Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
The Draftsman of Doom
Hey guys. Been a while.
So, recently Archie Horror made a follow up to Pop's Chock'lit Shoppe of Horrors called Fresh Meat. I'll talk about what it means for our current keeper, Pop Tate.
Essentially, the premise for the overarching story is that The Devil, Lucifer, is trying to tempt Pop into cutting a deal with him since Jughead, Pops' number one customer, is now more interested in a rival restaurant, Segarini's pizzeria, which causes Pops' business to plummet as the teens in Riverdale more or less follow Jughead in regards to where to eat.
Initially, Pop seems to have a moral standard here, saying that he wont't resort to murdering his rival, Segarini, in order to get his business back when Lucifer suggests it. However, Lucifer eventually admits that Hell needs a new Head Chef, and he's looking for Pop to fill that role (seems to be a euphemism for torture, but it's kinda vague on that). Pop will be living comfortably even if he's sent to Hell due to his new position in the afterlife. So, Pop decides to make a deal with Lucifer. He drags Segarini to hell, and Pop will agree to become The Devil's head chef, causding Segarini to be dragged to hell and tortured for eternity.
So yeah. The one moral standard Pop Tate shows in the comic, he throws out the window by the end of the story. The two short stories within the comic don't have much bearing. One is a parody of Little Shop of Horrors where the only reason Pop saves Archie and Jughead from the alien plant is purely for pragmatic reasons as he himself admits (and he himself threatens Jughead and Archie to do an unknown "favor" by the end of it) and the other is takes place decades prior to the story, where he has the monstrous "out of towners" murder a bunch of people who Hiram Lodge hired to try and muscle Pop out of his property. Vicious, but it was understandable self-defense, so not worth adding to the entry.
I'm not sure if this comic is even meant to take place in the same timeline as the original Chock'lit Shoppe of Horror either way seeing as how Jughead is all but stated to have been killed by Pop in the first one, but maybe this is a prequel and Pop no longer needs Jughead's business? I dunno. Regardless, Pop Tate is still a keep. I'll likely be discussing another Archie Horror candidate in about a month though.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
How's this one of Miles Murdoch?
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Isn't that an Ace Attorney game though? Though that's a good one, maybe better than Rhea's.
EDIT: Oh, wait, it's crossovers. That may work. Though shouldn't it be indexed under FanWorks.Crossovers and Crossover.Fan Works?
EDIT: I did that.
If someone gives me a header for Ace Attorney fan works, I can start that page.
Edited by ACW on Apr 10th 2024 at 3:52:26 PM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Here's one:
Phoenix Wright and the many other lawyers of the Ace Attorney universe deal with reprehensible criminals all the time, so it should be no surprise that the works by fans have villains who are just as evil.
Edited by TurlesTheVegan on Apr 10th 2024 at 4:30:07 AM
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
Gone with Skunk
In honor of Akira Toriyama
Yes to Turles' header for Ace Attorney fanworks, assuming we don't just merge it into the main AA page under Fanworks, like I thought we were doing. ACW, I'll admit, when you said "there are 8 monsters" I thought that was the original page. Then I thought "wait a minute... didn't Ace Attorney have about 6 from the main series, three from spinoffs and a couple from other sources. Unless one of them was cut. The Rhea Witts quote sounds more threatening honestly.
I present new evidence in regards to two examples:
1. Baltro (Unicorn Overlord). Additional victims. Additional victims of his possession spell include Bruno and in the bad ending Scarlett (this one an act of trolling by the devs on players who try to pull a Tears of the Kingdom style speed run).
Baltro is also responsible for ruining Ghislain’s life via his mystical plagues, driving him and Tatiana to drastic measures, eventually causing Ghislain’s death and Tatiana’s hatred of Alain.
2. Galdera (Octopath Traveler): Galdera is implied to also be indirectly responsible for the events of ‘’Live A Live’’ by the cross over event in Champions of the Continent. Basically, Live A Live and Octopath are in the same multiverse. Odio is connected to Galdera in an unknown way.
The events are canon to Live A Live in the way Confession of the Golden Witch (Umineko No Naku Koro Ni) is: a side story used as a Mind Screw Driver to explain unanswerd questions.
Edited by magnum12 on Apr 10th 2024 at 6:06:56 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I personally feel that the works could be arranged by Franchise-Wide ones and ones based on a specific game like other fan works pages. Do you mind if it's changed to be that way?
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Be my guest. Though, thing is, it seems like most of them are more or less based on a single game.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
Why is The Torrential Turnabout on the fan games page when the other fan games are on the page?
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Thank you
Edited by LarryT on Apr 11th 2024 at 6:37:07 AM
In honor of Akira Toriyama
It's a crossover work with Zero Escape and Danganronpa.
Edited by TurlesTheVegan on Apr 11th 2024 at 3:26:43 PM
Quite unpredictable
Did some digging on the Pretty Cure stuff, and it looks like there's some weird Continuity Snarl going on here.
The continuities are mostly separate, but for stuff like The Movie, Cures from multiple seasons will sometimes join forces (which we can only assume isn't meant to be canon, like the Pokémon films).
In HuGtto! Pretty Cure, all of the other Cures are summoned to the HuGtto! universe from their own lives, which could either mean they all exist in different continuities within a greater Pretty Cure multiverse, or it could mean they all exist in the same continuity.
Additionally, there is often a little fourth wall break where a Cure from one season will "pass the torch" to a Cure from the next season in the very last episode of that season/continuity. Not sure if this is merely a symbolic gesture or meant to be part of canon, though.
If all the Pretty Cure series take place in the same continuity/universe, this series has a jacked heinous standard where the baseline for any Big Bad would be trying to destroy the Earth or conquer the galaxy or something, and Northa would be too small-potatoes to count. But if they take place in separate continuities, I'm fine with keeping Northa but might want to propose adding Pisard to the list once I finish Futari wa.
Are there any Pretty Cure experts here who would like to weigh in?
"I don't have the power to reverse my destiny. [...] But I'm not going to turn away from my fate anymore." — Kiriya
Goku Black
Here from°
°
Now tbf I'm more familiar with Precures brother shows but they all do the same thing. Good luck trying to fit these together. Since the writers don't.
Quite unpredictable
Alright, in that case, Northa's a keep and I have a proposal thread to write for Pisard as soon as I finish Futari wa (and possibly Max Heart as it's a direct sequel and can impact heinous standards).
Sorry for the confusion!
Edited by carduinal-cyn on Apr 11th 2024 at 1:35:34 AM
"I don't have the power to reverse my destiny. [...] But I'm not going to turn away from my fate anymore." — Kiriya
pronounced 'Scraggle'
Okay, keep Northa, then.
@Galdera: We're absolutely sure this is canon to Live a Live and not just a weird one-off crossover? I'm happy to update Galdera's writeup if it is, but we've had strange, ambiguously canon crossovers in the past (with Bravely Default, for instance).
If it is canon, and as I'm unfamiliar with the Live a Live universe, what extra additions would that entail?
Edited by Starkrafty on Apr 11th 2024 at 7:19:24 AM
Watch for the sign of the Saint — he will be back!
Caesar
Ok, Fright Krewe discussion time has rolled around. Will have some posts coming between myself and my bois Starkrafty and therealjackieboy on the proposal thread shortly, but firstly? Big Bad Belial needs a hefty rewrite to encompass how much worse he got:
- Belial is a demon who feeds on fear, and serves as the most recurring foe the Krewe face. Centuries ago, Belial manipulated the victimized human Pierre D'Rousseau into making a deal for power; Belial proceeded to lock Pierre inside his own mind and take control of the man's body for his own use. Belial caused a number of tragedies so he could consume the terror of innocents—from an outbreak of yellow fever that killed thousands, to burning down a schoolhouse—and when a headmistress tried to interfere, Belial punished her by removing her mouth and trapping her ghost in the school. Revived present day, Belial allies with Mayor Furst to create a supernatural race war, planning to wipe out both sides in a brutal fashion, while getting many innocents caught in the crossfire. Orchestrating Furst's death when he outlives his usefulness, Belial then summons a variety of horrific demons to endanger vast swathes of people, and often manipulates hapless humans into helping him along. After corrupting and toying with the Krewe for the whole show, Belial forces them to destroy the Tree of Life to unleash his full power, at which point he traps them all in their greatest fears—ranging from dying alone, to being forced to choose between saving their mother or their baby sibling. Belial ultimately plans to trap all the citizens of New Orleans into unending nightmares for him to feast on and spread his influence worldwide.
Keep Northa
Cut Skunk
RJ Savoy
YMMV.Planescape Torment has a CM entry that as far as I can tell was never vetted:
- Complete Monster: "The Practical Incarnation" is a former incarnation of the Nameless One. Combining a wicked intellect with a lack of morals, the Practical enslaved an adventuring party to him, most notably by convincing a githzerai to follow him based on a religion the Practical invented. The Practical manipulated and murdered countless people, but the worst was what he did to the one woman who deeply loved him: after winning her love, he murdered her so her ghost, bound to the material plane by that love, would remain as a guide for future incarnations should the Practical's quest fail. At the end, the Practical confronts the current incarnation of the Nameless One and attempts to absorb him into the Practical's own consciousness along with all the others so the Practical can achieve his goals.
Now to be clear, Practical does all these awful things, but he has one redeeming trait that I think disqualifies him: he did it all to end the curse he is under, one that hits not just him but also many innocent people across the planes. It is possible to read purely selfish motivations into him, but the conversation he has left me with the impression that he is on a mission, knows well the stakes, and believes himself the only one capable of fulfilling it. I'd like others who played the game to weigh in.
Stories don't tell us monsters exist; we knew that already. They show us that monsters can be trademarked and milked for years.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Having also played it a long while ago, when does he ever say he wants to end the curse and get his mortality back so he can save the lives who are taken by the curse? I do not remember him saying anything of the sort.
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Voting for GTA quote is here.
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
The entry is on Monster.Dungeons And Dragons so I’m guessing it was approved
In honor of Akira Toriyama
Jogo
Miraculous Ladybug: Lila Rossi and Miraculous Ladybug: Chloé Bourgeois have been merged back into Miraculous Ladybug: Villains, so I'll remove the links to their pages from Monster: Fan Works. Before I do that, however, I have a small adjustment to the first sentence of Lila's Uncertain Future version, alongside fome extra potholes.
- Uncertain Future: Hawk Moth
—here Lila Rossi—, real name Lila Rossi, manages to be even worse than in canon. Lila willingly helped Gabriel in his crusade, eventually figuring out who he was. When Gabriel's final attack failed, Lila betrayed and killed him and stole the Butterfly Miraculous. After stealing the grimoire, Lila became obsessed with gaining the power of the Ladybug and Black Cat Miraculouses to make herself a god. Lila started eliminating all the people that could oppose her, first Nathalie, and then her own mother, and finally Chloé. When the mayor died, Lila used it to akumatize hundreds of people at once. Her attack killed most of the heroes, and she destroyed the Lucky Charm to prevent most of them from coming back. Lila would then send her akumatized army to ravage the city, destroying it and leaving almost nobody alive. When Lila got her hands on Viperion, she tortures him until she can akumatize him. During the final battle, she reveals her final plan, to set off a massive explosion that would destroy all of France, which would destroy everything but the Miraculouses and herself.
