends; I don’t see why she should be different even if it was out of her control.
Ninja Gamer Writer
After reading the downvotes, I'm changing my stance to on Edelgard.
LMDs and Kai Yee
Edited by WilyGryphon on Dec 15th 2023 at 10:19:10 AM
RIP Toriyama
I'll lean Yes on Edelgard myself, albeit only slightly. Yes to the LMDs, too.
Ok, tis the season and all, I got two versions of the same character to discuss, as will Scraggle, from a holiday classic.
What's the work?
A Christmas Carol is one of the most popular, influential stories of Christmas ever made, written by Charles Dickens and following the miserly, greedy Ebenezer Scrooge as he is visited by three spirits on Christmas Eve and confronted with his and those around him's past, present and future, all to steer Scrooge straight.
In the original story, the scariest spirit is, naturally, the Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come. While it is creepy af, it doesn't really go the extra mile we'd like for the "bastard" quality...but there's several adaptations of the story that do go far enough.
I'll be tackling two versions of the character in this effortpost, both hailing from Disney itself!
Who is the Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come? What has he done?
- Mickey's Christmas Carol is a 1983 adaptation of the tale, featuring Scrooge McDuck as Ebenezer, Mickey as Bob Cratchett, and so on.
- After Scrooge is visited by the goofier, friendlier Ghosts of Past and Present, he finds himself in a dark, ominous graveyard. The Ghost of Christmas Future, puffing on a cigar he constantly blows in Scrooge's face, appears before him and guides him to witness the sad scene of the Cratchett family standing over the grave of their youngest son, Tiny Tim, in part because of the greed of Scrooge's actions in Past and Present.
- As the Cratchetts sorrowfully depart, the Ghost further shows Scrooge a solitary grave being dug, the funeral attended by no one as the gravediggers laugh about how the person they are burying has no one who cares about him. A terrified Scrooge questions whose grave it is—the Ghost lights up his cigar once more, revealing the headstone to bear the name of Ebenezer Scrooge.
"Why, it's yours, Ebenezer! Richest man in the cemetery!"
- Knocking Scrooge into what will be his future grave, the Ghost laughs in delight as Scrooge scrambles to escape the fiery bottom of the grave seeking to drag him straight to the not-so-good-place as punishment for his life of greed. Scrooge please for his soul, screaming his remorse for his actions and swearing he will be a better man and will value Christmas...and with that, Scrooge finally awakens from sleep, safe in his bed, the whole thing having been a brutal "scare him straight" plot to teach Scrooge to be a kinder person in life.
- A Christmas Carol (2009), we have Jim Carrey playing Scrooge, the motion capture animated flick presenting a take that's dark even for this story.
- After contending with Ghosts of Past and Present, Scrooge notices the presence of the Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come, taking the form of Scrooge's shadow. Moving in creepy, elongated, unnatural ways along flat surfaces as a shadow, the Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come terrorizes Scrooge, chasing him down with a demonic, horse-drawn hearse (the same one that once ushered Scrooge's business partner Marley to his grave) and shrinking Scrooge down to tiny size.
- The Ghost shows the miniature Scrooge a variety of citizens celebrating the death of an unspoken individual, plundering the dead man's possessions and even the very clothes his corpse wears. The Ghost also sets Scrooge up to be attacked with a fire poker by a man alongside a feral rat.
- The Ghost forces Scrooge to bear witness to the broken Cratchett family, sobbing over the loss of their beloved child Tiny Tim. As Scrooge comes to realize this is his future, he pleads with the Ghost to tell him these things can be changed—the Ghost terrorizes Scrooge with the sight of his own future gravestone, slowly revealing the dates to imply this is the night Scrooge dies.
- Dropping Scrooge down into the grave, the Ghost stands above him with a leering, skeleton-grinning face as Scrooge please for mercy from this fate, and even as Scrooge promises he will be a better man and use his wealth to care for others, the Ghost finishes knocking Scrooge down into his grave as he screams...only to, as usual, wake up safely in bed, realizing he has been given a second chance by the Ghost to live a better life.
Is he magnificent?
Yesh, the Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come is always at the top of his game here in any adaptation. He's a menacing, terrifying figure, and he picks and chooses the perfect situations to showcase to Scrooge his potential future to mortify, sadden and scare him into valuing Christmas and be a better person.
Is he a bastard?
In the original story and several adaptations, the Ghost's actions are pretty tame, "just" showing Scrooge his potential future...but in these two takes? The Ghosts are showing outright glee in Scrooge's suffering and dragging out his terror, with the Mickey!Ghost laughing with giddiness as he proclaims Scrooge is the "richest man in the cemetery!", while the 2009!Ghost subjects Scrooge to demonic horse pursuits; shrinking to let him be nearly crushed by his surroundings; and making his time in the cemetery one of the most terrifying in any adaptation.
Even if Scrooge is a dick who needs to learn to be a better person, these two takes on the Ghost are very, very sinister in personality and how they carry out their "scared straight" plot, and I think both manage to push into true bastardy through this.
Final Verdict?
I'm say Yes to both takes here.
Edited by Ravok on Dec 15th 2023 at 8:01:04 AM
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Woagh
to the Ghosts of Christmas Yet To Come (who, i should mention, is played by Pete of all people in the Mickey version).
Hell yes there. Great seasonal!
Ghosts of Christmas Future
Yes to the Ghosts.
Speaking of the season, I'm currently reading Hogfather, the Discworld Christmas parody, and it's finally solidified Death himself as an MB to me. That's my next planned effort post, and I might get it in before Christmas.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Ninja Gamer Writer
to the future ghosts
Goku Black
Kai he (ill vouch for this one being an easy keep), ghosts of Christmqs to come, the lmds and kyozo
Rejected UAC Marine
Happy to Edelgard, and a on Future Ghost Pete and 2009's Ghost of Christmas Future
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
To Kai Yee and the ghosts
Edited by Siegfried1337 on Dec 15th 2023 at 11:58:26 AM
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