Inanimate Objects and Locations in Character Pages

Random battle droids actually have a lot of personality. Most of them aren't unique characters though, so they'd share a single character article if anything.

Edited by Karxrida on Aug 18th 2021 at 1:32:16 AM

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?

The question is shifting from the OP. OP was asking if all objects/locations can be treated as characters with their own subpages as part of the Characters/ namespace or a similar namespace. This is not a good idea because you wouldn't be sorting the work's tropes based on the tropes; you'd be sorting them on some other phenomenon and we already have enough problems with people not sorting characterization tropes correctly.

The current question is "If a character is also an object/location, can they go into the Characters/ namespace?", to which the answer is yes.

The whole point is that the division is based on how the work presents the character. Wilson from Cast Away is a great example of an inanimate character, but the Infinity Gems are not. Wilson is characterized by the efforts of the main character to have a social connection, but the Mind Stone is just a MacGuffin that sits there while other people react around it. The Mind Stone isn't a character, the Dark World isn't a character, Wakanda isn't a character.

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I can just about see splitting Settings off from the other tropes but... (1) We have enough problems with people shoehorning Characterization Tropes, so I don't want to add to the mess. (2) Most settings only collect a few tropes. (3) Most works only have one to three settings anyway, affecting very little of the article's size.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

Ok, a very practical question.

If a signature item is definitely not a character (i.e. it has no personality, no voice etc) but it is directly tied to a single character, and tropes associated with this item are listed on the Character Specific Page, but in a separate subfolder, what do we do with these tropes?

• Option A: Remove the separate folder, move the tropes to the main section on the same Character Sheet and list them alphabetically
• Option B: Remove the separate folder, move the tropes to the main work / franchise page and list them alphabetically
• Option C: Keep the separate folder on the Character Sheet.

I assume Option A is the correct one. Can any of the mods give the definitive answer?

Some examples:

• MCU: Thor 's weapons (tropes like Ancestral Weapon, Named Weapons etc)
• MCU: Spider-Man 's suits (tropes like Beta Outfit, Cheap Costume, Fingerless Gloves etc)
• MCU: Falcon 's drone (tropes like Attack Drone, I Call It "Vera" etc)

MCU has a lot of such subfolders.

Edited by Asherinka on Aug 18th 2021 at 1:07:11 PM

It depends on the trope and the size of the subpage on that character. Sam Wilson has his own page, so Redwing could go in a folder separate from the tropes depicting Sam. But the shoehorning issue is showing up again. We shouldn't be putting Clip Its Wings on his character page because it doesn't characterize him. It was simply something that happened to him and belongs on the article for the work where it happened. I Call It "Vera" is a type of naming convention, which makes it characterization, but We Hardly Knew Ye isn't adding character to Redwing, it is again simply something that happens to them and belongs on the article for the work where it happened.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

I think this issue exists because Character subpages are the only pages that allow for any sort of alternative organization of tropes that isn't Alphabetical. If we moved all of the infinite gem tropes to the MCU main Franchise page or across the multiple works that appear, it would make the process of searching for them much more bothersome to find, if I want to only read about them.

I should note, the Character Sheets page's description is actually rather broad and mentions they can be for "characters, races, factions, etc.", and indeed many character pages for works get creative and trope the characters "moveset", "kit", "species", "class" or "factions". This is especially common in big franchises and videogames (For example: Characters.Monster Hunter Hunters, Characters.Fire Emblem Character Classes, Characters.Final Fantasy XIV Tank Classes, Characters.Star Wars Planets And Races, DragonAge.Dragon Age Organizations, Characters.Mass Effect Race Tropes Citadel Council, Game of Thrones - Westeros).

I can see why Characters namespace wouldn't be the best place for these pages to be, but I do see the value in their existence.

1. As mentioned here, the Characters.Metal Slug page got a few folders removed with edit reason "Non-sentient inanimate objects aren't supposed to be on character pages". While I agree for Slug vechicles (if possible, there could be a General folder for the protagonists), should the bosses have been cut? I've thought bosses can be characterized with boss tropes, even if they're just machines (like Final Fantasy VII Bosses and Star Fox: Bosses)

2. These mecha tropes may need a review under this policy and be cut, moved to series page or merged with the team that pilots them.

• MEGAS at Megas XLR
• Assist Weapons at Denkō Chōjin Gridman
• SAA Units at Ultraman Z
• Rainbow Ressha & Ressha Giants at Ressha Sentai ToQger
• Kaizoku Sentai Gokaiger Mecha

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup

Characters.Doctor Who has the TARDIS, even though that's just ambiguously sentient.

For every low there is a high.

The TARDIS is a bit of a special case since for all intents and purposes it is treated like a character. It's definitely a living being and, as you said, might be completely sentient. I feel like that makes it enough of a character to be troped.

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

I am fine with important, non-sentient objects (things such as Wilson are treated as characters though) related to characters being given their own folders in character pages, as long as they have some kind of uniqueness, for convenience's sake. Putting a character's car that isn't treated as its own character is unnecessary, but if said car is emblematic to the franchise and have enough peculiarities to be written beyond, let's say, Cool Car, I'm down for it.

Edited by good-morning on Nov 16th 2021 at 10:06:07 AM

oh hey how are you doing?

It's sort of like the difference between Chitty Chitty Bang Bang and the DeLorean. Both are iconic cars, but Chitty Chitty Bang Bang is portrayed as being somewhat sentient, and the DeLorean is just a time-traveling car. If the object is portrayed as being a character in the narrative I say it counts. So I'd agree with adding Wilson but not an ordinary volleyball. Same with Plank from Ed, Edd N' Eddy.

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

So where do tropes for the story's settings fall under?

Would it be appropriate to give folders for say Beach City from Steven Universe or Runeterra from League of Legends?

Character Specific Page cleanup

Those should just be on the main page. Not everything needs to be categorized.

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

Thinking about Star Wars – Outer Rim Territories and its subpages and don't understand why planets are treated like characters. Some don't even have 3 or more tropes to them.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup

That's a decent necro. If this still an issue, then I'm laying down the law: locations are not characters, not unless they are Genius Loci or something equivalent. Full stop, done, end of argument.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

What if a page is troping the population of the planet in general?

oh hey how are you doing?

You mean the "planet" is being troped for the characteristics of its populace, like it's a Planet of Hats? The category or group being troped would be the planet's population, which would be expressed differently.

Take Vulcan. It is home to Vulcans, who all wear the specific hat of being extremely logical. So the Characters page might describe "Vulcans" as a general category, not "Vulcan". The planet does not have characterization tropes; its people do.

Edited by Fighteer on Feb 4th 2022 at 3:42:22 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

That turned out very vague because I was getting sleepy. I've meant to ask what to do with all these Star Wars planets, bring them to Characters Page Cleanup?

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup

^I would say so.

Reviving this again with Characters.Pokemon Types, which for the most part describe not characterization but specific moves. Ingame types are closer to descriptors than something like character classes or species that can be generalized.

These aren't actual character groups, so I don't think these are needed. These pretty much circumvent the "no general example" rule by talking about multiple characters when not all of them apply to many examples mentioned. The types may be described in some other way since there's a lot, similar to how UsefulNotes.Yu Gi Oh explains the mechanics.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup

A useful notes page to describe their uses and effectiveness sounds good?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

Hmm...let's bump that question to UN cleanup first.

Why would we make a Useful Notes article about fictional creatures? That's precisely the opposite of what it's for.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

Years ago, I saw a TLP draft for location subpages as a counterpart to character subpages, but I don't know what happened to it.

By "character subpages" you mean Character-Specific Pages?

For locations we have Genius Loci and Setting as a Character. Companion Cube can be used as objects. Not all of these warrant to be put at Characters/ though.

Edited by Amonimus on Apr 13th 2022 at 8:39:12 PM

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup

That's not what I meant. From what I remember, the idea was that works could have subpages that listed locations, similar to the already-existing Characters/ pages.